All ins - Page 2

On September 23 2009 01:56 StarN wrote:
Yeah, I never get all-ined anymore (mostly in PvZ) because I keep my scouting probe alive long enough. No zerg in their right mind All-Ins against a protoss who knows how to scout well.

- 3 hatch speedlings
- 2 hatch muta
- 2 hatch hydra bust
- 2 hatch lurker drop

On September 23 2009 02:28 Auhsoj wrote:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=5760108f6bb6319b41446e35a78dc463e04e75f6e8ebb871 These are my last 6 games. I think 1 the guy leaves early, u guys judge.

chill thats a deal

On September 23 2009 01:52 Kwark wrote:
Allins are generally not blind. They'll scout you out and go "he's weak to X, I'm gonna do X" and then go allin with that. Which is sensible because doing it halfassed would be utterly pointless when they know what they're doing. Nobody in their right mind is going to go "I could kill him with a timing attack now if I make units but if I kill him with a timing attack now I'll still only be on 2 bases when he types gg, I better make a few less units and take a 3rd, just to be safe". That's really, really counter intuitive. These players are better than you and they're killing you because you're a D+ player and not very good at Starcraft.

On September 23 2009 02:31 Chill wrote:

I get home from work around 8:00 EST. When can you play?

Kwark there's not going to be time, sorry. I barely have time to play SC these days but if you ever see me streaming just message me.

On September 23 2009 02:08 redtooth wrote:
wait... what? please explain how you continue to scout when the zerg goes 9pool speed (fairly common opening, personal favorite as well). also share how you figure out which of the following all-ins the Z is using after you've lost your probe.your probe is guaranteed to die before you can see which of those the Z is going. you could also cannon up like a madman and prepare for all of them (4 at front, 2 at natural, 2 at main) but then you're behind when the zerg doesn't go all-in. i'm not saying its impossible to counter the all-in but your statement about no zerg going all-in against a "protoss who scouts well" is ludacris.

On September 23 2009 02:08 redtooth wrote:
wait... what? please explain how you continue to scout when the zerg goes 9pool speed (fairly common opening, personal favorite as well). also share how you figure out which of the following all-ins the Z is using after you've lost your probe.your probe is guaranteed to die before you can see which of those the Z is going. you could also cannon up like a madman and prepare for all of them (4 at front, 2 at natural, 2 at main) but then you're behind when the zerg doesn't go all-in. i'm not saying its impossible to counter the all-in but your statement about no zerg going all-in against a "protoss who scouts well" is ludacris.

On September 23 2009 01:20 crucifix wrote:

Scout? Pool first, be smart.

On September 23 2009 02:08 redtooth wrote:
wait... what? please explain how you continue to scout when the zerg goes 9pool speed (fairly common opening, personal favorite as well). also share how you figure out which of the following all-ins the Z is using after you've lost your probe.your probe is guaranteed to die before you can see which of those the Z is going. you could also cannon up like a madman and prepare for all of them (4 at front, 2 at natural, 2 at main) but then you're behind when the zerg doesn't go all-in. i'm not saying its impossible to counter the all-in but your statement about no zerg going all-in against a "protoss who scouts well" is ludacris.

On September 23 2009 02:49 FyRe_DragOn wrote:


you send out a second probe while your 1st probe is busy running around in the zergs base to a hidden location, then sneak it into his base again after his lings are away at a good time to see what hes up to. Also

-3hatch speedlings you did see a 3rd hatch going down and when your 2nd probe goes in you see alot of lings..:p I hardly ever see this anymore though, i guess because wallins are better now
-2hatch muta u notice his gas timing and if he makes a 3rd hatchery or not..if he starts mining gas again right away and does not make a third hatch...hm..
-2 hatch hydra bust same thing xcept that he will have a hydralisk den + a few hydras when your 2nd probe runs into his base
-2hatch lurker drop pretty much the same thing as 2hatch muta, you counter it in almost the same way as well

Basically if you see a 3rd hatch going down you will not have to worry about anything threatening your main base until after you have scouted with your 1st corsair or zlot rush. Your wallin may need a few additional cannons though if he does 3hatch ling or hydra break, which you find out with your 2nd probe. If he did 2hatch, your 2nd probe will see the difference so if its lair tech u need 2 cannons in your main + corsairs building and 3cannons at your nat. add another in your main and another in your nat after your corsair finishes as money permits. This will prevent any kind of mutalisk attack killing your main, or allin muta/ling attack killing your nat. (assuming you have zlots at your nat to help out as well) A 2hatch lurker build is defended pretty much the same way, with slightly different cannon placement, and a followup of robotics instead of citadel. Sair/reaver is the most effective build against zerg cheesey play because it gives u corsairs w/ 1+(rapes mutalisks, good scouting, can intercept drops) reavers (good at defence sitting behind cannons) and obs (nullifies lurker drops w/ the reavers.) 2hatch hydralisk is defended by making 1000 cannons at your nat and teching to templars.

On September 23 2009 02:49 StarN wrote:

if I see that he's getting speed I'll immediately throw out a second probe and hide it somewhere in the map. and if it's a map like destination where you can easily find out where his 3rd is, I'll try to catch if he made a 3rd hatch somewhere. If he's staying on 2 bases then you can be pretty certain he's going an all-in of some sort, although they could just be doing some weird build order (in PvZ).

I'll usually play a safe defensive game, since if the zerg doesn't do damage with any of the above build orders you mentioned, then he won't be able to keep up economically into the mid-late game.