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On June 18 2012 08:27 NrGmonk wrote:
Well, this derailed quickly. If you guys want this problem to be fixed, then perhaps suggest more reasonable solutions?
My solution is a defeatist attitude, and a heavy dose of cynicism. It doesn't fix much, but it keeps my brain from exploding.
Every time this has come up, there's been little to no effective support, aside from the already mentioned, and short-lived previous crackdown.
As the level of stupidity increases, there's two possible responses for the regulars. Give up, which is what seems to currently be the case, or respond with overwhelming evidence, just to have someone continue to argue that their "opinion" has some sort of merit in the objective world of computers, regular explains that that's utterly stupid, regular gets temped, regular says "fuck it".
End result of both routes is huge amounts of bad advice. The few mods who are qualified to mod tech support are generally busy doing other stuff, and, with the recent exception of GM, most other mods showing up there is a sure-fire way to decrease the quality of advice through ignorant moderation.
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On June 18 2012 17:34 beetlelisk wrote:
Isn't R1CH our tech guy?
R1CH is usually off on tech black ops, killing communists in the name of technological advancement. But on a serious note, he's a really busy guy, and probably doesn't have the time to read most of the tech support forum, never mind moderate it.
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On June 18 2012 17:54 Chargelot wrote:R1CH is usually off on tech black ops, killing communists in the name of technological advancement. But on a serious note, he's a really busy guy, and probably doesn't have the time to read most of the tech support forum, never mind moderate it.
He doesn't have to read it, just address reports. Is maintaining technical side of TL really that time consuming?
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On June 18 2012 18:04 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 17:54 Chargelot wrote:On June 18 2012 17:34 beetlelisk wrote:
Isn't R1CH our tech guy? R1CH is usually off on tech black ops, killing communists in the name of technological advancement. But on a serious note, he's a really busy guy, and probably doesn't have the time to read most of the tech support forum, never mind moderate it. He doesn't have to read it, just address reports. Is maintaining technical side of TL really that time consuming?
I don't believe R1CH earns his living by maintaining TL. I could be wrong, but he most likely has a life out there.
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I think the real problem lies in half measures. The majority of the mods ignore the tech board, until someone gets reported for being an asshole. What that means is they have no context, and without understanding the subject matter, there's a knee-jerk reaction, usually directed at a regular, when in reality, that regular would have been happier if the board wasn't getting shit on to begin with.
Usually, moderation is done by mods who frequent a board anyways. They contribute, even if their primary contribution is enjoying a topic and keeping it sane. In tech, not so much. Unless we get someone sympathetic to the cause, like GM, we're pretty much doomed to continuing stupidity, because few mods are willing to step up to the plate on bad advice, but they're more than happy to make some half-assed, ignorant judgement of behavior against a regular who's trying to help, and tired of spending as much time taking out the trash as posting.
Yes, we're opinionated, and sometimes a little bit harsh. But then, if I dragged my happy ass into SC2 strat and started telling people about my Roach/Baneling counter to Banshees, I bet people who questioned my intelligence wouldn't get modded, just me. Why? Because that's the way it should be. In Tech, however, there's no recourse except to explain 50 or a thousand times that Banelings don't shoot up. And then when you get mad, it makes you a bad person to some random mod who's utterly ignorant on the subject matter. And people who don't give a shit about the Tech board modding it by throwing darts over their shoulder while drunk and blindfolded doesn't help anyone. But that's most of what we get.
So, the solution? Give us moderation that cares, like GM, or don't get underfoot.
Edit: An example. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345897¤tpage=2#21
If I go off on him, I'll get red text. But 99% of mods will ignore a report on that. People like that get ignored to continue shitting things up, and people like me go batshit. Wonder why? This guy is saying Banelings shoot up.
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On June 16 2012 07:48 Filter wrote:
Do you think it's possible we can get a crackdown started on piss poor advice again? This is all you see in every thread there, and with 2500k's being babysit overclock chips it's getting worse. I know teamliquid is not a serious tech support website, but that section really needs some moderation and standards to bring it up to the rest of this website.
Temps?
Overclock will help!
Repaste all the things!
Thats how it's supposed to look
I mean, I saw one guy who had a dying gpu and people told him to stress test it and tell them the temps. Of course the gpu is going to die, there's ways he might be able to salvage it but not if he cooks it to get numbers.
I don't post much there, but I do sometimes. I do read it a lot though and the forum as a whole is turning into a total joke.
There is a good reason people will suggest this (although not always). If someone says, "my video card has been acting up recently"; without being there to notice and observe non-quantifiable differences in the "before" and "after" effect, and since most of these problems stem from overheating or throttling, it's not bad advice to suggest stress testing.
There's not much difference between playing a beefy game on max settings and stress testing; and at least you can verify it's not overheating and throttling.
Anyways, I think Jingle becoming a tech mod would be funny and should work; and highly reminiscent of how Chill became Strategy mod.
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I already thought FragKag and mahini were Tech Support mods.
Honestly, if mods are going to be added to Tech Support, Womwomwom, Myrmidon, and JingleHell should.
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On June 19 2012 03:13 jacosajh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 07:48 Filter wrote:
Do you think it's possible we can get a crackdown started on piss poor advice again? This is all you see in every thread there, and with 2500k's being babysit overclock chips it's getting worse. I know teamliquid is not a serious tech support website, but that section really needs some moderation and standards to bring it up to the rest of this website.
Temps?
Overclock will help!
Repaste all the things!
Thats how it's supposed to look
I mean, I saw one guy who had a dying gpu and people told him to stress test it and tell them the temps. Of course the gpu is going to die, there's ways he might be able to salvage it but not if he cooks it to get numbers.
I don't post much there, but I do sometimes. I do read it a lot though and the forum as a whole is turning into a total joke. There is a good reason people will suggest this (although not always). If someone says, "my video card has been acting up recently"; without being there to notice and observe non-quantifiable differences in the "before" and "after" effect, and since most of these problems stem from overheating or throttling, it's not bad advice to suggest stress testing.There's not much difference between playing a beefy game on max settings and stress testing; and at least you can verify it's not overheating and throttling. Anyways, I think Jingle becoming a tech mod would be funny and should work; and highly reminiscent of how Chill became Strategy mod.
On the bolded part, a lot of that has to do with whether they mention panic temps at which point testing should be stopped. And on whether they discussed cleaning first. I don't disagree with stressing, but I know sometimes the phrasing can turn it into bad advice.
On the last bit, as much as I'd love to see someone doing the job, I'm not sure I would want the PMs from people I dealt with. I also doubt most of the staff would even begin to consider that an option, with my temper.
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On June 19 2012 05:08 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 03:13 jacosajh wrote:On June 16 2012 07:48 Filter wrote:
Do you think it's possible we can get a crackdown started on piss poor advice again? This is all you see in every thread there, and with 2500k's being babysit overclock chips it's getting worse. I know teamliquid is not a serious tech support website, but that section really needs some moderation and standards to bring it up to the rest of this website.
Temps?
Overclock will help!
Repaste all the things!
Thats how it's supposed to look
I mean, I saw one guy who had a dying gpu and people told him to stress test it and tell them the temps. Of course the gpu is going to die, there's ways he might be able to salvage it but not if he cooks it to get numbers.
I don't post much there, but I do sometimes. I do read it a lot though and the forum as a whole is turning into a total joke. There is a good reason people will suggest this (although not always). If someone says, "my video card has been acting up recently"; without being there to notice and observe non-quantifiable differences in the "before" and "after" effect, and since most of these problems stem from overheating or throttling, it's not bad advice to suggest stress testing.There's not much difference between playing a beefy game on max settings and stress testing; and at least you can verify it's not overheating and throttling. Anyways, I think Jingle becoming a tech mod would be funny and should work; and highly reminiscent of how Chill became Strategy mod. On the bolded part, a lot of that has to do with whether they mention panic temps at which point testing should be stopped. And on whether they discussed cleaning first. I don't disagree with stressing, but I know sometimes the phrasing can turn it into bad advice. On the last bit, as much as I'd love to see someone doing the job, I'm not sure I would want the PMs from people I dealt with. I also doubt most of the staff would even begin to consider that an option, with my temper.
Like I said, highly reminiscent of Chill becoming a mod. Lol.
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On June 19 2012 06:10 jacosajh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 05:08 JingleHell wrote:On June 19 2012 03:13 jacosajh wrote:On June 16 2012 07:48 Filter wrote:
Do you think it's possible we can get a crackdown started on piss poor advice again? This is all you see in every thread there, and with 2500k's being babysit overclock chips it's getting worse. I know teamliquid is not a serious tech support website, but that section really needs some moderation and standards to bring it up to the rest of this website.
Temps?
Overclock will help!
Repaste all the things!
Thats how it's supposed to look
I mean, I saw one guy who had a dying gpu and people told him to stress test it and tell them the temps. Of course the gpu is going to die, there's ways he might be able to salvage it but not if he cooks it to get numbers.
I don't post much there, but I do sometimes. I do read it a lot though and the forum as a whole is turning into a total joke. There is a good reason people will suggest this (although not always). If someone says, "my video card has been acting up recently"; without being there to notice and observe non-quantifiable differences in the "before" and "after" effect, and since most of these problems stem from overheating or throttling, it's not bad advice to suggest stress testing.There's not much difference between playing a beefy game on max settings and stress testing; and at least you can verify it's not overheating and throttling. Anyways, I think Jingle becoming a tech mod would be funny and should work; and highly reminiscent of how Chill became Strategy mod. On the bolded part, a lot of that has to do with whether they mention panic temps at which point testing should be stopped. And on whether they discussed cleaning first. I don't disagree with stressing, but I know sometimes the phrasing can turn it into bad advice. On the last bit, as much as I'd love to see someone doing the job, I'm not sure I would want the PMs from people I dealt with. I also doubt most of the staff would even begin to consider that an option, with my temper. Like I said, highly reminiscent of Chill becoming a mod. Lol.
I'm thinking it can be done the way it has been so far ie contribute and report until you get noticed. Except make your reports really detailed and explain in them why someone is posting shit. Back that up with links to some good tech sites...
Or let's do something different - let the contributors nominated here as tech support forum banlings form a sort of committee, create a thread "[D] warn/ban this poster for bad advice" in tech support and let the committee debate about wrong doings of other posters there.
When the committee reaches a conclusion with overweighting amount of votes, a banling or mod gets notified to warn or ban a certain user. I'm thinking again why R1CH can't be helpful in this situation, it would be cool for someone with insight into things to explain this.
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On June 19 2012 06:30 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:10 jacosajh wrote:On June 19 2012 05:08 JingleHell wrote:On June 19 2012 03:13 jacosajh wrote:On June 16 2012 07:48 Filter wrote:
Do you think it's possible we can get a crackdown started on piss poor advice again? This is all you see in every thread there, and with 2500k's being babysit overclock chips it's getting worse. I know teamliquid is not a serious tech support website, but that section really needs some moderation and standards to bring it up to the rest of this website.
Temps?
Overclock will help!
Repaste all the things!
Thats how it's supposed to look
I mean, I saw one guy who had a dying gpu and people told him to stress test it and tell them the temps. Of course the gpu is going to die, there's ways he might be able to salvage it but not if he cooks it to get numbers.
I don't post much there, but I do sometimes. I do read it a lot though and the forum as a whole is turning into a total joke. There is a good reason people will suggest this (although not always). If someone says, "my video card has been acting up recently"; without being there to notice and observe non-quantifiable differences in the "before" and "after" effect, and since most of these problems stem from overheating or throttling, it's not bad advice to suggest stress testing.There's not much difference between playing a beefy game on max settings and stress testing; and at least you can verify it's not overheating and throttling. Anyways, I think Jingle becoming a tech mod would be funny and should work; and highly reminiscent of how Chill became Strategy mod. On the bolded part, a lot of that has to do with whether they mention panic temps at which point testing should be stopped. And on whether they discussed cleaning first. I don't disagree with stressing, but I know sometimes the phrasing can turn it into bad advice. On the last bit, as much as I'd love to see someone doing the job, I'm not sure I would want the PMs from people I dealt with. I also doubt most of the staff would even begin to consider that an option, with my temper. Like I said, highly reminiscent of Chill becoming a mod. Lol. I'm thinking it can be done the way it has been so far ie contribute and report until you get noticed. Except make your reports really detailed and explain in them why someone is posting shit. Back that up with links to some good tech sites... Or let's do something different - let the contributors nominated here as tech support forum banlings form a sort of committee, create a thread "[D] warn/ban this poster for bad advice" in tech support and let the committee debate about wrong doings of other posters there.
A lot of people, especially regulars, are not going to want to write a dissertation every time someone posts something incorrect, stupid, etc.
I mean, usually, if it's small enough to be explainable, it's not big enough to warrant a warning.
But if it's big enough to write an explanation, it can be very long. Just look at this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345897¤tpage=2
The amount of bad and irrelevant information is ridiculous. I stopped because to offset a half-page rant that includes dumb logic and misinformation is going to take a post several times longer to explain why it's bad information.
I mean really, the answer is quite simple. If you have a budget of $300-350, don't even think about streaming.
I don't even know; I just went on a rant about other people's rant. Blah.
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Yeah, part of the problem is that the only recourse to horrendous posting is to write a fucking novel explaining what's wrong. I don't see doing so in the report field rather than in the thread as part of the solution. Totally with jacosajh on this one.
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Canada11350 Posts
To be honest, I can't remember the last time I've dealt with a Tech Report. I look at it and have no clue whether it's bad advice or not. The best I can hope for is paying attention to who are the true vets of Tech Support and act on their reports alone. I personally would love a Tech mod.
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Skyr or Jinglehell would make great tech mods - both have been around for a long time and have proven themselves countless times.
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On June 19 2012 09:33 HackBenjamin wrote:
Skyr or Jinglehell would make great tech mods - both have been around for a long time and have proven themselves countless times.
If I honestly thought I could be part of the solution, I'd be ok with that. But ignoring the part where I doubt the staff would have me, fixing bad advice would require harshness and severity of the kind that would involve a lot of tears, and given the fact that I've already got... a bit of a reputation, I think it would be a lot of extra drama if it was me, and not someone better qualified, like skyR, Myrm, or Wom.
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skyR is off conquering the D3 universe.
He hardly ever graces the toilet bowl that is Tech Support anymore, it seems.
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On June 19 2012 10:41 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 09:33 HackBenjamin wrote:
Skyr or Jinglehell would make great tech mods - both have been around for a long time and have proven themselves countless times. If I honestly thought I could be part of the solution, I'd be ok with that. But ignoring the part where I doubt the staff would have me, fixing bad advice would require harshness and severity of the kind that would involve a lot of tears, and given the fact that I've already got... a bit of a reputation, I think it would be a lot of extra drama if it was me, and not someone better qualified, like skyR, Myrm, or Wom.
Not that I want to be a jerk about it, but skyR has his own reputation. Unfortunately it's an environment which cultivates.. reputations.
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none of you currently complaining in this thread would make a good tech mod for the simple fact that these threads you're complaining about you don't post in at all. your job as regulars is to educate the less knowledgable forum-goers. i don't care if you tear some asshole a new one, in fact, i'd rather you do it than me banning him because it leads to more discussion and people can learn from it, but that doesn't mean the second some guy makes a mistake you should jump on his ass like it's some feeding frenzy. treat the guy like a human being first.
i'll admit that i haven't been moderating as much as i used to and i'll try to step up again (i have no where near as much time as i used to but ill make more of an effort to check regularly). pm me if you have specific stuff you want me to address, or better yet take two seconds to tell the guy he's wrong. you don't have to write a giant post, tell him he's wrong and throw him a link, most people aren't adverse to learning as long as you aren't being a dick about it.
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i also know how hard it is to keep from being burnt out and don't think for a second that i doubt how awesome you guys are to even keep posting in tech and giving great advice. i've had my fair share of altercations (look up a fellow by the name of joey.rumz LOL) but remember to keep it to the points when you want to call someone out. save the sweet insults for when they are being especially ignorant (believe me it makes them sweeter).
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EPT
