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So after almost ten years of vigorous service, i have decided to make my K-7 500mhz retire and this means i'm making another comp.
Just wanted to know your advices guys.
I want:
- To play Bw and SC2 ( a lot ) without lag.
- Poker Softwares
- Films. ( Need a good screen )
- Some FPS + oldies games.
Budget:
< 700 euros with screen
So my config so far:
Screen:
Samsung P2350:
I have read several tests and it seem it is the best screen i can get for 170 euros.
My only problem is the 16 : 9 ratio for bw.
I'm used to 4 : 3 for bw and i tried 16 : 10 for UrT and i liked it.
Any experiences with bw and 16 : 9 ?
Proc:
Hmmm Phenom x3 720 BE
or
Phenom x4 955 BE
Don't really know if the extra core is worth the + 60 euros ...
Disk:
Caviar Blue 640Go. I have read stuff and it seems it the best thing i can get ( for this price ).
Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P
That was the general advice i got on another forum.
Seems to be a good and cheap motherboard.
Mem
4GO DDR3
Case:
Antec NSK4480B alim 380W
Or
Antec Three Hundred + Corsair VX550W
Again it was the general advice but i still don't know if the extra space and power of the Three Hundred is worth it :o
GFX card:
Hmmm
HD4850 or GTS250
I don't really know...
I doubt i should put more money to get an HD4870 GSE Vapor-X / HD4890 1Gb / GTX260+ because Dx11 is coming anyway ...
Thoughts ?
Btw i will try to get a free Vista licence with MSDNAA and i will test Ubuntu with my old comp 
 
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I'm assuming you're talking about the Phenom 2 and the the regular old Phenom
If you want to cut some money off of your CPU, you can go for the AMD Phenom ii x2 but that's only like 10 USD (don't know euro sorry) and then you can try to unlock the other two cores if you get lucky.
and when in doubt, get more power supply :D
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On August 26 2009 22:43 b3h47pte wrote:
I'm assuming you're talking about the Phenom 2 and the the regular old Phenom
If you want to cut some money off of your CPU, you can go for the AMD Phenom ii x2 but that's only like 10 USD (don't know euro sorry) and then you can try to unlock the other two cores if you get lucky.
and when in doubt, get more power supply :D
I have read stuff about this. It seems so unreal o,o
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it's possible. AMD is pretty much using extra x4's to make the x2 and the x3 and sometimes they aren't faulty ones either (but most likely they are) so all you need is to get a motherboard that can support that feature (google it) and wham! you have a x4 for the price of an x2 :o
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the 955 is a lot better than the 720 but i dont think you'll really notice for what you're doing. might be able to shave off a couple seconds with your poker database software though.
also the core i5s are rumored to come out in about a week (early sept) which should really obliterate the phenom ii lineup. that means two things: a) you want to buy an i5 (not really mobos will be pretty pricey) b) AMD is going to slash prices more (fuck yeah)
at the current moment though AMD is supposedly providing really good cpu + mobo combos to move as many units as possible before the i5s arrive.
oh yeah there's also the 945 which is nearly the same as the 955 except it's not BE so not as good for overclocking but there's a pretty large price difference for a negligible drop in performance (.2ghz)
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On August 26 2009 22:47 b3h47pte wrote:
it's possible. AMD is pretty much using extra x4's to make the x2 and the x3 and sometimes they aren't faulty ones either (but most likely they are) so all you need is to get a motherboard that can support that feature (google it) and wham! you have a x4 for the price of an x2 :o
Imba ^^
On August 26 2009 22:53 mahnini wrote:
the 955 is a lot better than the 720 but i dont think you'll really notice for what you're doing. might be able to shave off a couple seconds with your poker database software though.
yea it is like 10% better but for 60 euros arggggggg.
It seems that both will be fine for SC2 and most of the current FPS so it is ok for me.
On August 26 2009 22:53 mahnini wrote:
also the core i5s are rumored to come out in about a week (early sept) which should really obliterate the phenom ii lineup. that means two things: a) you want to buy an i5 (not really mobos will be pretty pricey) b) AMD is going to slash prices more (fuck yeah)
at the current moment though AMD is supposedly providing really good cpu + mobo combos to move as many units as possible before the i5s arrive.
Eh interesting maybe i will wait a bit more for the proc.
On August 26 2009 22:53 mahnini wrote:
oh yeah there's also the 945 which is nearly the same as the 955 except it's not BE so not as good for overclocking but there's a pretty large price difference for a negligible drop in performance (.2ghz)
Gonna check the prices/tests because i'm still too noob / uninterested to try overclocking.
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Screen: That monitor should be fine for bw and sc2. For bw, you kept set up the monitor scaling so that its 4:3 (with black boxes on the sides).
Processor: Wait for i5 to come out, and then wait for the motherboard prices to drop. If you can't wait, phenom II s are excellent.
HD: I'd recommend a faster drive like the caviar black or the 7200.12 but it's not necessary.
RAM: No point getting DDR3 with Phenom II, you should be fine with good ol DDR2-800 or 1066. Of course, if you wait for i5 then you'll be getting DDR3.
Case: Either of those cases will work, but see if you can get a free shipping deal if possible, it saves about 20 US dollars here. You also may want to check out some Coolermaster mid towers.
VideoCard: Get the 4850, will perform exceptionally well for SC2, and is quite cheap. As you said, with DX11 Cards around the corner, it may be wise to wait, (if you're already waiting for i5 mobo prices to drop that is)
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I wanted a screen with good colours / good blacks / good reactivity and the P2350 seems to be the best around 170-200 euros.
I will spend lot of time playing bw/Sc2/FPS/Poker/watching movies so i need a good quality screen even if it is more expensive.
Also 2ms > 5ms
On August 26 2009 23:35 petzergling wrote:
Advice on video memory/video card/processor
Don't go up 1 level for 50+ euro. Whats on the market right now on sale is still fucking amazing deals, and unless you plan on keeping the computer for 6+ years I wouldn't bother. Spend that money on other shit
You are right but on the other hand my last comp lasted like 9 years :D
But i think i will get a x4 ( non BE like Mahini said ) or a x3 BE or wait a bit. I'm reading more stuff just to be sure.
I think the x4 BE is definitly too expensive for me right now.
On August 26 2009 23:35 petzergling wrote:Also take the following into consideration if you haven't already: -Good printer/scanner. -Second monitor (dual monitors is better then an extra core or stick of memory by farrrrrrrrrrrr) -Nice sound system or speakers http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826249006 <-- really, really comfortable headset. -SC Mouse/keyboard -Power supply and cd drives
Printer / second monitor will come later when i will get more money.
I Will buy decent speakers and a new random keyboard though.
My old logitech mouse will be fine.
The first ANTEC model has a 380W power supply. CD drive is around 25-30 euro.
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Its better to just invest in a case without PSU and then buy your own PSU after. In rare cases (probably wont but might happen) youd have different pin connector for the mobo and will have to go through extra trouble getting them to work. 380w might not be enough or is cutting way too close for comfort, try at least 450 or 500w please. (another reason to get your own PSU)
2ms and 5ms makes very little different and since its Samsung, the 2ms will most likely be GTG (Even more likely since they didnt state what it is exactly) and 2ms GTG is a near worthless stat since its just a marketting number.
Have you built your own computer before? Since you are asking about the space and extra power being worth it or not I will assume that you haven't. If you can spend extra money on more room inside your comp (and dont mind a bigger case) then it is definitely worth it since even a mid range card will give you trouble setting up the inside of your case at installation (and more afterward when you're switching parts).
Also I recommend a case with the PSU on the bottom instead of the traditional setup of it being top left of the case, there are reasons for this. With the PSU on the bottom, the motherboard will often be pushed up just enough that your graphic card wont interfere with the cabling of your harddrives, giving you extra space for heat dispersion (harddrives getting too hot can cause catastrophic failures) and room to actually make use of all the slots. (Sometimes the videocard, even a midrange one can be too close to the harddrive bays and the power pin will prevent you from setting up the harddrives correctly and forcing you to bend the cablings around and stuff, its really annoying and bad for the cables). Secondly, the PSU on the bottom might make the power cable to the CPU fan and the Mobo a bit in the way of some other stuff but the unused cables (in a non-modular setup) will just lie on the bottom of the case, out of the way of everything else and you won't have to worry about it getting in the way of the CPU fan and other things.
It is recommended to get an aftermarket CPU cooler and perhaps your own thermal compound to decrease the temperature of your CPU, it is not utmost importance but can only be good so why not?
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I'd go quad core for sure, probably lower clock though to save money. Then overclock it if you want it faster, or even just for the fun of it.
I'd go for 1GB or 1.5GB drive, as they get better price per GB and it is inevitable that you will need more room eventually... better postpone that moment as much as you can. I wouldn't care much for brand or worry about performance, you wouldn't see a difference probably.
+ Show Spoiler +If you actually care for performance then pick up a 64GB or 128GB SSD with the Indilinx controller for an OS and games drive. Not much difference between brands really, probably Patriot's Torqx is the most recommended because of the 10 year warranty and the included 3.5 inch bracket. Its a pricey upgrade but perhaps the most noticeable performance boost besides a video card upgrade.
I'd stick with an AM2+ mobo with DDR2 as it is cheaper and really no performance difference for Phenoms.
Now about the monitor - I would recommend paying the extra for a quality panel instead of the trash that you picked. OK, I might be overreacting some and it might actually turn out to be the best TN panel that there is, but... it is still just TN. Lousy viewing angles and 6-bit colors... even if I don't notice the dithering, just knowing that it's there would ruin it for me, so no thanks.
In the end it's up to you and your wallet though. But even if you decide to go with a TN, at least get a 24 inch with a proper resolution. The 1920x1080 resolution is a bad pick for computers, it doesn't fit any 4:3 resolution well - 1920x1200 fits 1600x1200 perfectly. Its only benefit is for viewing 1080p movies without the tiny black bars, but even then it can be argued that it's better to have some free room for media controls and stuff. For everything else it's clearly better to have more pixels.
Off topic, why do you write "GO" instead of "GB" ?
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I say go with a Calisto proc, much better than the rest of what AMD is offering atm, and $70 cheaper than the e8400 with better specs.
Edit: Also, being an XCLIO fanboy, you should definately check out their cases, especially case w/ power supply deals.
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phenom ii dual cores are far, far slower than e8400. the two aren't really comparable.
also for $20 more than a 3.1ghz dual you can get a 2.8ghz tricore. so i'd say that is better!
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Again thanks for all the advices. I will only get my vista licence in one - two weeks with MSDNAA so it gives me a bit more time to chose the perfect config for my budget.
On August 27 2009 01:30 v[1.8]c wrote:
Its better to just invest in a case without PSU and then buy your own PSU after. In rare cases (probably wont but might happen) youd have different pin connector for the mobo and will have to go through extra trouble getting them to work. 380w might not be enough or is cutting way too close for comfort, try at least 450 or 500w please. (another reason to get your own PSU)
Thanks for the info.
On August 27 2009 01:30 v[1.8]c wrote:
2ms and 5ms makes very little different and since its Samsung, the 2ms will most likely be GTG (Even more likely since they didnt state what it is exactly) and 2ms GTG is a near worthless stat since its just a marketting number.
Yea you are right it is a marketing number and my 2ms > 5ms was just a "caricature". However i read lot of stuff about this screen and the tests and comments say that it is really fast.
On August 27 2009 01:30 v[1.8]c wrote:
Have you built your own computer before? Since you are asking about the space and extra power being worth it or not I will assume that you haven't.
No. The last computer i had was built by my bro 9 years ago ( however i watched him and asked him some questions ).
Since then i have changed Ram, hard drive, power supply, CD driver, and fans by myself so i'm not a complete noob ( i just lack of knowledge about the motherboard but with the help of forums i think i should be able to build my comp alone ).
On August 27 2009 01:30 v[1.8]c wrote:
If you can spend extra money on more room inside your comp (and dont mind a bigger case) then it is definitely worth it since even a mid range card will give you trouble setting up the inside of your case at installation (and more afterward when you're switching parts).
Also I recommend a case with the PSU on the bottom instead of the traditional setup of it being top left of the case, there are reasons for this. With the PSU on the bottom, the motherboard will often be pushed up just enough that your graphic card wont interfere with the cabling of your harddrives, giving you extra space for heat dispersion (harddrives getting too hot can cause catastrophic failures) and room to actually make use of all the slots. (Sometimes the videocard, even a midrange one can be too close to the harddrive bays and the power pin will prevent you from setting up the harddrives correctly and forcing you to bend the cablings around and stuff, its really annoying and bad for the cables). Secondly, the PSU on the bottom might make the power cable to the CPU fan and the Mobo a bit in the way of some other stuff but the unused cables (in a non-modular setup) will just lie on the bottom of the case, out of the way of everything else and you won't have to worry about it getting in the way of the CPU fan and other things.
Okok so i guess the extra space and power are worth the few extras euros 
On August 27 2009 01:30 v[1.8]c wrote:
It is recommended to get an aftermarket CPU cooler and perhaps your own thermal compound to decrease the temperature of your CPU, it is not utmost importance but can only be good so why not?
Interesting, might try this if i have some free time and extra money.
On August 27 2009 01:59 georgir wrote:
I'd go quad core for sure, probably lower clock though to save money. Then overclock it if you want it faster, or even just for the fun of it.
As i said i'm atm still too nub to overclock it but if i have some time to read stuff i might try it.
On August 27 2009 01:59 georgir wrote:I'd go for 1GB or 1.5GB drive, as they get better price per GB and it is inevitable that you will need more room eventually... better postpone that moment as much as you can. I wouldn't care much for brand or worry about performance, you wouldn't see a difference probably. + Show Spoiler +If you actually care for performance then pick up a 64GB or 128GB SSD with the Indilinx controller for an OS and games drive. Not much difference between brands really, probably Patriot's Torqx is the most recommended because of the 10 year warranty and the included 3.5 inch bracket. Its a pricey upgrade but perhaps the most noticeable performance boost besides a video card upgrade.
Well i have currently a 80Go and i don't even use 50% of it lol.
I don't dl a lot of music or films ( mostly listening streams and watching DVD ) also i doubt i will buy tons of new games ( because most are crap ) so a 640Go should be enough by far lol.
Anyway i can always buy another hard drive one or two years later if i start to mass DL.
On August 27 2009 01:59 georgir wrote:
I'd stick with an AM2+ mobo with DDR2 as it is cheaper and really no performance difference for Phenoms.
Yea gotta check this too.
Are the extra euros for the DDR3 ( and the possibility to uppgrade ) worth it.
On August 27 2009 01:59 georgir wrote:
Now about the monitor - I would recommend paying the extra for a quality panel instead of the trash that you picked. OK, I might be overreacting some and it might actually turn out to be the best TN panel that there is, but... it is still just TN. Lousy viewing angles and 6-bit colors... even if I don't notice the dithering, just knowing that it's there would ruin it for me, so no thanks.
In the end it's up to you and your wallet though. But even if you decide to go with a TN, at least get a 24 inch with a proper resolution. The 1920x1080 resolution is a bad pick for computers, it doesn't fit any 4:3 resolution well - 1920x1200 fits 1600x1200 perfectly. Its only benefit is for viewing 1080p movies without the tiny black bars, but even then it can be argued that it's better to have some free room for media controls and stuff. For everything else it's clearly better to have more pixels.
Well. I like FPS and i think ( from what i have heard / read ) the TN are the only decent screens for this kind of games ( or you have to pay a shitload more ). Also the P2350 seems to be really good for its price.
Your comment on the resolution is interesting though. I think i would actually prefer a 16:10 ratio :/
On August 27 2009 01:59 georgir wrote:
Off topic, why do you write "GO" instead of "GB" ?
Well in French this is written like that, didn't know that you should use "GB" in English actually ^^
Doesn't really matter though 
On August 27 2009 04:06 ghermination wrote:
I say go with a Calisto proc, much better than the rest of what AMD is offering atm, and $70 cheaper than the e8400 with better specs.
Edit: Also, being an XCLIO fanboy, you should definately check out their cases, especially case w/ power supply deals.
Don't know both gotta check this. Thanks for the info.
On August 27 2009 04:17 mahnini wrote:
phenom ii dual cores are far, far slower than e8400. the two aren't really comparable.
also for $20 more than a 3.1ghz dual you can get a 2.8ghz tricore. so i'd say that is better!
Well i'm not an expert and most of the things i read come from here. ( French stuff )
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/762-9/athlon-ii-x2-250-phenom-ii-x2-550.html
It seems that the E8400 is between the Phenom II x2 and the x3
( They make an average of the performances in different games / softwares ).
I think the real issue in the AMD vs Intel is the prices. For this kind of "cheap" gaming computer AMD seems to provide the most competitive offers.
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For playing SC on a wide screen monitor you'll be fine as long as you have drivers for your video card with something along the lines of "Maintain Aspect Ratio" which allows the program to choose it's settings so you will be able to play sc in 4:3 with small black bars on the sides.
For my Radeon 4870 the specific settings had to be "Enable GPU Scaling"<<"Maintain Aspect Ratio" using the Catalyst Control Center.
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On August 27 2009 08:41 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 04:17 mahnini wrote:
phenom ii dual cores are far, far slower than e8400. the two aren't really comparable.
also for $20 more than a 3.1ghz dual you can get a 2.8ghz tricore. so i'd say that is better! Well i'm not an expert and most of the things i read come from here. ( French stuff ) http://www.hardware.fr/articles/762-9/athlon-ii-x2-250-phenom-ii-x2-550.htmlIt seems that the E8400 is between the Phenom II x2 and the x3 ( They make an average of the performances in different games / softwares ). I think the real issue in the AMD vs Intel is the prices. For this kind of "cheap" gaming computer AMD seems to provide the most competitive offers.
definitely. i was just comparing the AMD dual core vs intel dual core. the phenom ii 720 is still the best bargain gaming chip available.
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dont buy intel core 2 duo please.
your build looks fine, and I would definitely suggest the antec 300 with the Corsair psu. The case is solid, reliable, and decently roomy. You may want to wait until after i5 like what mahnini said. Chances are many sites will run deals with cpu + mobo that can save you like 10-20 euros.
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Not a bad build to be honest. I will say just stick with 720 BE. That's the current budget gaming chip. It has really taken the crown from E8400.
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I have built the comp this week:
Final config is:
+ Show Spoiler +
Screen:
Samsung P2350:
Proc:
Athlon 620 x4
Disk:
Caviar Blue 640Go.
Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P
Mem
4GO DDR3 G.Skill Ripjaws 12800 ( a bit overkill with this comp lol but life warranty is just so nice)
Case:
Midgard Xigmatek -> BEAUTIFUL
Alim: Corsair 520 Modular
GFX card:
4870 Sapphire 512mb
+ Seven pro.
It was kinda easy to built and i'm kinda happy with the result ( although i need to arrange the cables in the case and put the rheobus ).
I have been trying some basic stuff and it seems that i need to make some changes and dl drivers because for some weird reasons some sequences in 3d mark 2006 are low on FPS and i can only get to 60 fps in UrT ( Q3 mod Wtf ???? ).
Anyway i will use this blog to ask some questions regarding software and games choices.
Ok let's start:
Softwares:
I got some Microsoft stuff thanks to MSDNAA and VLC. i'm looking for free stuff ;( ( not the games lol )
anti vir: -> Avast ?
Firewall: -> ?
More ideas about basic softwares to get ?
Games:
- My favourite RpG and hybrids games are Dx / Torment / BG series:
Should i get:
- Fallout 3, Bioshock ( heard it isn't on SS or Dx level  ), Oblivion, Stalker or the Witcher ? I'm looking for a good scenario and quality action. Dialogs are a plus.
- Is GTA IV really great ? I mean i have played a LOT to GTA 1 and 3 and i won't be interested if it the same thing ...
- I'm looking for a good realistic FPS like Operation Flashpoint. I have to buy ArmA2 right ?
Different recommandations are welcome but i only like quality solo games with a lot of freedom. So no CoD4, respawn vilain and auto-heal k thx.
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I bought a pack with bioshock and Oblivion for 20 euros this afternoon. i'm pretty sure that they aren't great but that makes two cheap benchmarks for my comp lol.
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I'd reccomend aganist your current build.
The anthlon x4 620 is great but it has no large cache it only sets 512kb per core of cache, and depending on the game that can seriously kill your fps potential. A phenom ii x3 710 720 for the same ish price is more stable performance across all games. And rts games is one of those that are more likely to require a larger cache as it does more calculations per a fame then a normal game would.
I'd also suggest getting a corsair 650TX over the 520HX save you money and the 520 is not single rail.
I'd also suggest getting the 5770 it performs right now around the same as a 4870 but given time the drivers will improve and so will the 5770, it also has a whole list of features that the 4870 doesn't have.
Also why are you buying a WD blue 640go drive that is a corporate drive the 640 black is cheap and performs a ways better.
Green= eco friendly drives low power
blue = corporate which is still low power but not as low
black = performance
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Yep, definitely put more into the PSU since that's unlikely to change and a stable PSU = stable system overall.
Don't be cheap, get at least 500W.
Go WD Black or Velociraptor or just get a seagate 7200.12. What is the point of getting the blue?
Seriously if you are thinking of cutting corners due to cost, let me tell ya it's not worth it.
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for 16:10 screens on a decent budget, samsung 2443BW PLUS is the best one out there.
I think it's about 50 euros more tho. It is a fantastic screen.
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Lol dudes read the last post i just build it lol.
Anyway i have played Oblivion and Bioshock tonight and they are both terrible haha.
Jesus Games of the year ???? LOL
Standard seems to be low.
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On October 18 2009 08:53 Boblion wrote:
Lol dudes read the last post i just build it lol.
Anyway i have played Oblivion and Bioshock tonight and they are both terrible haha.
Jesus Games of the year ???? LOL
Standard seems to be low.
...strange. I don't think anyone would say those games are terrible, even if they didn't like them a lot. It's kind of like someone saying "Citizen Kane" is terrible; you might not like it but even haters can't really deny the games were pretty good. I like all the games you like that you listed and I quite enjoyed those 2 games.
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On October 18 2009 17:54 PhailSoBaller wrote:
BOBBY I <3 YOU
me too :p
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On October 18 2009 18:42 NoobsOfWrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2009 08:53 Boblion wrote:
Lol dudes read the last post i just build it lol.
Anyway i have played Oblivion and Bioshock tonight and they are both terrible haha.
Jesus Games of the year ???? LOL
Standard seems to be low. ...strange. I don't think anyone would say those games are terrible, even if they didn't like them a lot. It's kind of like someone saying "Citizen Kane" is terrible; you might not like it but even haters can't really deny the games were pretty good. I like all the games you like that you listed and I quite enjoyed those 2 games.
Well i might have overeacted a bit. They are not absolutely terrible but they are still not great.
Basicly:
Bioshock:
- pros:
Gfx and design, universe is kinda original too.
cons:
Linear ( lol @ follow arrows LOL ). The small levels were clearly designed for console trash.
That makes a cool bench for sure. A great game ? No.
Also i really miss some demembration animations. It's PEGI18 ffs ... ( ok this one was really not important but i felt so bored that i had to try some post mortem experimentations )
Oblivion:
pros: uhhh everything if it wasn't made in a bad way
cons: - Well huge universe but it is empty.
- All the building, dungeons etc look the same.
- All the characters look the same and have 0 charisma -> hard to have motivation for quests
- Dialogs are a joke
- Movements are really ankward.
edit:
- Vilains level scaling
- Can travel everywhere on the map on start.
Jesus i'm still waiting for game who will put Dx to shame... Instead of jerking over the shaders and the AAx8 people working in the game industry should work on good IA algorithms ( yea those in Dx sucked too lol ) and good scenarios/dialogs.
In ten fucking years they have not been able to produce an FPS/RPG hybrid better...
Jesus that's like if broodwar was still the best RTS .. oh wait ....
lol
Fuck overrated new games.
/rant
( I would give a 7/10 to Bioshock max and a 6/10 to Oblivion ).
edit: Also SS2 is way scarier than bioshock :O
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On October 22 2009 04:13 PhailSoBaller wrote:
boblion its me Phail :D
Eh i know :D
I have not Bw installed on my new comp yet ( my bro stole my CD )
Would have been fun to play with you :p
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EPT
