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On December 17 2022 02:53 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2022 02:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Honestly I think that Poopi's points are pretty much just homer rationalization at this point and I just don't really agree on any of them so I'm going to move on: Two days left until the final. I just found this article on ESPN. https://www.espn.com/sports/insider/soccer/insider/story/_/id/35259622/lionel-messi-world-cup-proves-best-male-athlete-everThe author lays out a number of stats and claims that they prove that Messi dramatically outperforms Ronaldo (and anyone else) as the best footballer of all time. He then goes on to a wild ride of claiming that Messi is the best male athlete of all time in any sport.Thoughts? Important information: -His definition of "athlete" is "person who plays a sport professionally". -He pretty much summarily disregards any players from older generations because the competition wasn't as good back then. -He refused to take American football, basketball, or hockey into account because they're not popular enough. -He claims that the only comparable athlete could be Usain Bolt, but doesn't actually lay out any argument as to why Messi would be considered the better athlete. Michael Jordan easily comes to mind. The fact that he is (afaik) the first athlete to become a billionaire despite starting with « low salaries » (compared to current NBA) is pretty telling.
I think that discounting sports that are still as popular as American football, basketball, and hockey is silly for multiple reasons.
That said, I don't think that Jordan would be the obvious pick. I think that it's Wayne Gretzky. The man has more assists in his career than any other hockey player has points (goals + assists). He's the only person to ever get 200 points in a season and he did it four times. He's won the MVP trophy a record 10 times and set 61 records in the NHL (still holding 59).
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On December 17 2022 03:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2022 02:53 Poopi wrote:On December 17 2022 02:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Honestly I think that Poopi's points are pretty much just homer rationalization at this point and I just don't really agree on any of them so I'm going to move on: Two days left until the final. I just found this article on ESPN. https://www.espn.com/sports/insider/soccer/insider/story/_/id/35259622/lionel-messi-world-cup-proves-best-male-athlete-everThe author lays out a number of stats and claims that they prove that Messi dramatically outperforms Ronaldo (and anyone else) as the best footballer of all time. He then goes on to a wild ride of claiming that Messi is the best male athlete of all time in any sport.Thoughts? Important information: -His definition of "athlete" is "person who plays a sport professionally". -He pretty much summarily disregards any players from older generations because the competition wasn't as good back then. -He refused to take American football, basketball, or hockey into account because they're not popular enough. -He claims that the only comparable athlete could be Usain Bolt, but doesn't actually lay out any argument as to why Messi would be considered the better athlete. Michael Jordan easily comes to mind. The fact that he is (afaik) the first athlete to become a billionaire despite starting with « low salaries » (compared to current NBA) is pretty telling. I think that discounting sports that are still as popular as American football, basketball, and hockey is silly for multiple reasons. That said, I don't think that Jordan would be the obvious pick. I think that it's Wayne Gretzky. The man has more assists in his career than any other hockey player has points (goals + assists). He's the only person to ever get 200 points in a season and he did it four times. He's won the MVP trophy a record 10 times and set 61 records in the NHL (still holding 59).
I think more people play and watch the "American" sports than do or watch athletics (all forms and together, running, jumping, throwing, ...) professionally. Then ignoring historical sporters is just an intentional recency bias and automatically disqualifies you from calling someone the GOAT. All time includes the past.
There's many amazing sporters. Ayrton Senna, Muhammed Ali, Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, Lionel Messi, Haile Gebreselassie, Ireen Wüst, Eddie Merckx, Tiger Woods, Serena Williams... are all examples of absolutely amazing sporters in different disciplines and times. They all did something unique. Finding some way of comparing them and their careers though, seems about as useful as trying to compare apples and oranges.
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On December 17 2022 03:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2022 03:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 17 2022 02:53 Poopi wrote:On December 17 2022 02:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Honestly I think that Poopi's points are pretty much just homer rationalization at this point and I just don't really agree on any of them so I'm going to move on: Two days left until the final. I just found this article on ESPN. https://www.espn.com/sports/insider/soccer/insider/story/_/id/35259622/lionel-messi-world-cup-proves-best-male-athlete-everThe author lays out a number of stats and claims that they prove that Messi dramatically outperforms Ronaldo (and anyone else) as the best footballer of all time. He then goes on to a wild ride of claiming that Messi is the best male athlete of all time in any sport.Thoughts? Important information: -His definition of "athlete" is "person who plays a sport professionally". -He pretty much summarily disregards any players from older generations because the competition wasn't as good back then. -He refused to take American football, basketball, or hockey into account because they're not popular enough. -He claims that the only comparable athlete could be Usain Bolt, but doesn't actually lay out any argument as to why Messi would be considered the better athlete. Michael Jordan easily comes to mind. The fact that he is (afaik) the first athlete to become a billionaire despite starting with « low salaries » (compared to current NBA) is pretty telling. I think that discounting sports that are still as popular as American football, basketball, and hockey is silly for multiple reasons. That said, I don't think that Jordan would be the obvious pick. I think that it's Wayne Gretzky. The man has more assists in his career than any other hockey player has points (goals + assists). He's the only person to ever get 200 points in a season and he did it four times. He's won the MVP trophy a record 10 times and set 61 records in the NHL (still holding 59). I think more people play and watch the "American" sports than do or watch athletics (all forms and together, running, jumping, throwing, ...) professionally. Then ignoring historical sporters is just an intentional recency bias and automatically disqualifies you from calling someone the GOAT. All time includes the past. There's many amazing sporters. Ayrton Senna, Muhammed Ali, Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, Lionel Messi, Haile Gebreselassie, Ireen Wüst, Eddie Merckx, Tiger Woods, Serena Williams... are all examples of absolutely amazing sporters in different disciplines and times. They all did something unique. Finding some way of comparing them and their careers though, seems about as useful as trying to compare apples and oranges.
Apples > Oranges.
That's right. I said it.
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is awesome32280 Posts
There are just so many metrics to compare athletes. Most people can't agree on a single active footballer, much harder to agree with a wider spectum in years and disciplines.
For example with Jordan, popularity comes with the bigger US media and sponsorships in sports (which were not as strong in other countries) and the NBA grabs players from a tiny pool of the population compared to football.
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Northern Ireland27264 Posts
On December 17 2022 02:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:Honestly I think that Poopi's points are pretty much just homer rationalization at this point and I just don't really agree on any of them so I'm going to move on: Two days left until the final. I just found this article on ESPN. https://www.espn.com/sports/insider/soccer/insider/story/_/id/35259622/lionel-messi-world-cup-proves-best-male-athlete-everThe author lays out a number of stats and claims that they prove that Messi dramatically outperforms Ronaldo (and anyone else) as the best footballer of all time. He then goes on to a wild ride of claiming that Messi is the best male athlete of all time in any sport.Thoughts? Important information: -His definition of "athlete" is "person who plays a sport professionally" and his general metric is "how dominant were they in their sport". -He pretty much summarily disregards any players from older generations because the competition wasn't as good back then. -He refused to take American football, basketball, or hockey into account because they're not popular enough. -He claims that the only comparable athlete could be Usain Bolt, but doesn't actually lay out any argument as to why Messi would be considered the better athlete.
Old but a great read re Messi
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Why is there even a debate? Obviously Flash is athlete GOAT!
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Efren Reyes and Ronnie O'Sullivan clearly the best sportspersons of all time
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Ronnie the Rocket is truly the GOAT of snooker. Such sublime effortless skills. Still staying on top despite his age and beating the younger generation stars like Judd Trump. His last Crucible run was truly epic.
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Entertaining game, great goals! But lots of uncharacteristic defensive lapses as well. Feels more like an exhibition match. But kudos for both teams and fans still keeping the energy and passion levels high.
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Next up tomorrow's game. France v Argentina. France is so so dangerous, with a bench depth to do anything if the need arises. One has to wonder how many game tapes Argentina has watched in the past 4 days.
edit: okay then.
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On December 18 2022 02:19 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Next up tomorrow's game. France v Argentina. France is so so dangerous, with a bench depth to do anything if the need arises. One has to wonder how many game tapes Argentina has watched in the past 4 days. edit: okay then. https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1604174600933343235
Well they seem to be doing just fine without him. But obviously he would be a great asset.
That dressing room must be hard to navigate.
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I said it when benzema got injured first that France will do better without him because France's downfall has always been too many egos. And giroud is the total opposite of being an ego in football
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Why would he even return? To sit in the stadium to see how others maybe win the world cup without him? I wouldn't go as well if I would not play and I doubt my ego is as large as Giroud.
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Jeez even Macron is in attendance lol
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is awesome32280 Posts
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Nerves. Messi needs to calm everyone down lol
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France13012 Posts
Wow such a sloppy game so far, the players need to chill
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Wow even Di Maria is on the field... injury be damned I guess.
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Northern Ireland27264 Posts
France really haven’t settled here yet, ‘mon the Argies!
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EPT
