EPTUS Politics Feedback Thread - Page 231
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
On May 19 2019 21:58 farvacola wrote: If one reads the daunt’s posts while remembering that, as a trope in legal writing, use of certainty intensifiers like clearly, it is well settled, and obviously tends to signpost the crux of an assertion or point of contention, they make a lot more sense. It's also called a fallacy, something Daunt would be intently familiar with if he knew what they were, considering how often he uses them. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15712 Posts
But this was not always the case. I can think of a very long period of time where the politics thread was totally fine. It was bad before, became good, then got bad again. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13984 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15712 Posts
On May 24 2019 13:50 Sermokala wrote: You can just say who you want to be banned from the thread. This thread was made for that after all. Whether people need to be banned is up to the mods. But what I will say is that there are a few members who were heavily moderated for about a month. Eventually, the mods seemed to have simply lost the will. And I don't blame them. I've been a moderator on a busy forum before and it is quite taxing. My impression is that the mods plain and simply lost the war of attrition. There are so many posts in the thread right now with absolutely no moderation. Shortly after GH's thread was closed and people returned to the thread, those same posts would have been warned in a heartbeat. But it just kind of stopped eventually. They would need to be sending out so many warnings that they clearly finally just said "fuck it" and gave up. They will step in when the thread gets reallllllly bad, but they otherwise let the thread be notably less moderated than other threads on TL. But as I said: I don't blame them. Many of the people who need the most moderation also post an absolute shit ton. There's only so much you can do. To me, if I was a mod, I would ask myself a few questions: 1. What standards for the US politics thread do I want to be maintained? 2. Am I able to sustain these standards by regularly ***and quickly*** dealing with posts that need moderation? 3. If the answer to (2) is "no", then the question is how else the quality of the thread can be maintained. When moderators ban members, it is not always because they are literal nazis. There are some posters who are simply always going to need heavy moderation and it is appropriate to just ban them. Mods are not paid. Mods are the only people who are able to keep a forum clean, dignified and appropriate. If the mods lose their motivation, no one else can pick up their slack. They serve a very important purpose. When they decide that they simply have too much moderating to do to keep up, it means people need to be banned. Not because those posters are nazis or something, but because the forum quality is not being maintained. When mods are not able to keep up with moderation, the whole forum suffers. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
And, like xDaunts suggestion, just ignore people that show they think you’re the scum of the earth. Subjectively speaking. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9675 Posts
On May 24 2019 15:41 Danglars wrote: They could use a few more mods. I don’t see you quote the most important measure for quality, which is a balance of ideological positions represented among active mods on the thread. I don’t view a quieter thread only hitting a few topics superior if it’s just center-left and left-wing participants. I’m also in favor of a dedicated thread for people of that viewpoint, since it allows a certain type of poster to flourish that otherwise would get frustrated at how few elements of his or her worldview is shared. And, like xDaunts suggestion, just ignore people that show they think you’re the scum of the earth. Subjectively speaking. It isn't the most important measure for quality. I would say the most important measure is who the loudest voices that represent each side. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8998 Posts
Stop the damn games and get this shit moving. Danglars, XDaunt to some extent. GH, NewSunshine, Serm, JC, IgNe, Introvert. Are these the general names people have issues with? Am I missing anyone? Those I've named. Step up or shut up. People come here for discussion, not to banter with ignorance that has no want to. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18048 Posts
On May 24 2019 20:27 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Assuming we're all adults to some.degree, just state your fucking position on topics if directly asked. Otherwise state, in writing, you have no comment. Stop the damn games and get this shit moving. Danglars, XDaunt to some extent. GH, NewSunshine, Serm, JC, IgNe, Introvert. Are these the general names people have issues with? Am I missing anyone? Those I've named. Step up or shut up. People come here for discussion, not to banter with ignorance that has no want to. Or maybe start reading what people actually say, rather than placing words in their mouth and then discussing what you think they stand for based on your own speculation. The whole shitshow over the last 10 pages was mostly people not reading. Not people refusing to elucidate their viewpoints. Although I do agree that Danglars promising to answer questions and then not answering any was a bit counterproductive. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28683 Posts
I think it's a bigger problem that a lot of people, when confronted with a somewhat vague statement, decide to infer a bad interpretation rather than a good one, than that some people make vague statements. Not that I never have a problem with the latter, it certainly does happen. But then people, rather than ask 'hey, is this what you mean?', instead go 'oh, so this is what you mean. That's stupid as hell'. And that pretty much never ends up being productive in any way. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8998 Posts
Some posters I listed do have good discussions when they don't stoop to mud slinging but when they do, it derails the thread. I'd prefer that people just state things clearly with source if possible. If not, then just say you have no comment. Would make things a lot easier in my opinion, to weed out what is actual discussion and what is noise. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37032 Posts
On May 24 2019 20:27 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Assuming we're all adults to some.degree, just state your fucking position on topics if directly asked. Otherwise state, in writing, you have no comment. Stop the damn games and get this shit moving. Danglars, XDaunt to some extent. GH, NewSunshine, Serm, JC, IgNe, Introvert. Are these the general names people have issues with? Am I missing anyone? Those I've named. Step up or shut up. People come here for discussion, not to banter with ignorance that has no want to. Thank you. I will take a closer look at the posters you’ve listed. And we may have to consider locking the thread if things don’t get better. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15712 Posts
On May 24 2019 22:20 Seeker wrote: Thank you. I will take a closer look at the posters you’ve listed. And we may have to consider locking the thread if things don’t get better. In my eyes, 2 different methods have completely fixed the thread in the past: 1. Ban from thread 2. Consistent, quick moderation If I may put on my "past moderator" hat, my impression is that (2) isn't possible because there simply aren't enough moderator resources. And that is understandable. May I ask what philosophy ended up conflicting with the idea of thread bans? I am assuming that at some point, you guys decided you didn't like it as an idea. But it felt like a really good way to reduce moderation cost while also allowing more members to remain on TL as a whole. Closing the thread feels like a slightly unethical solution because of how the thread has developed its own sub-community. When you have already demonstrated the capability to bring the thread up to TL standards, I am left wondering why you would decide to just close the thread entirely. Other options have worked. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On May 24 2019 22:20 Seeker wrote: Thank you. I will take a closer look at the posters you’ve listed. And we may have to consider locking the thread if things don’t get better. The problem is, and always has been, that the mods don't look at the posters not named Danglars, xDaunt, Sermokala, Igne, GH, Introvert, and the other similarly-situated, outside the leftist mainstream posters who have been banned over the years. The mods have systematically eliminated through either permabans or simple attrition many of the most interesting and smartest posters, regardless of where they lie on the political spectrum. The result is that the thread has been turned over to a class of poster that is decidedly uncurious and uninterested in engaging people with different ideas. If you go back and look at the original politics thread, you'll find some truly vibrant and at times, quite nasty debates on contentious topics. But what you won't find there is a chorus of fools repeatedly calling for the censorship of certain posters and their ideas. Such a notion would have been ridiculed by posters across the political spectrum in the old thread. In fact, you can even find instances where it was. Paralleluniverse, a very smart poster with whom I disagreed on damned near everything, made this point explicitly on multiple occasions and other leading posters in the thread agreed with him. The reason why GH's blog worked -- notwithstanding its greater intellectual and political diversity than the main thread -- is because the participants there share these "old school" political thread values. There is now a sizable group of posters in the politics thread who do not share these values and actively look to censor the people they disagree with politically. The mods have failed the political thread by indulging these calls for censorship. So now we get these multi-page group rants about which Mohdoo is complaining in which multiple posters call for a given poster to be actioned or censored. If the mods want to fix the thread, they should start by actioning anyone who makes such posts. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8111 Posts
On May 24 2019 23:43 xDaunt wrote: The problem is, and always has been, that the mods don't look at the posters not named Danglars, xDaunt, Sermokala, Igne, GH, Introvert, and the other similarly-situated, outside the leftist mainstream posters who have been banned over the years. The mods have systematically eliminated through either permabans or simple attrition many of the most interesting and smartest posters, regardless of where they lie on the political spectrum. The result is that the thread has been turned over to a class of poster that is decidedly uncurious and uninterested in engaging people with different ideas. If you go back and look at the original politics thread, you'll find some truly vibrant and at times, quite nasty debates on contentious topics. But what you won't find there is a chorus of fools repeatedly calling for the censorship of certain posters and their ideas. Such a notion would have been ridiculed by posters across the political spectrum in the old thread. In fact, you can even find instances where it was. Paralleluniverse, a very smart poster with whom I disagreed on damned near everything, made this point explicitly on multiple occasions and other leading posters in the thread agreed with him. The reason why GH's blog worked -- notwithstanding its greater intellectual and political diversity than the main thread -- is because the participants there share these "old school" political thread values. There is now a sizable group of posters in the politics thread who do not share these values and actively look to censor the people they disagree with politically. The mods have failed the political thread by indulging these calls for censorship. So now we get these multi-page group rants about which Mohdoo is complaining in which multiple posters call for a given poster to be actioned or censored. If the mods want to fix the thread, they should start by actioning anyone who makes such posts. How much tinfoil do you go through pr year if I may ask? Maybe instead of taking on the victim status, you could look at exactly why the posters you named here keeps getting regulated more than the others? | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15712 Posts
On May 25 2019 00:03 Excludos wrote: How much tinfoil do you go through pr year if I may ask? Maybe instead of taking on the victim status, you could look at exactly why the posters you named here keeps getting regulated more than the others? Victim complex is typical in communities where 1 group hugely outnumber the others. That's why forum conservatives on many sites, not just TL, have an overwhelming victim complex. They have been like a 1:10 minority for basically the entire existence of the internet. This makes them always feel isolated and attacked. The same is true of democrats living in Alabama. It is just a natural psychological effect of being extremely outnumbered in opinionated discussions for a long period of time. xDaunt is just another example of something that has already been characterized. I wouldn't say I blame him for it, since it is something normal for humans to feel in his situation. But it doesn't mean his feelings are legitimate, its just how psychology works. It is normal to get really bitter when a large majority of people don't think your ideas are good. The human brain will naturally find explanations that reinforce the existing idea that we as people have good, true ideas that are ethical and justifiable. When overwhelming majority of people tell someone that isn't true, that person uses other mechanisms to still think that. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On May 25 2019 00:06 Mohdoo wrote: Victim complex is typical in communities where 1 group hugely outnumber the others. That's why forum conservatives on many sites, not just TL, have an overwhelming victim complex. They have been like a 1:10 minority for basically the entire existence of the internet. This makes them always feel isolated and attacked. The same is true of democrats living in Alabama. It is just a natural psychological effect of being extremely outnumbered in opinionated discussions for a long period of time. xDaunt is just another example of something that has already been characterized. I wouldn't say I blame him for it, since it is something normal for humans to feel in his situation. But it doesn't mean his feelings are legitimate, its just how psychology works. It is normal to get really bitter when a large majority of people don't think your ideas are good. The human brain will naturally find explanations that reinforce the existing idea that we as people have good, true ideas that are ethical and justifiable. When overwhelming majority of people tell someone that isn't true, that person uses other mechanisms to still think that. While I don't expect better of Excludos, I do expect better of you. You've been around long enough to know exactly what I was talking about in my post. It has nothing to do with persecution of those with conservative viewpoints. In fact, the post itself makes it quite clear that I'm talking about something very different. | ||
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