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As announced by Nazgul here and has since been in effect:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/458759-shared-community-forums
Some of the community forums are now shared between the liquid websites.
I'd like to propose that the TL Mafia forum also be shared between the websites. I personally am by far most interested in Dota of the games covered by the liquid network, and I'm sure many of the active mafia players have different opinions on which, if any, game they are interested in.
Not only that, having the forum optionally visible (and probably by default off) on all the network sites, should help us as a community find more players and continue growing.
I understand Nazgul's initial concern that Mafia is it's own community, and it certainly is, but I'm struggling to see a downside to making this change, although of course I won't pretend to know if it's technically feasible, and if there may be other reasons for not doing this.
I guess all I'm trying to say that while I followed starcraft and SC2 it was very nice to have actually interesting news on the sidebar while playing mafia. I don't really follow these anymore, but I am very interested in Dota.
I'd love to be interested in the site, not just the mafia forum, once again. And for me that would happen if I was allowed to play in a shared forum from liquiddota. I'm sure other players would love the same from different forums.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Excellent idea!
While polling new players about how they learned about TL Mafia, by the far the most common reply is that they found it on the sidebar and decided to give it a try. The mafia community really relies on these newbie games to bring in fresh blood and keep the player base active. This addition would definitely be appreciated, even if it is a single link on the sidebar, similar to the LoL General link on the main site.
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Canada11355 Posts
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As someone who follows SC2 and lol religiously yes, yes please dear god yes.
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It is time my brethren! We shall expand our empire!!! Ride the Beast to distance lands! Raise the banner of TL MAFIA!!!! Onwards to Victory!
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your Country52797 Posts
Would like this. Someone make it happen please?
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Yes I'm mostly on the hearthstone site, logging onto both sites is just a hassle.
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That would be really helpful.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I think this would be awesome and support it.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Canada11355 Posts
On February 12 2015 01:32 Holyflare wrote:
dat admin ignore though
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Just realized I never actually posted in this thread.
Given my (extremely limited) knowledge of everything involved here, this would be a really good change.
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Germany25649 Posts
I'm trying to get an answer from the admins.
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This is like finally having worked up the courage to text a hot girl asking her if she wants to go on a date then suffering through the agonizing pain of waiting for a response.
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Wouldn't it be easier to pm flamewheel instead of betting on this thread?  Or Mig?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Admins read this thread, and as I've said before it requires a non-trivial amount of admin work to do, not something a typical banhammer has access to, I assume.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Mafia fits under the same kind of umbrella as CS:GO and Smash so the decision wasn't immediately clear cut. I can appreciate that mafia is somewhat different to the other games as it's a forum game and not a video game, so we'll see if its possible. If it is, it might take some time before it can be done.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On February 16 2015 12:37 Plexa wrote:
Mafia fits under the same kind of umbrella as CS:GO and Smash so the decision wasn't immediately clear cut. I can appreciate that mafia is somewhat different to the other games as it's a forum game and not a video game, so we'll see if its possible. If it is, it might take some time before it can be done.
Fair enough, and we as a subcommunity look forward to hearing about the possibilities going forward. Thanks for your time and consideration.
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Canada11355 Posts
Thanks for the response plexa we all appreciate it.
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On February 16 2015 12:37 Plexa wrote:
Mafia fits under the same kind of umbrella as CS:GO and Smash so the decision wasn't immediately clear cut. I can appreciate that mafia is somewhat different to the other games as it's a forum game and not a video game, so we'll see if its possible. If it is, it might take some time before it can be done.
Thanks for the response, and please don't take this suggestion as a criticism of the initial decision. It took us a long time to actually recognize that maybe this is something we'd like, and even then we have no idea if it's an actual improvement or not. It's just something I feel like is a good idea to try out if it's possible.
As for the timeframe, there is obviously no rush. It'd be nice to get some sort of a heads up (you can pop by the mafia forum and use the community thread or something) if you end up deciding against doing this. Just a little nod like "hey guys, we talked about this, and it's just not going to work for now, sorry".
Also you should play some mafia again at some point 
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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Ok let's see:
Filter button is gone from the mafia forums.
The time stamps are really inaccurate now (no longer show exact time of posting)
TL Mafia (and CS:GO and some other things) have been moved to "Other Games" when on the other sites (liquiddota, liquidhearth etc) they're under "community". This is obviously not a huge problem but it probably is confusing to some.
Also we'd still like this
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bump i think this is really important for tlmafia people!
filter + timestamps. dunno i guess you're probably busy with stuff relating to the new design but missing these two things is really a major issue when you're playing/hosting forum mafia. i hope you'll find time to look into it soon!
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Both of these features, Filtering and Timestamps, are crucial to TL Mafia and have a lot of value to us. Both of them are big game-changers and make Mafia much more playable. I'm sure you guys are swamped but these things are like, super important for us.Some, like me, can buy TL+ and get the filter function, but some of us are students or children or are not able to do so for financial reasons. Also, there's currently no way, even with TL+, to get visible timestamps back.
This means a lot to us! Please revert the feature regressions when you have the opportunity.
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I guess its weird that I didn't realize how important filters and timestamps were until they were gone. And they go away right as I came back to mafia.... It'd be really nice to get them back.
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Filters are so insanely important for mafia.
I played a game of mafia on another forum recently. They didn't have a filter, only the same kind of "search by username" thing that's typical of forum software.
It was so terrible that I spooled up an amazon EC2 instance, downloaded the forum software, and manually edited the filter function into the forum software and convinced the people on the forum to implement it.
Please bring it back!
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Would greatly appreciate having filters back.
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I think filters bring people to the site because alot of mafia forums dont have them. So when we have them and people play on other sites and tell them TL is better so come here to play mafia it brings you guys more people to the site, therefore you should give us filters back so we can bring more people to the site.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Please give us filters and timestamps. WHile not actively playing anymore, those 2 are hugely vital for playing mafia.
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Bumping to add my voice to the request. Just gonna CC what I wrote on the general feedback thread:
On July 31 2015 23:52 Rels wrote:
I find the new style pretty cool, loving the washed up feel! And loving the responsive design too.
As a mafia player I have two problems with the design though:
- timestamp. I see a lot of people don't like having *XXX weeks ago* already; in a mafia game it is even more shitty to not know the hour and minute of a post when rereading the thread or a filter
- filters. the TL submafia used to have the option of filtering player's post; that option is now gone, making playing the game super difficult
Any idea when / if that will be fixed ?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yeah mafia is pretty unplayable without those features
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
please don't kill mafia on this site, TL.
You're killing it.
Please.
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TL should have just posted this
![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSI4i4bkdGJpihLyaK19VtcMBVXvKOfYXhtLnFD-DlhN5t6WoZqqJXQWR8)
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Would really like the filters and timestamps features for the TL Mafia forums. Or at the very least filters.
I use not just the TL Mafia forums but also the general/community forums as well as Liquid Dota, and some of these latest changes reminded me of some of the pitfalls of Liquid Dota as a site.
Also I have gripes on the mobile layout of the site, and it is very difficult to navigate between PMs, subforums on mobile.
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I would love to have (back) the filter and timestamp features for the TL Mafia forums as well.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I talked to a couple people and word on the street is filters will return to TL Mafia. Huzzah!
It's worth noting that TL+ doesn't give absolute timestamps. Hopefully absolute timestamps will return as well, though this isn't as pressing a need as filters.
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We need filters please.
Edit: And timestamps would be very nice.
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Mafia is dead on this site now - You have not added filters when it has been asked, we thought adding it to the other LD/etc sites - TL has sold out. RIP
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
The lack of filters really makes Mafia hard to play on TL. This is a problem.
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It is understandable that this might take some time or whatever. But the fact that nobody has even taken the 3 minutes it takes to post a response or even an acknowledgement of the concerns of our community clearly shows how little the mafia sub-forum is valued or respected by the staff and mods of TL.
Our community deserves representation on the the MOD TEAM. Gmarsh has been afk for months and for at least a year before that spent little time as a member of TLmafia in terms of hosting or playing in games.
We deserve as a community to have at least one active and engaged member who actually plays and hosts games regularly to represent our interest on the moderation team, there are several people with tens of thousands of posts who could fill the role.
We need filters and accurate timestamps period (and not behind a paywall) These are essential things that allow us to play our game at the high standard we expect of ourselves and are known for throughout the forum mafia community at large.
We need to have the mafia forum available across then TL network of sites. Our community needs fresh blood to stay alive and not stagnate and die. We do our best but would very much appreciate access to potential new LOL/DOTA/HS gamers that wish to explore forum mafia. ( this has been covered in the past )
We deserve prompt and clear communication from TL staff when we provide feedback on very important issues to our community. It is not ok that we are left by the wayside when it would take only a handful of minutes to address the concerns in this thread, even just to say you are looking into it.
EDIT: I'm considering posting this as a new thread as like a "TL mafia: Manifesto" or something. Due to the utter lack of acknowledgement or communication I don't even know if TL mods/starff are reading this thread anymore. Thoughts?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I think that could be a good idea, since the OP of this thread is not updated. I think request #1 should be timestamps and filters, since you cannot play without them. Otherwise those all look like laudable requests.
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Yeah, just a friendly reminder that TL mafia might die without filters and timestamps.
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Ok. Anything I should change or add?
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Germany25649 Posts
I am reading it and am trying to get a response. Can't promise anything but I am doing my best.
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On August 08 2015 22:36 KadaverBB wrote:
I am reading it and am trying to get a response. Can't promise anything but I am doing my best.
Cool thanks. A few lines to let us know something is happening is much appreciated.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Woah guys, relax. TL isn't selling out, we're not locking features behind paywalls. It is known to us that filters need to be added here, but this is one thing amongst a myriad of important things that needs doing and R1CH is only one person. Unfortunately, enabling filters here falls lower on the priorities list than say, getting bans to expire after their duration. Filters will get reenabled at some point, perhaps not at the speed you would like but unfortunately that's the way it has to be for now.
With regard to timestamps, I can't make any promises but there is a lot of internal support for change timestamps to absolute (possibly after 24 hours).
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Germany25649 Posts
Btw, if you have moderation concerns about the mafia forum, feel free to bring them to me. Eventhough I am not actively playing the game, I should be able to help you out with most things.
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On August 09 2015 00:36 KadaverBB wrote:
Btw, if you have moderation concerns about the mafia forum, feel free to bring them to me. Eventhough I am not actively playing the game, I should be able to help you out with most things.
That is fine, but I still feel like we deserve to have one of our own be able to advocate for us and deal with our sub-forum.
We self - moderate for all intents and purposes anyway.
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Germany25649 Posts
Unfortunately we can only turn people into moderators for the entire site, not just for certain subforums.
Maybe when TL 2.0 is done and we have more flexibility with our permission system we could think about it.
Until then you will probably have to make due with me
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On August 08 2015 23:10 Plexa wrote:
Woah guys, relax. TL isn't selling out, we're not locking features behind paywalls. It is known to us that filters need to be added here, but this is one thing amongst a myriad of important things that needs doing and R1CH is only one person. Unfortunately, enabling filters here falls lower on the priorities list than say, getting bans to expire after their duration. Filters will get reenabled at some point, perhaps not at the speed you would like but unfortunately that's the way it has to be for now.
It seems like it would have been a good idea to think about that beforehand instead of breaking an entire sub-forum and then not having clear communication or even a timeline on when this will be resolved.
On August 08 2015 23:10 Plexa wrote:
With regard to timestamps, I can't make any promises but there is a lot of internal support for change time stamps to absolute (possibly after 24 hours)
For mafia it needs to be accurate at all times.
On August 09 2015 00:47 KadaverBB wrote:Unfortunately we can only turn people into moderators for the entire site, not just for certain subforums. Maybe when TL 2.0 is done and we have more flexibility with our permission system we could think about it. Until then you will probably have to make due with me
And why could someone from the mafia forum like Blazinghand who also posts on other forums not be a moderator for the entire site with a focus on TL Mafia?
I don't mean to be combative about this, but our community seems to be getting overlooked and stepped on recently and it only seems fair that we get some real representation.
Thanks for being more communicative, hopefully we can get these issues addressed in the near future. Please keep us updated.
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Germany25649 Posts
I don't understand why you would need someone on the moderation team. You said that "We self - moderate for all intents and purposes anyway."
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Just a guess:
On August 09 2015 00:53 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 23:10 Plexa wrote:
Woah guys, relax. TL isn't selling out, we're not locking features behind paywalls. It is known to us that filters need to be added here, but this is one thing amongst a myriad of important things that needs doing and R1CH is only one person. Unfortunately, enabling filters here falls lower on the priorities list than say, getting bans to expire after their duration. Filters will get reenabled at some point, perhaps not at the speed you would like but unfortunately that's the way it has to be for now. It seems like it would have been a good idea to think about that beforehand instead of breaking an entire sub-forum and then not having clear communication or even a timeline on when this will be resolved. Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 23:10 Plexa wrote:
With regard to timestamps, I can't make any promises but there is a lot of internal support for change time stamps to absolute (possibly after 24 hours) For mafia it needs to be accurate at all times. Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 00:47 KadaverBB wrote:Unfortunately we can only turn people into moderators for the entire site, not just for certain subforums. Maybe when TL 2.0 is done and we have more flexibility with our permission system we could think about it. Until then you will probably have to make due with me And why could someone from the mafia forum like Blazinghand who also posts on other forums not be a moderator for the entire site with a focus on TL Mafia? I don't mean to be combative about this, but our community seems to be getting overlooked and stepped on recently and it only seems fair that we get some real representation.Thanks for being more communicative, hopefully we can get these issues addressed in the near future. Please keep us updated.
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On August 10 2015 00:28 KadaverBB wrote:
I don't understand why you would need someone on the moderation team. You said that "We self - moderate for all intents and purposes anyway."
In addition to all the other points i've made.
We need someone to take over Gmarsh's role:
Blazinghand is currently overseeing the ban list, but it can make things awkward when that person does not have moderating powers. (why does blazinghand get to decide he isn't even a mod etc.)
We need to be able to deal with people who choose to ignore the decisions made by the ban list thread.
We need a mod to look out for people creating multiple accounts in order to smurf and play some themed games without consequence.
We need someone to be our representative voice on the site, with both site staff and other moderators.
I fail top see how or why making one of our veteran members a site moderator. Is it some exclusive clique? Our community deserves and requires a voice and a mod and to me that should be done really easily.
And im sorry but someone who is not invested or even an active participant of our community does not cut it unfortunately.
I personally think Marvellosity or Blazinghand would be great choices to join the mod team.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I think the urgent requests are:
1. bring back Filters for all users in TL Mafia
2. absolute timestamps
in that order. Mafia can't really be played as it is now.
In terms of all the things that TL Mafia needs a moderator for, I'm fine just pming a hammer or bothering pachi about it when I see him on IRC. The main issue is that we have new users join us fairly often, and we need someone with the ability to check for matching IPs to make sure there isn't like, one guy playing under two accounts (and therefore cheating).. I personally think that it's fine just to PM a mod about this. Same goes for other things like if someone actually needs a TL site ban, PMing a mod should probably work, assuming they're willing to put up with the requests.
I understand DarthPunk's other concerns though and there are a couple people feeling a bit left in the lurch with the upgrade. Certainly one could see why he'd be concerned about something like this, since if someone in TL Mafia knew about this coming they would have given a heads up about this issue ahead of time, rather than bothering staff about it after the fact when you're swamped with tons of other fixes. His worry is understandable.
The main concerns for me is filters and timestamps.
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Well it's certainly nice with some staffer response so we know we're not being ignored.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Indeed! Thanks for stopping by, KadaverBB
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
IP checking is a feature only available to red names and higher. Creating a mafia banling doesn't solve that problem.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Hmm, well for IP checking sounds like we'll have to make do with PMing then. We used to PM GM about these things, but generally there's usually someone around who can deal with it. Typically the turnaround doesn't need to be faster than 24 hours so that shouldn't be a problem.
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
Kadaver based god as ever
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I don't see the need for a TL Mafia Banling. At best it feels like a convenience issue.
Now I also don't really see any downside in creating one. At worst the mods don't think they can find a trustworthy tl-mafia dude to do it, but I could come up with a list of 5 people I'd trust to do it in like 10 seconds.
So I have no opinion on it, but I'm not going to actively pester the mods for it.
I think BlazingHand did a great job of summarizing the priority list from our perspective.
@Plexa, the pay2win comment was almost certainly a joke. I don't think anyone expected TL to try to lock features required to play the game up behind a paywall.
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Germany25649 Posts
I can certainly do all the IP checking you require (we are not promoting someone to red or admin just for this purpose).
Feel free to PM me about anything BlazingHand, eventhough I am going to regret this later.
Timestamps are being worked on, I'll try to get some more info.
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Filters seem to be back. Thanks a lot!
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
On August 11 2015 00:40 justanothertownie wrote:
Filters seem to be back. Thanks a lot!
yep, brilliant. thank ye TL
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A big thank you for the filters!
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 10 2015 20:39 KadaverBB wrote:
I can certainly do all the IP checking you require (we are not promoting someone to red or admin just for this purpose).
Feel free to PM me about anything BlazingHand, eventhough I am going to regret this later.
Timestamps are being worked on, I'll try to get some more info.
Looks like filters are up and running again!  Thanks for the quick reply. This was the most important issue. Hopefully things go well with the timestamp change as well.
Thanks for making yourself available for IP checks! we usually have 1 or 2 games starting per week tops, so it's not a huge amount of checking, especially since most players are repeat players. I'll feel comfortable PMing you.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Thanks!
Now for more serious matters.....why aren't Kad and Plexa playing mafia? :D
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All hail the TL Overlords in their infinite wisdom to grant our small sub (TL Mafia) much needed functionality. I'd love to buy you guys a drink or something if I ever catch you guys at events.
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Germany25649 Posts
On August 11 2015 07:25 kitaman27 wrote:
Thanks!
Now for more serious matters.....why aren't Kad and Plexa playing mafia? :D
I'd probably end up banning all of you for constantly beating me. Don't tempt me
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On August 11 2015 08:46 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2015 07:25 kitaman27 wrote:
Thanks!
Now for more serious matters.....why aren't Kad and Plexa playing mafia? :D I'd probably end up banning all of you for constantly beating me. Don't tempt me
It's okay if you suck at mafia. We expect you to. I mean, surely the great Kadaver wouldn't be a better mafia player than any of TL's finest.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Timestamps are back! thanks so much, TL team!
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Any word on sharing the Mafia forum as of yet?
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Mafia on TL is dying!
You TL people should care about that because in mafia we check and refresh the forum a lot and look at a ton of ads.
Furthermore, it preserves and builds loyalty in your userbase. I would have left TL long ago if not for mafia. It is a way to keep people in your community after they grow bored of the games you support.
The only way to save TL Mafia is to put us on the sidebar of HS, Dota, and LoL pages. Our surveys show that a vast majority of our players are introduced to mafia through the sidebar.
Whatever your technical guy is working on now, I doubt it brings the revenue that TLMafia would if it were fully implemented across all your sites.
So save TLMafia, if not for the community then for your bottom line!
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
It is true that our analytics indicate most new users are from sidebar clicks! As the TL community has become spread out to other forums, our throughput in the top of the funnel has diminished. Although we've done stuff to lower the attrition rate, like introducing more newbie-friendly games and so on, at the core we're just not getting the number of clicks we used to because only a portion of site has TL Mafia visible on it.
Understandably, there are a lot of competing demands on TL Staff/Admin's time so this has fallen by the wayside, but I'd like to think that TL Mafia draws people and WILL draw people from all TL communities. Mafia isn't something that only SC2/BW players play-- we have a couple people from LiquidHearth, from LiquidLegends and so on. So we're totally the sort of forum that could benefit a lot and would enjoy being available on the entire TL network!
Please consider us!
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Germany25649 Posts
I've brought it up again. Update in a day or 2 !
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Germany25649 Posts
Ok here's the plan. We are going to move the mafia forum into the community section which is shared between all our sites.
Feel free to adjust your sidebar settings so you don't get confused when the mafia forum is suddenly missing
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 24 2016 08:55 KadaverBB wrote:Ok here's the plan. We are going to move the mafia forum into the community section which is shared between all our sites. Feel free to adjust your sidebar settings so you don't get confused when the mafia forum is suddenly missing
Thanks KBB!
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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Germany25649 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Thanks KBB! This looks great. Visibility looks fine to me
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While this is still on everyone's mind, the other sites besides teamliquidcould use filter access!
Although I generally browse liquiddota these days, if I'm playing in a game I have to switch back to teamliquid because it's the only one with filters 
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EPT
