• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:48
CEST 21:48
KST 04:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL72
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Server Blocker
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Script to open stream directly using middle click ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 684 users

[SC][Help] Starting Over

Blogs > Musoeun
Post a Reply
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
September 05 2009 17:10 GMT
#1
WARNING: If you don't want to hear about, deal with reading, or help with a D- player's issues, stop reading now and go do something you want to do. I don't want to scroll past your "omg you suck stop whining" replies, and you don't want to be BM like that. I hope.

We now return you your irregularly scheduled blog post. Thank you for your patience.

So, as mentioned above, I'm currently a D- player. I don't play very regularly, I seem to have lost whatever feel I ever had for the game, and frankly I'm frustrated. Furthermore, I don't have that much time to practice. So, I am going to provide a long-winded description of the situation, and then ask a few simple questions. Deal?

Long-Winded Description
A. The unimportant (read: personal) part. Being an account of my history with Starcraft and reasons for failure at it.
+ Show Spoiler +
There once was a teenager growing up in a family which had decided that video games were somewhere between "evil" and a waste of time. Naturally, he was interested in them. For some reason the family had always had a computer even though video games were bad, and after playing Starcraft at a friend's house, he went out and bought the game. Which he got away with somehow, probably because he was the family's computer "expert" and only played late at night when the homework was done.

At some point he ran across battlereports.com and eventually heard of the pro scene. Boxer vs joyo on Paradoxxx, the iloveoov goes valks vs YellOw game, Boxer vs Legionnaire on whatever that map is called - these were the games that introduced me to pro starcraft. Unfortunately, the more I watched and read, the less I played. My previously (then) D+ish skill (I could 9/10 gate!) disappeared.

Then came college. Oops. I'm a nerd at heart and like knowing stuff, so between that and a girlfriend and sort of having a social life, the Starcraft sort of got dropped. That, and all the other SC players I knew were either money-mappers or worse than me (really small college), and I had already had dislike of playing either type bred into me.

A year ago - well, 16 months - I graduated college, and with a little free time looking for a job, started playing again, started reading teamliquid, and got overwhelmed. Stork? Flash? Bisu? Who were these people? I sort of remembered sAviOr, but as I was a Protoss player, it wasn't a fond memory. At any rate, I began working a little bit, mostly on macro. I bumped my previously 45-ish APM up to about 60. I learned basic Protoss macro (I could 10/15 gate semi-successfully and do a decent FE). I hit D+.

Then I got a job - with long hours. I got interested in Diplomacy, found an online site, and wasted a lot of time scheming there. I watched a bunch of anime. When I was involved with Starcraft, I was watching - or discussing - not playing. That's been the case for about the last year, and I've returned more thoroughly than ever to the ranks of the D-, especially with my (misguided?) attempt to switch to Terran.

Right now it's not that I can't read a guide thread. There's this problem. As far as I can tell, all these guides are written with the premise, "Be competent, and have nothing else to focus on. Now go spend a lot of time playing, and this will help you get better." But guess what? Today this game is way too complicated to pick up by "just playing a lot", especially when I don't have the time to "just play a lot".


B. The Pertinent Information

So after all that I'm a D- player, with about 60-70 APM and very little playing time. If I were to become really dedicated, I could put in two hours, maybe, four or five days a week, maybe. But I don't want to remain incompetent forever.

There's one further consideration that might help you answer: my preferred play-style. Tn chess, I call myself a tactical player because I prefer focus on short-term goals rather than trying to guide the overall flow of the game. Of course, I've also played chess long enough and seriously enough that my understanding of that metagame is good enough to let me do this relatively safely. I can play a standard opening and adapt as needed - but this is something I distinctly lack when it comes to Starcraft.

About the only thing I can say here is that (as much as possible in this macro age) I prefer low-econ play, as it keeps the equation simple enough for me to deal with. Give my opponent three bases, and he wins on the basis of my indecision (and poor macro).

Right now, see, every time I play I lose badly, and while I can look at the replay and sort of know why I lost, I don't know what I should do instead.

Simple Questions
1. Which race should I focus on?
2. What are the best 2 or 3 basic builds to focus on for each matchup with that race?
3. Give me the top 3 things to work on and the best way to practice each.

And the (important) one that's not so simple:

How do I go about learning the metagame? Not just "knowing", being able to follow a pro game, but really learning, being able to recognize stuff myself when playing. In chess, I played through tons of high-level games. A reasonable corollary would seem to be watching a lot of replays, but how do you watch a replay to actually learn? There's no way to "set up the board" and play out the possible variations, that I know of, and I'm not good enough to do it in my head.

Thanks for the help!

**
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
OreoBoi
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada1639 Posts
September 05 2009 17:44 GMT
#2
1. Given the fact that you prefer one base play, I would suggest you play Terran. However, you should learn to expand as fast as possible, because I think that that is neccessary in starcraft these days. However, playing Terran requires you to have higher apm, but I think that you can improve that by playing. Two hours, four or five days a week should be enough practice time to improve, you won't be a great player, but I think you can do well if you keep it up.

2. Against zerg, probably learn to mech. Its easier to learn than medic marine builds are and I think it requires less apm (I don't play terran however). Also I think low (D/D-) zergs are really bad at dealing with mech. For example, I'm so bad at dealing with mech that on destination, I will gas steal every time.
Against Protoss, I guess you could 2fac. But I think seige expand or FD are better builds and will help you to learn to expand. I think try FD first, it lets you put some early pressure on the protoss, and also expand. Again I'm a zerg player, so listen to other people's opinions as well.

3.
1. The first thing is definetly expanding. Learn when to expand and where you should expand.
2. Learn macro, at low levels, you can have poor micro as long as you have good macro. I can suck ass with defilers as long as I'm on 4 base and can make large numbers of ultraling. Try and take things to the late game so that you can work on macro.
3. Learn Build orders, it will help you work on your play. Don't be like me and try to cheese or use stupid build orders. Cheese is fine once in a while, but you don't improve a lot by cheesing.

To learn the metagame:
Watch progamers, watch their build orders, watch their unit composition, watch their timings.
Get as many replays as you can. When you watch a replay, don't just watch the race that you play, watch how that player reacts to what they see. For example, how they respond to early aggression, how they respond to fast expansions. Learn how they adapt to what the other player does.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
DaveTesta Events
18:00
Kirktown Ready Room #3
davetesta145
Liquipedia
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 1
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
ZZZero.O229
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 139
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 229
HiyA 106
LaStScan 77
Terrorterran 24
Dota 2
qojqva2699
monkeys_forever217
syndereN186
League of Legends
Grubby4229
Dendi1007
Counter-Strike
fl0m1768
Stewie2K485
flusha452
Foxcn393
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor795
Other Games
B2W.Neo1377
ToD133
Hui .120
Sick74
Pyrionflax73
mouzStarbuck66
Trikslyr60
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick51253
StarCraft 2
angryscii 39
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 201
• printf 70
• StrangeGG 55
• tFFMrPink 19
• Legendk 12
• OhrlRock 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21043
League of Legends
• Doublelift2087
• Jankos1991
Other Games
• imaqtpie1875
• Shiphtur371
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 12m
RSL Revival
14h 12m
Classic vs Clem
FEL
19h 12m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
22h 12m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.