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http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/185_Byzantium
TvZ: 4-0 (100%) ZvP: 0-5 (0%) PvT: 0-3 (0%)
What is the reason why Zerg is lacking wins @ Byzantium? - Is it because expansion builds for terran/protoss is too secure (pool builds loses its meaning)?
- Or because most zergs are not par with terran/protoss players?
- Perhaps 4th base is too hard for zerg to secure while protoss can storm with 3 base (lack of 3-4 gas)?
I think most of zergs playing this map have been "B class" zergs excluding luxury and savior of course so we couldn't get good stable/working build for other zergs to shine and lead way.
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i think it's too soon to tell. the zvp's are all vs good tosses and the zergs arent THAT good so .. hard to tell really... i dont see any imbalance on that map so i think it's the players. correct me someone
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It's like _Grazze_ said, it's too soon to tell because only so many games have been played. All three Protoss/Zerg/Terran loses could have been from the same person.
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Yeah, exactly. Especially when there are less than 10 games of each MU. Just give it time for players to adapt to the map, learn about it, and how to play on it. After it is used more, then the balance will show its true colors.
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On August 19 2008 02:11 DeathTray wrote: Yeah, exactly. Especially when there are less than 10 games of each MU. Just give it time for players to adapt to the map, learn about it, and how to play on it. After it is used more, then the balance will show its true colors.
Lots of people do say that more games need to be played but the thing is that barely any zergs are left (MSL so far 2 guys) and they might ditch this map after this season based on those games they played so far. So that means this map will be forgotten as unbalanced map.
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I'm not too fond of this map--and those of the OSL as well actually. I would not be disappointed to see this map leave (however, im in love with plasma.)
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Basically small nat chokes like Byzantium's are good for vZ - easier for T to push the nat and fewer cannon needed for P to defend.
Not sure about lategame, I haven't seen many long games on this map.
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I'm with the give-it-time team. No one is gonna ditch the map for next season based on less than 10 games per MU.
The zerg games I've watched on it were even close games where the zerg only loses because of very clear and specific mistakes (such as Luxury clearly bad scourging vs a terran). It's not like it has been zergs outplaying others but getting rolled over because of map characteristics.
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but the matchups show not as good terrans beating better protoss/zerg players for example, memory beating bisu or darkelf beating luxury
i havent seen the games, but those dont sound right to me at all
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rofl, only terran have won on that map... >.<
EDIT i'm a fucktard:...except for protoss
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On August 19 2008 20:59 kpcrew(Gg) wrote: but the matchups show not as good terrans beating better protoss/zerg players for example, memory beating bisu or darkelf beating luxury
i havent seen the games, but those dont sound right to me at all
proxy fac vs proxy robo ending in an elimination race is a good way to judge map balance.
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I'm not sure about ZvP, but in ZvT, those structure forming the choke helps T a lot with their seige tanks. It's really hard to get out of that choke if contained. Since for Terran it is easy to wall and get an easy expansion, mass lings becomes ineffective. Upmagic vs Savior on Byzantium is a good example.
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I've yet to play this map yet, but it's pretty obvioius from just looking why zergs would hate ZvT here. The choke infront of your nat is really tight, and even your third doesn't offer a whole lot of flanking space.
Plus, it's not like there's a ton of room in base, so tanks on those cliffs could certainly damage some units and make it a bitch to control a bunch of lings or whatever going nuts because they're getting splashed by tanks.
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you remember monty hall?? zergs always lose the games before silver build, and after that zerg was nearly imba.. i think its too early for analyze the balance of this map, but all theories are valid in this momment. Wait 2 weeks more.
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I'm sure that there is still room for adapting. Give the map some time before judging it again
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Not only is zerg 0-9 vs P and T, but P is 0-3 vs T. Without even seeing the games, it seems likely to me that the problem is a lack of space for flanking, particularly around the edges of the map. Example: imagine an army moving from their base at 10 to your base at 1: how do you flank it? The answer is, you can't, at least not very effectively. =/
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Problem is, their aren't that many quality zergs these days to really make the map look balanced. Say all you want about the map pool, but think most players with potential are choosing terran or protoss and few are choosing zerg. So almost any map is going to look a tad imbalanced from the zerg standpoint.
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Get Jaedong to play this map. He loses = map auto unbalanced.
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