You said that you did worse as the game progressed. This means you might not have enough workers. If this is the case, you should try to keep constant probe production. Keep working on your macro ;D.
How good are bronze, silver, and gold players? [R] - Page 4
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maekuuu
United States11 Posts
You said that you did worse as the game progressed. This means you might not have enough workers. If this is the case, you should try to keep constant probe production. Keep working on your macro ;D. | ||
Keap
United States214 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
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Coeus1
Finland158 Posts
i.e. You know you should scout - you don't scout enough. You know you should macro like crazy but you forget | ||
kalendae
United States47 Posts
best examples are people who come and scout, run around do harass like the pros but have no timing and leave before i plop down the key tech without even delaying it. its like what did u just do that for? you need to come up with something that works at ur level and get it good then keep improving until you really GET why the pros do what they do. You are approaching things backwards. Come up with something you understand yourself, have it fail, then use pro replays and tl as a resource to figure out the next step. don't try to 'be like the pros' right away it will just make you fall flat on your face and really reduce ur learning curve. this is obviously all assumptions, but i've already seen many similar cases. | ||
Amprophet
93 Posts
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
On August 09 2010 19:56 SpaceJam wrote: I see that most players that post here on TL are plat/diamond level, and it doesn't seem like what they're (especially plat.) doing is much more complex than what I'm doing, and I honestly don't know how I'm getting beaten by players of these lower tiers that I'm being pitted against. That is quite a problem for new Players to Starcraft/Starcraft 2. It's quite good to dive your head into strategies and guides, but it's only a small percentage of winning games. The level of skill is enourmous in SC2 and if you haven't played in beta, it's quite hard to get into a league higher than gold if you don't have quite some experience with SCBW. So, if you have a problem against some players, don't just expect that something magically is wrong with your play.. just do what you do, but try to get perfect in it... Starcraft is a game of perfection where every second counts and every mistake gets punished. So, what you said ther isn't wrong, plat or diamond players don't do much more complex things, but they have trained their reflexes, meaning that they've speed and accurate responses to certain situations. Often, it's just a small mistake that looses you the game and you have to analyse your replays to find those mistakes. You need to improve step by step. If you have this large blob of things to do and things to improve in your head, you overthink and don't count on your instinct. If you have strategies you will play very well until you are pushed into situations you aren't familiar with. Good players or even certain maps or starting positions can force you into such situations. So, be sure to understand those special situations like small rush distances, close air distances and try to use them to your advantage. Don't just push knowledge into your brain, try to understand the "WHY'S" and "HOW's". | ||
CROrens
Croatia1005 Posts
On August 09 2010 20:05 Reo wrote: I think its like Silver players do a different build each game/make 15 workers all game. Gold players have a build that they do 100% of the time/cheeze and that wins them 50% of there games ...but thats just IMO. you gota be kidding, right? what are bronze and copper players then, 3 year olds? | ||
overt
United States9006 Posts
Honestly as a new SC player cheese is by far the hardest thing to deal with especially since it happens almost every game. That or I play a Terran/Protoss who turtles up all game. It seems like on the lower levels there's only two ways to play and I never see creative plays from my opponents, sure sometimes I won't play creatively either but I certainly don't just turtle or cheese every game which is what I come up against all the time. I just hope that Diamond level play is better than what I've seen of the Gold/Platinum players because I'm pretty sure the skill level of the bottom four ladders is heavily blurred. | ||
sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
Now I'm in plat and I try to scout lots, I know unit counters, I know how to expand, I know lots of builds, etc. | ||
Yung
United States727 Posts
On August 09 2010 20:05 Reo wrote: I think its like Silver players do a different build each game/make 15 workers all game. Gold players have a build that they do 100% of the time/cheeze and that wins them 50% of there games ...but thats just IMO. ya a gold strat is voidrays if they die you leave and say "fuck you" but just play better, and watch your base for chesse and dont be afaid to use probes to kill chesse im won every game i goten chessed in with uses probes. | ||
nalho
United States351 Posts
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T3mpus
25 Posts
A couple of advice: 1) Try to scout earlier and for longer time and see what villain is doing 2) Adjust your own game plan/build order the most optimal way you can, based on your scouting results. 3) Pick one or two effective and flexible build order and practice them as much as you can. 4) Use and cycle cycle cycle cycle hotkeys all the time for better macro performance. This way unit producing becomes a second nature and you really dont have to think about it while microing your army. | ||
Opinion
United States236 Posts
Here is my opinion: There is general knowledge you need, plus ability to execute. Take everything there is to know about SC2 Plus the ability to execute this knowledge in real time and you get a percentage of SC2 mastery. Knowledge: 0 - 100% Execution: 0 - 100% Add them up, divide by 2. So if i know every single thing about the game possible (100%), and you can apply it to the game 75% of the time, you are probably around 87%, Platinum. Bronze: 0 - 65% Silver: 65 - 75% Gold: 75 - 85% Platinum: 85 - 95% Diamond: 95 - 100% Pros are players who know damn near everything and the experience to pull it off. They would sit at 99- 100% *Warning: This is not based on actual science* | ||
Seam
United States1093 Posts
On August 09 2010 20:19 Inori wrote: + Show Spoiler + From my observations: Bronze: have no idea that TL.net, BOs, timings and etc exist. They just build what they feel like building. Silver: they have a basic idea about BOs, timings, but that's about where it ends. They know that they should build this and that, but why and when - no. Gold: they've learned a couple of BOs and what counters what, but they're too afraid to experiment yet and just use the same BO game after game after game without understanding what and whys behind it. Plat: they've learned different starts for different maps and etc, basically their BO knowledge doesn't differ much from Diamond, but what does differ is how they perform it. It's all about the little things like send a building worker early and when to pull off guys from gas and etc. Also they neither micro nor macro in battles. They just stare untill the last unit dies and then come back to their base with 2k+ mins stockpiled. I really like how you put that, and working my way up from Bronze to top 20 Plat, I agree.(Granted I was Plat in beta and just did horrible in placements x_x). I'm noticing that, personally(Being Plat), I know when I should change up my build, I macro during battles fairly well(Keeping Larva down), and I know my BO well. But it's stuff like Micro, scouting, and little things like you said that are what I mess up with. What you said about the other leagues fits almost perfectly, also. | ||
Karliath
United States2214 Posts
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PanzerDragoon
United States822 Posts
On August 10 2010 03:12 overt wrote: In my opinion, the laddering system is a joke and shouldn't be taken very seriously. It's really just an e-peen sort of measure, prime example, I got put into Bronze and yet I am constantly getting matched against Gold and Platinum players whom I beat about 50-60% of the time yet am still in Bronze due to the mass amount of cheese I still lose to from Silver/Gold players. Honestly as a new SC player cheese is by far the hardest thing to deal with especially since it happens almost every game. That or I play a Terran/Protoss who turtles up all game. It seems like on the lower levels there's only two ways to play and I never see creative plays from my opponents, sure sometimes I won't play creatively either but I certainly don't just turtle or cheese every game which is what I come up against all the time. I just hope that Diamond level play is better than what I've seen of the Gold/Platinum players because I'm pretty sure the skill level of the bottom four ladders is heavily blurred. If you consistently lose to cheese from bronze/silver players you probably just aren't that good. Its one of the most important things to learn | ||
holydevil
United States145 Posts
Example: They make mass stalkers. I make mass speedlings. They continue to make mass stalkers and lose. I think the Help menu in SC2 is the most helpful Help menu ever. When I lose it is usually due to me not scouting them enough. Also, I am really bad in ZvZ (prob like 30% win) match-ups but I tend to win ZvP (70% win) and break even on ZvT (50-60%). I only point out my failings to possibly give you guys other things to look at besides the macro/micro element that a lot of people are commenting on. Also, I haven't read the entire thread so all of this has probably been repeated. Just trying to help out and learn. HD | ||
silencesc
United States464 Posts
Lower level players cheese, higher level players trust in their macro and don't as often. This will change when all the gold and silver 8 rax reapers and 6 pools and proxy gates get promoted to platinum, get owned hard by someone who scouts, defends and rapes them, and they eventually go standard builds, lose a lot, and get bumped back down. It will all even out in a couple months, but really the only real strategy difference I can see if the frequency of all-ins and cheese. | ||
Deathfairy
148 Posts
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