EPT
Warcraft 3............Did you Get it ?!
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intruding
157 Posts
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LeperKahn
Romania1848 Posts
Also, ORC IMBA! Here's his post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87117 | ||
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
It's a bit more complex to understand, but once you do, it makes just as much sense as SC. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
I think having an imba hero like that makes the game more exciting. I love both games (sc and wc3 that is), and playing NE vs ORC is fun because its action packed and you KNOW the blademaster is coming you just don't know if you can stop him. I've never sworn more at any hero. | ||
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illu
Canada2531 Posts
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On August 22 2009 11:18 FragKrag wrote: Orc is imbalanced, and I doubt you could understand the intricacies of Starcraft by watching a few games. WC3 is an OK game, but it just happens to be a bit unbalanced (IN FAVOR OF FUCKING ORC). It's a bit more complex to understand, but once you do, it makes just as much sense as SC. I always heard it was imbalanced towards Night Elf or something. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
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intruding
157 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
also i think a majority of the problem comes from giving every unit a health bar hovering above them covering half the map in health bars not giving you the ability to see anything except crazy colors and parts of units at least from a spectating perspective i've never played wc3 aside from single palyer | ||
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GoSu
Korea (South)1773 Posts
On August 22 2009 11:13 LeperKahn wrote: The Storyteller made a great article on this. He really should be an asset that blizzard uses he is eloquent and has great ideas. Also, ORC IMBA! Here's his post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87117 Orc isnt imba. The BM is. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
Mahnini, once you take the small amount of time to learn what WC3 is like, it will become much, much clearer. I'm sure you weren't able to figure exactly what was happening in a SC game your first 2 or 3 games of watching it. I'm not saying WC3 is a great spectator sport (which it isn't, but it's ok), but SC players don't give it enough time. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On August 22 2009 11:13 LeperKahn wrote: The Storyteller made a great article on this. He really should be an asset that blizzard uses he is eloquent and has great ideas. Also, ORC IMBA! Here's his post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87117 I don't know that I agree with Storyteller about how tension is built. If the audience isn't given adequate information or reason to suspect something, suddenly introducing a brand new element is called a cop out and bad writing. Convenient ways to tie up plot holes. How many times did you watch kid's shows in your youth that would present an unwinnable situation right before commercial break, and then you're like "OOOH MAN, HOW THE HECK DOES HE GET OUT OF THIS??" and it turns out that something completely improbable and unpredictable happens like a brand new character is introduced, or the villain with a gun to the hero's head has a heart attack. Maybe it's just the way he worded it that doesn't sound right to me. A good story leaves the audience wondering what is going to happen next, but gives them a chance to guess right too. Most sports are painfully dull if you don't know anything about the players or the team. If you DO understand the psychology of the players, then yeah, it's really exciting to see if you guessed right, and to see how it will pan out and what guesses you can make on new information. But StarCraft would basically suck if you had no insight into what the players were thinking at the time. That's why replays of strangers are painfully dull, but your own replays with your friends seem like works of art, even if you're observing your most nooby days of SC. The reason it's hard to get into WarCraft III for a lot of people, is we aren't familiar with any of the players. The few of us who know who MooN and Grubby are find their games exciting, but feel bored by other's unless colourful commentary tells us who they are. That said, on topic I don't think WarCraft III is that hard to understand, especially from a spectator's point of view. Just remember that every time a player loses a unit, and gives experience to their opponent, they get farther behind for when the big clash finally comes. | ||
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intruding
157 Posts
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Neon_Monkey
United States270 Posts
And back when I played orc was actually thought of as the weakest race, next to undead. Back then people rarely used the blademaster except maybe vs NE, which was considered a really imba MU anyways so it was never really clear what was ideal. But now Orc seems to dominate and NE to a lesser extent. But before when I played there was still a pretty good distribution of races, but these days it just seems to be all Orc vs Orc and NE vs NE. At least that is what I see whenever I look at the pic for one of the vids on Gom or Jon747's account. Which not only makes it more boring just because of the lack of multiple MU, but double so because they are mirrors. I am kind of wondering why I haven't seen any orc vs NE, though I'm sure I just never looked hard enough. What I mostly hated was the upkeep system. It punishes you for making a large army, and a very large punishment at that. And it makes expansions a lot less appealing and risky so people just tend to not do it...except the last time I watched human vs UD it just seemed like the HU would take 4+ bases with 10000 towers and then mass siege tanks or flying machines after he got 4k gold, which isn't a whole lot more exciting. But SC2 doesn't have such a system, so no matter what I still think it will be a great game...eventually. | ||
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maga33
United States247 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
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uglymoose89
United States671 Posts
On August 22 2009 13:45 GreEny K wrote: "Lurkers rape Zerglings" When the hell has anyone seen a ZVZ that made it to lurker tech? This was awhile ago. | ||
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
if they just redesigned the maps they could easily make maps where the blade isnt so imbal. | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
On August 22 2009 16:05 esla_sol wrote: the map pool is the failure of wc3 if they just redesigned the maps they could easily make maps where the blade isnt so imbal. The bm's power doesn't come from the maps. It comes from his high stats, and his abilities along with his syncing with the orc army. What the BM has is: High attack speed High attack High potential attack (crit strike/WW) A Good Ult Mobility Scouting Decent Mana No other hero in the game can boast that. And then the Shadow Hunter's Hex + Healing Wave and the Raider's Ensnare along with the Speed scroll, and readily available Boots, he becomes nearly invincible, and a hero killing machine. | ||
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
On August 22 2009 13:45 GreEny K wrote: "Lurkers rape Zerglings" When the hell has anyone seen a ZVZ that made it to lurker tech? I should've caught on to that. I skimmed the first post so I might be missing something, or be completely off base, who knows. Although I played starcraft before I played warcraft 3 of course, I never did play sc melee seriously. I played WC3 casually some for a couple years, achieved about a 70% win record. Not that this is that impressive against the average B.net noob. Now I'm currently a D+/C- iccup player. Enough background. Anyway, Warcraft 3 and Starcraft are both great strategy games but they're completely different. Like diablo and WoW, both RPGs but you'd be insane to call them similar games. They have the same basic principles, find the best items, build the best character, but they're played completely differently, like WC3 and SC. Your review of Starcraft is bias. I've played Starcraft with my friends, (I outclass them completely even though I am teh suxorz) and most of them don't grasp the basic concepts of starcraft which I and people on TL take for granted. I don't really know what else to say, if you didn't understand/like how WC3 plays, whatever. As for the balance debate going on, the fact is whoever the better player is, will win at Warcraft as with Starcraft. Whether or not Orc has a slight atvantage over the other races, I really don't know, but no game out there is perfectly balanced. At the moment, the WC3 community would have a very easy argument at saying how imbalanced starcraft is towards protoss judging by the MSL, OSL and gomtv. | ||
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intruding
157 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Its just so... funny! I love how in human earlygame, Militia Men + Towers + Heroes = best way to fight. But the one thing I really didn't like about War 3 was the bad map pool. I really think War 3 could've been a much better Esport game if Map Pools were more diverse. Like what if the first creep you fought are lvl 5 creeps, but drops lvl 1 items? etc etc. About the imbalance in war3, I do sense there is a certain degree of imbalance in War3 more than SC, but it's so hard to say whether it really is an imbalance or not because not all tools were utilized (IN MY PERSPECTIVE, NOTE THIS). In SC, maps play such a huge role in Balance. TvP in Rushour makes Terrans look like the absolute gayest race ever, but in maps like Katrina/Loki/Medusa (all 1.0), Protoss look like the ones with the rape stick. I'm kinda rambling on at this point so I'll put this in a nutshell. Although I do believe BM are gay as hell compared to other heroes, I also do find that War3 mapmakers aren't doing shit to do anything. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On August 23 2009 02:16 MrHoon wrote: Whenever I watched War3, I always loved watching Human players play Its just so... funny! I love how in human earlygame, Militia Men + Towers + Heroes = best way to fight. But the one thing I really didn't like about War 3 was the bad map pool. I really think War 3 could've been a much better Esport game if Map Pools were more diverse. Like what if the first creep you fought are lvl 5 creeps, but drops lvl 1 items? etc etc. About the imbalance in war3, I do sense there is a certain degree of imbalance in War3 more than SC, but it's so hard to say whether it really is an imbalance or not because not all tools were utilized (IN MY PERSPECTIVE, NOTE THIS). In SC, maps play such a huge role in Balance. TvP in Rushour makes Terrans look like the absolute gayest race ever, but in maps like Katrina/Loki/Medusa (all 1.0), Protoss look like the ones with the rape stick. I'm kinda rambling on at this point so I'll put this in a nutshell. Although I do believe BM are gay as hell compared to other heroes, I also do find that War3 mapmakers aren't doing shit to do anything. There are WarCraft III mapmakers? I thought everyone was still just playing on the Blizzard maps... Like who made Turtle Rock? I'd like to see more experimental maps from WarCraft III, like a creepless map, or maybe just one set of creepy in your main to get your first level. Or a map that encouraged FE because of that and at least gave the option of a defensive play (which currently is impossible because then you're letting your opponent creep while you do nothing). | ||
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~_~
Canada239 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On August 22 2009 15:20 Chef wrote: But normal, explosive, and concussive damage is intuitive? I mean, after years and years it seems second nature, but the first time you watched a ghost doing 2 damage a shot compared to a marine still doing exactly the amount of damage he's supposed to, you must have been confused. Who's gone mass ghosts and then realised they can't kill buildings worth a damn? No it makes sense. You can't take down a building by shooting it with a sniper rifle lol. And at least starcraft only has 3 types, i don't even know how many types war3 has. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On August 22 2009 22:10 intruding wrote: very few people are addressing the point i was trying to make ^_^ I was wondering that. o.o I agreed with your OP (the thing no one else has read.) Everything takes so long to happen, yet I have no idea what's going on or who has an advantage. The spells look nice on their own, but they just look messy when there's so many of them. | ||
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Kage
India788 Posts
I think it's a matter of getting to know the game well. Playing SC for the first 10 games, I didn't understand the tech tree at all and what units come out of what and why you have some totally useless buildings (citadel of adun except for zealot upgrade) at first. But I have to say though, I love SC now. War3 was fun, but lack of maps and over emphasis on heros (esp the youknowwho) sort of made it lose the charm (even if iplayed random). SC seems like a new game, so much to learn! | ||
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