Pylon Show: Good is something we do, not something we are.…
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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h20Fanatic
22 Posts
It's almost like everyone responding to me is ignoring the fact that there are laws in place for this sort of thing, they were violated and that you are ignoring that if an organization had been following the law, multiple abuses in a linked thread wouldn't have occurred. How come you are okay with holding people accountable but fine with an organization facilitate a hostile work environment for years, in this very gaming scene. Why is that? Do you think there is a financial conflict of interest at hand? | ||
JohnDelaney
Ireland73 Posts
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h20Fanatic
22 Posts
On July 09 2020 12:44 JohnDelaney wrote: I agree with some of what you said (ie. the show could've focused a little more on forming company/organization policies and less about lecturing the Starcraft community about consent, etc.) but you're not going to be taken seriously with your overly confrontational tone, using incendiary terms like "SJWism," and starting your argument by giving yourself black-and-white labels like being "anti-drama" over a topic like this. Clearly you're not actually "anti-drama" and have strong opinions over this when you're typing up a bunch of paragraphs. I think you must be mistaken, i'm very civil here. I'm asking questions. I believe in staying on topic instead of judging forum users for asking questions. I can understand that i'm asking very serious hard hitting questions. Questions that probably make you feel unsettled and maybe unsure of what to say. You don't have to mistake simple questions for an "overly confrontational tone", it's okay i forgive you. much love. I'm just asking questions. Do you have any answers to the questions I asked? | ||
johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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h20Fanatic
22 Posts
On July 09 2020 13:30 johnnywup wrote: You can tell someone has an empathy problem when they're more irritated at being exposed to an issue than the issue itself It's a real shame that people did bad stuff to other people and It leaves us with serious questions left to be asked that should probably be answered. It super sucks that there are victims of abuse, i wish them a speedy recovery and hopefully they have receive the comfort and love from the their friends and family to bring them through the tough times to heal. Do you think organizations/companies should be held accountable for facilitating a hostile work environment since it is against the law? Why did it go on for so long? Do you think there is a financial conflict of interest at hand as to why influencers aren't demanding a safer work environment or accountability for the company/organization involved in a incident in a linked thread. i'm also curious if you also might have any answers for the questions i asked earlier the thread as well. This is interesting to discuss with you. | ||
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On July 09 2020 14:17 h20Fanatic wrote: It's a real shame that people did bad stuff to other people and It leaves us with serious questions left to be asked that should probably be answered. It super sucks that there are victims of abuse, i wish them a speedy recovery and hopefully they have receive the comfort and love from the their friends and family to bring them through the tough times to heal. Do you think organizations/companies should be held accountable for facilitating a hostile work environment since it is against the law? Why did it go on for so long? Do you think there is a financial conflict of interest at hand as to why influencers aren't demanding a safer work environment or accountability for the company/organization involved in a incident in a linked thread. i'm also curious if you also might have any answers for the questions i asked earlier the thread as well. This is interesting to discuss with you. Is everything you type just attempts at deflection? The failures of various organizations or companies to properly address harassment does not mean that the community doesn't have a role in enabling all this, or that the community can't foster an environment where harassment is less often ignored. Additionally the Pylon Show is a talk show aimed at the community, and as such it addresses things that can be done at the community level. The fact that the Pylon Show covered this issue does not mean that people aren't also trying to improve things at organizational levels. Your speculation about "financial conflict of interest" is just bullshit you're coming up with to derail things. You seem quite set on the idea that the Pylon Show should not discuss this despite the fact that the Pylon Show covers basically all large Starcraft related news or discussion, and whether you like it or not this is Starcraft news. However, no one is forcing you to watch. | ||
dbRic1203
Germany2649 Posts
Just to come back to this, where someone, who s "Anti-drama" created a new Account just to discuss this Talking about it for more awarness in the community and taking reactions on corporate Level are NOT mutually exclusive. Apollo, Who s in charge of the SC2 Major tournament organisation, tweeted about it and I m 100% sure je will put policies and authorities in place when Offline Events are Back. So that everyone visiting a Sc2 event can be mich more safer. But it doesn t stop there. In some of the stories thatcame to light, a more aware community would have helped a lot, so this "just talking about it" defnatly helps as well. And if people like you whom are uninterestet in following a sport, that tries to be more inclusive and safe for everyone, are leaveing it for good, that s more a good thing than a bad thing as well. | ||
h20Fanatic
22 Posts
On July 09 2020 15:12 dbRic1203 wrote: Here I am thinking we on TL . Net widly agreed in this topic and made a dumb, sarcastic reply to an even dumber comment. Just to come back to this, where someone, who s "Anti-drama" created a new Account just to discuss this Talking about it for more awarness in the community and taking reactions on corporate Level are NOT mutually exclusive. Apollo, Who s in charge of the SC2 Major tournament organisation, tweeted about it and I m 100% sure je will put policies and authorities in place when Offline Events are Back. So that everyone visiting a Sc2 event can be mich more safer. But it doesn t stop there. In some of the stories thatcame to light, a more aware community would have helped a lot, so this "just talking about it" defnatly helps as well. And if people like you whom are uninterestet in following a sport, that tries to be more inclusive and safe for everyone, are leaveing it for good, that s more a good thing than a bad thing as well. I prefer to stay on topic. After all, the influencers did do a section on accountability in this very video so I believe the questions I asked are valid. you want things to be safer, I couldn't agree more, i'm with you buddy. That's why I am asking where is accountability for an organization/company that facilitated a hostile work environment for years? What new company policies do these organizations plan to put in place to maintain and facilitate a safe work environment and how do they plan to enforce them? We're all concerned about the safety of everyone here ans we should also need to think of the employees and the work environment. What do they plan to do about that? How come the influencers didn't talk about that? Why aren't they demanding accountability for an organization/company, according to a linked thread by another user, in which multiple abuses took place in? Organizations are responsible for keeping a safe work environment. Is it possible that there is a financial conflict of interest at hand as to why influencers stayed silent/didn't touch on this specific portion of the subject of accountability? I'm very curious as this pertains specifically to a topic they covered in the video, accountability. I love following esports . Go Go team liquid | ||
goiflin
Canada1217 Posts
On July 09 2020 15:26 h20Fanatic wrote: I prefer to stay on topic. After all, the influencers did do a section on accountability in this very video so I believe the questions I asked are valid. you want things to be safer, I couldn't agree more, i'm with you buddy. That's why I am asking where is accountability for an organization/company that facilitated a hostile work environment for years? What new company policies do these organizations plan to put in place to maintain and facilitate a safe work environment and how do they plan to enforce them? We're all concerned about the safety of everyone here ans we should also need to think of the employees and the work environment. What do they plan to do about that? How come the influencers didn't talk about that? Why aren't they demanding accountability for an organization/company, according to a linked thread by another user, in which multiple abuses took place in? Organizations are responsible for keeping a safe work environment. Is it possible that there is a financial conflict of interest at hand as to why influencers stayed silent/didn't touch on this specific portion of the subject of accountability? I'm very curious as this pertains specifically to a topic they covered in the video, accountability. I love following esports . Go Go team liquid We should be asking what organizations are going to do about it going forward. We should also discuss the personal experiences these people have suffered in these situations and support them. These are not mutually exclusive. There doesn't need to be some grand conspiracy about conflict of interest. There's no need to draw lines about this sort of thing. It is disgusting that these people suffered these offenses. It isn't "SJWism" to discuss people being sexually harassed and calling out people for doing that sort of thing. It also isn't "SJWism" to ask organizations to also do their part in ensuring these sorts of environments aren't fostered. EVO is currently in the process of excising their tumors as it were. I'm sure others will follow suit, and it can't hurt to ask them why they aren't. If you want to do your part, why don't you go on twitter and ask them what their plan is moving forward? | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
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h20Fanatic
22 Posts
On July 09 2020 16:39 goiflin wrote: We should be asking what organizations are going to do about it going forward. We should also discuss the personal experiences these people have suffered in these situations and support them. These are not mutually exclusive. There doesn't need to be some grand conspiracy about conflict of interest. There's no need to draw lines about this sort of thing. It is disgusting that these people suffered these offenses. It isn't "SJWism" to discuss people being sexually harassed and calling out people for doing that sort of thing. It also isn't "SJWism" to ask organizations to also do their part in ensuring these sorts of environments aren't fostered. EVO is currently in the process of excising their tumors as it were. I'm sure others will follow suit, and it can't hurt to ask them why they aren't. If you want to do your part, why don't you go on twitter and ask them what their plan is moving forward? No one said anything about a conspiracy. But really...influencers talk about accountability in the video. But what about accountability for the organization/company? How long did this permit. Are you aware a company has a duty to maintain a safe work environment? Many things i'm reading in the thread that happened are against the law. Do you think these people and organization(s)/company(ies) should get off scott free? Or do you think they should be held accountable for breaking the law? I asked a lot of other adults in my neighborhood the same thing, they like wait what? Some thing is fishy going on there they said, possibly even a financial conflict of interest when it comes to the influencers not mentioning anything about company accoutability they said. These people need to speak up they said. EDIT: These parents aren't happy to see whats going on. Ya'll may have to deal with outrage from these parents of children in the community, I think they are starting to question as to whether or not online streamers are attempting to raise and influence their kids without parental consent as if the kids were their own. They also mentioned they were worried whether or not their kids are being groomed. | ||
Lambertus
South Africa948 Posts
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
Personally, I'm very happy that the Pylon Show doesn't only talk about Starcraft. Of course, Starcraft should be the main focus, but imho, it's childish to pretend that the game isn't part of a bigger ecosystem. | ||
h20Fanatic
22 Posts
What are the plans to hold them accountable? What about the employees? What about the organization? Should people and the organization just be let off scott free and not suffer consequences for the actions that caused such pain and distress? The organization can be legally held accountable for this in addition to individuals responsible for the abuse(though that is under way if i'm not mistaken). There can be real true justice across the entire scope of issues at hand. Ya'll want real change, well, you gotta do things right and hold them all accountable, right? Or do you guys n gals prefer selective enforcement of laws? | ||
Zidane
United States1683 Posts
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Lambertus
South Africa948 Posts
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goiflin
Canada1217 Posts
On July 09 2020 17:42 h20Fanatic wrote: No one said anything about a conspiracy. But really...influencers talk about accountability in the video. But what about accountability for the organization/company? How long did this permit. Are you aware a company has a duty to maintain a safe work environment? Many things i'm reading in the thread that happened are against the law. Do you think these people and organization(s)/company(ies) should get off scott free? Or do you think they should be held accountable for breaking the law? I asked a lot of other adults in my neighborhood the same thing, they like wait what? Some thing is fishy going on there they said, possibly even a financial conflict of interest when it comes to the influencers not mentioning anything about company accoutability they said. These people need to speak up they said. EDIT: These parents aren't happy to see whats going on. Ya'll may have to deal with outrage from these parents of children in the community, I think they are starting to question as to whether or not online streamers are attempting to raise and influence their kids without parental consent as if the kids were their own. They also mentioned they were worried whether or not their kids are being groomed. You are specifically drawing lines exactly like a conspiracy theorist, and drawing conclusions not only about organizations, but others in the thread. At no point had I stated I was okay with organizations getting off scott free, and yet here you are making those accusations. You're completely derailing the conversation. Again, as I stated, and you so kindly ignored, these are not mutually exclusive questions. As I stated, you need to go on twitter and ask these organizations what they plan on doing, but you dodged that entirely. Which is funny considering; It appears that everyone dodges the "tough" questions about the situation. You dodge any sort of personal responsibility to proactively work towards a future where people in e-sports don't have to worry about these awful experiences. Therefore, I don't think you're arguing in good faith. Which shouldn't be surprising considering your first post on TL.net had "SJWism" in it. | ||
Zidane
United States1683 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
On July 10 2020 06:40 Zidane wrote: The guy is literally propping up a strawman argument that no one is making then poking holes into his own premise lol. Sorry cancel culture has you all bent out of shape. I can imagine debating this guy on things like BLM and the existence of White Privilege, he'd probably flip his shit. Haha all I was thinking about was this as I read this h20Fanatic's posts: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman So glad someone else saw it! On July 09 2020 11:58 h20Fanatic wrote: How come you are okay with holding people accountable but fine with an organization facilitate a hostile work environment for years, in this very gaming scene. Let me answer that question... even though that lacks a question mark... Not a single person said it was okay. You're trying to manipulate people and use false equivalency to prove something. That only works on fools. And it is only spouted by fools. That's why it's a strawman. I'm seriously impressed with the rest of the people here. TL is the best forum, it's too good for people like me honestly. | ||
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