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On April 29 2019 21:02 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 20:44 Harris1st wrote:On April 29 2019 20:24 Ej_ wrote:On April 29 2019 18:56 Harris1st wrote:On April 29 2019 17:27 deacon.frost wrote:On April 27 2019 06:49 Dave4 wrote:On April 27 2019 06:40 deacon.frost wrote:Such a huge advantage, just look at Rogue, what an awesome 2019 is he having. Or sOs... JAGW house such advantegeous the won IEM. oh, no. They won WESG. Oh, no. Ah, the GSL... Like, seriously? Again? What a huge advantage they have... (well, considering the best paying tourney in KOrea is Code S it makes kinda sense, but doesn't make sense for IEM or Blizzcon, right? ) Edit> On par with Serral? Serrral won 4 foreigner tournaments while being top 4 player!!! That's like celebrating Ronaldo being able to win against amateurs... c'mon. Code S at least still has the top players (Except Serral) As I said I think those tournaments are more 'anyones game' so not surprising that soO, Inno and Classic took out the most recent weekenders really.. Yes Serral also went on a 9 month undefeated streak you might recall (nothing comparable in sc2 history) which included a GSL and BlizzCon so I think it is certainly worth mentioning. 4 of those months were against foreigners, I say we replace Serral with Dark(or any other top Korean) and see if they can do this at WCS. That's nonsense, if you claim the teamhouse has such a huge advantage these players would be better. Dark's ZvZ isn't anywhere near Serral's ZvZ, sooooo pretty sure no, Dark couldn't with the ZvZ heavy top in EU You actually think Dark wouldn't beat foreigners in bo5? What the fuck hahahaha :D I actually think Serral >>>>> Dark in ZvZ, yes On April 29 2019 19:54 Argonauta wrote: Noup. Neeb Kespa Cup much more close to a GSL than the showmatch tournamet Serral won. Just because it has a branding name doesnt mean it is a GSL A tournament with a 100.000 $ is NOT a showmatch tournament... This is almost 4 times of what ST pays It is a showmatch because there were no qualifiers, just a popular voting about who could attend with a lot of extra invitees.
The vote is a vote, can't argue with that
The invites were to the best players in their respective areas. You qualify with beeing one of those. Like Blizzcon invites the top 8 players with the most points
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On April 29 2019 20:44 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 20:24 Ej_ wrote:On April 29 2019 18:56 Harris1st wrote:On April 29 2019 17:27 deacon.frost wrote:On April 27 2019 06:49 Dave4 wrote:On April 27 2019 06:40 deacon.frost wrote:Such a huge advantage, just look at Rogue, what an awesome 2019 is he having. Or sOs... JAGW house such advantegeous the won IEM. oh, no. They won WESG. Oh, no. Ah, the GSL... Like, seriously? Again? What a huge advantage they have... (well, considering the best paying tourney in KOrea is Code S it makes kinda sense, but doesn't make sense for IEM or Blizzcon, right? ) Edit> On par with Serral? Serrral won 4 foreigner tournaments while being top 4 player!!! That's like celebrating Ronaldo being able to win against amateurs... c'mon. Code S at least still has the top players (Except Serral) As I said I think those tournaments are more 'anyones game' so not surprising that soO, Inno and Classic took out the most recent weekenders really.. Yes Serral also went on a 9 month undefeated streak you might recall (nothing comparable in sc2 history) which included a GSL and BlizzCon so I think it is certainly worth mentioning. 4 of those months were against foreigners, I say we replace Serral with Dark(or any other top Korean) and see if they can do this at WCS. That's nonsense, if you claim the teamhouse has such a huge advantage these players would be better. Dark's ZvZ isn't anywhere near Serral's ZvZ, sooooo pretty sure no, Dark couldn't with the ZvZ heavy top in EU You actually think Dark wouldn't beat foreigners in bo5? What the fuck hahahaha :D I actually think Serral >>>>> Dark in ZvZ, yes Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 19:54 Argonauta wrote: Noup. Neeb Kespa Cup much more close to a GSL than the showmatch tournamet Serral won. Just because it has a branding name doesnt mean it is a GSL A tournament with a 100.000 $ is NOT a showmatch tournament... This is almost 4 times of what ST pays Dark has the best Korean record against foreigners not named Serral, so think again.
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On April 29 2019 21:49 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 20:44 Harris1st wrote:On April 29 2019 20:24 Ej_ wrote:On April 29 2019 18:56 Harris1st wrote:On April 29 2019 17:27 deacon.frost wrote:On April 27 2019 06:49 Dave4 wrote:On April 27 2019 06:40 deacon.frost wrote:Such a huge advantage, just look at Rogue, what an awesome 2019 is he having. Or sOs... JAGW house such advantegeous the won IEM. oh, no. They won WESG. Oh, no. Ah, the GSL... Like, seriously? Again? What a huge advantage they have... (well, considering the best paying tourney in KOrea is Code S it makes kinda sense, but doesn't make sense for IEM or Blizzcon, right? ) Edit> On par with Serral? Serrral won 4 foreigner tournaments while being top 4 player!!! That's like celebrating Ronaldo being able to win against amateurs... c'mon. Code S at least still has the top players (Except Serral) As I said I think those tournaments are more 'anyones game' so not surprising that soO, Inno and Classic took out the most recent weekenders really.. Yes Serral also went on a 9 month undefeated streak you might recall (nothing comparable in sc2 history) which included a GSL and BlizzCon so I think it is certainly worth mentioning. 4 of those months were against foreigners, I say we replace Serral with Dark(or any other top Korean) and see if they can do this at WCS. That's nonsense, if you claim the teamhouse has such a huge advantage these players would be better. Dark's ZvZ isn't anywhere near Serral's ZvZ, sooooo pretty sure no, Dark couldn't with the ZvZ heavy top in EU You actually think Dark wouldn't beat foreigners in bo5? What the fuck hahahaha :D I actually think Serral >>>>> Dark in ZvZ, yes On April 29 2019 19:54 Argonauta wrote: Noup. Neeb Kespa Cup much more close to a GSL than the showmatch tournamet Serral won. Just because it has a branding name doesnt mean it is a GSL A tournament with a 100.000 $ is NOT a showmatch tournament... This is almost 4 times of what ST pays Dark has the best Korean record against foreigners not named Serral, so think again.
Not if you only look at 2018.
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Maru is definitely there by results, I don't see how anyone can argue about that. He's not the only titan in SC2, but he can't be denied from being at the top of the conversation.
To suggest otherwise is pure fandom, either against him or for someone else. As in, just think for a moment about what the word that gives us the term "fan".
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On April 18 2019 23:05 kajtarp wrote: Well i don't want to take anything from Maru, but with the power of the gls winner at group selection, he makes ridiculously easy group for himself every time, while creating group of deaths. He lost to Bunny in Ro16 and Impact almost eliminated him. What would have happened if he is in a group death instead?
Well no we know the answer. Have fun in group of deaths in the upcoming GSL's Maru
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stephano is and always will be the GOAT
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On April 29 2019 22:09 zelevin wrote: stephano is and always will be the GOAT
Truth that only few can handle.
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On April 29 2019 22:22 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 22:09 zelevin wrote: stephano is and always will be the GOAT Truth that only few can handle.
In my heart always
Your sig says otherwise btw
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On April 29 2019 22:33 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 22:22 SinO[Ob] wrote:On April 29 2019 22:09 zelevin wrote: stephano is and always will be the GOAT Truth that only few can handle. In my heart always Your sig says otherwise btw
3 years after loosing sigbet you are the only one who actually read it. :> So yea just nvm it.
Stephano GOAT.
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On April 29 2019 21:55 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 23:05 kajtarp wrote: Well i don't want to take anything from Maru, but with the power of the gls winner at group selection, he makes ridiculously easy group for himself every time, while creating group of deaths. He lost to Bunny in Ro16 and Impact almost eliminated him. What would have happened if he is in a group death instead? Well no we know the answer. Have fun in group of deaths in the upcoming GSL's Maru
If he can qualify that is
On April 29 2019 22:37 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 22:33 Harris1st wrote:On April 29 2019 22:22 SinO[Ob] wrote:On April 29 2019 22:09 zelevin wrote: stephano is and always will be the GOAT Truth that only few can handle. In my heart always Your sig says otherwise btw 3 years after loosing sigbet you are the only one who actually read it. :> So yea just nvm it. Stephano GOAT.
Haha. Somehow catched my eye ^^
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On April 29 2019 22:37 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 22:33 Harris1st wrote:On April 29 2019 22:22 SinO[Ob] wrote:On April 29 2019 22:09 zelevin wrote: stephano is and always will be the GOAT Truth that only few can handle. In my heart always Your sig says otherwise btw 3 years after loosing sigbet you are the only one who actually read it. :> So yea just nvm it. Stephano GOAT.
Well, that signature is just blunt and outdated, not false; when KT Life was dominating Starcraft foreigners could not compare themselves to koreans.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On April 29 2019 21:55 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2019 23:05 kajtarp wrote: Well i don't want to take anything from Maru, but with the power of the gls winner at group selection, he makes ridiculously easy group for himself every time, while creating group of deaths. He lost to Bunny in Ro16 and Impact almost eliminated him. What would have happened if he is in a group death instead? Well no we know the answer. Have fun in group of deaths in the upcoming GSL's Maru He had to win the title in the first Code S to get the swap ability, didn't he? So... (and he's still good so others will try to avoid him)
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On April 29 2019 22:51 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 21:55 kajtarp wrote:On April 18 2019 23:05 kajtarp wrote: Well i don't want to take anything from Maru, but with the power of the gls winner at group selection, he makes ridiculously easy group for himself every time, while creating group of deaths. He lost to Bunny in Ro16 and Impact almost eliminated him. What would have happened if he is in a group death instead? Well no we know the answer. Have fun in group of deaths in the upcoming GSL's Maru He had to win the title in the first Code S to get the swap ability, didn't he? So... (and he's still good so others will try to avoid him)
It wasn't Protoss favored back then xD
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On April 29 2019 22:51 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 21:55 kajtarp wrote:On April 18 2019 23:05 kajtarp wrote: Well i don't want to take anything from Maru, but with the power of the gls winner at group selection, he makes ridiculously easy group for himself every time, while creating group of deaths. He lost to Bunny in Ro16 and Impact almost eliminated him. What would have happened if he is in a group death instead? Well no we know the answer. Have fun in group of deaths in the upcoming GSL's Maru He had to win the title in the first Code S to get the swap ability, didn't he? So... (and he's still good so others will try to avoid him)
Yes he had to. But this group was harder then his usual RO16 were. It was really boring what an easy groups he had all the time. Remember few years ago when Inno was considered the best and feared by most. In every group stage he was tossed around groups, paired together with TvT snipers Alive, TY, Gumiho etc. It took him 2 or 3 season to break this and eventually win GSL. Now i can see the same thing happening with Maru (unless a teammate wins GSL). Being switched into groups with TvT snipers, or even against sOs. Every time he qualifies RO16 he will be switched into group of deaths i'm almost certain.
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Something I wrote in another thread but should have been here I guess:
As a person who joined SC2 community recently but with a lot of BW experience, my opinion regarding Maru arguments is that SC2 looks to me as a much more let me find the word...I guess much more exploitable game, there are way too many ways to lose or to win. No matter how good you are prepared, how good is your macro, micro etc. you cant even get close to patch all the holes that can lose you a game. In that sense, players like Flash, Jaedong, Iloveoov etc from BW who were able to dominate every single game they played does not look achievable in SC2, at least in the state the game is atm, cannot comment for the previous expansions. So what Maru is doing atm is as close to what the BW bonjwas were doing as much as the game he plays allows it. Just my 2 cents.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On April 30 2019 00:30 M2 wrote: Something I wrote in another thread but should have been here I guess:
As a person who joined SC2 community recently but with a lot of BW experience, my opinion regarding Maru arguments is that SC2 looks to me as a much more let me find the word...I guess much more exploitable game, there are way too many ways to lose or to win. No matter how good you are prepared, how good is your macro, micro etc. you cant even get close to patch all the holes that can lose you a game. In that sense, players like Flash, Jaedong, Iloveoov etc from BW who were able to dominate every single game they played does not look achievable in SC2, at least in the state the game is atm, cannot comment for the previous expansions. So what Maru is doing atm is as close to what the BW bonjwas were doing as much as the game he plays allows it. Just my 2 cents. Some people were pointing this out when JD & Flash switched to SC2 without any reasonable success(considering their state in BW). And look now how's Flash in BW
On April 30 2019 00:04 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 22:51 deacon.frost wrote:On April 29 2019 21:55 kajtarp wrote:On April 18 2019 23:05 kajtarp wrote: Well i don't want to take anything from Maru, but with the power of the gls winner at group selection, he makes ridiculously easy group for himself every time, while creating group of deaths. He lost to Bunny in Ro16 and Impact almost eliminated him. What would have happened if he is in a group death instead? Well no we know the answer. Have fun in group of deaths in the upcoming GSL's Maru He had to win the title in the first Code S to get the swap ability, didn't he? So... (and he's still good so others will try to avoid him) Yes he had to. But this group was harder then his usual RO16 were. It was really boring what an easy groups he had all the time. Remember few years ago when Inno was considered the best and feared by most. In every group stage he was tossed around groups, paired together with TvT snipers Alive, TY, Gumiho etc. It took him 2 or 3 season to break this and eventually win GSL. Now i can see the same thing happening with Maru (unless a teammate wins GSL). Being switched into groups with TvT snipers, or even against sOs. Every time he qualifies RO16 he will be switched into group of deaths i'm almost certain. Doubt it, considering there are much worse names in the bracket every time. Like I believe that if Maru would have been in group selection Classic would be the one who will be flying left and right and not Maru(even without his power). And creating TvT group means that you have to survive those TvTs either which isn't exactly what you want when Maru can go - screw this, proxy times.
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On April 30 2019 00:34 deacon.frost wrote:Some people were pointing this out when JD & Flash switched to SC2 without any reasonable success(considering their state in BW). And look now how's Flash in BW
How is he? not playing because of health problems.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On April 30 2019 00:41 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 00:34 deacon.frost wrote:On April 30 2019 00:30 M2 wrote:
Some people were pointing this out when JD & Flash switched to SC2 without any reasonable success(considering their state in BW). And look now how's Flash in BW How is he? not playing because of health problems. I didn't mean JUST NOW, but after he switched from SC2 to BW. He was the sole reason of creation anti-terran maps...
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On April 30 2019 00:30 M2 wrote: Something I wrote in another thread but should have been here I guess:
As a person who joined SC2 community recently but with a lot of BW experience, my opinion regarding Maru arguments is that SC2 looks to me as a much more let me find the word...I guess much more exploitable game, there are way too many ways to lose or to win. No matter how good you are prepared, how good is your macro, micro etc. you cant even get close to patch all the holes that can lose you a game. In that sense, players like Flash, Jaedong, Iloveoov etc from BW who were able to dominate every single game they played does not look achievable in SC2, at least in the state the game is atm, cannot comment for the previous expansions. So what Maru is doing atm is as close to what the BW bonjwas were doing as much as the game he plays allows it. Just my 2 cents. I mean, Maru won 4 GSL's in a row which is a more dominant record in Starleagues than Flash ever had. If the tournament scene was the same as in BW with Starleagues being the only relevant individual tournament he'd definitely a bonjwa so I think the different tournament scene is the main reason.
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On April 30 2019 00:49 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 00:30 M2 wrote: Something I wrote in another thread but should have been here I guess:
As a person who joined SC2 community recently but with a lot of BW experience, my opinion regarding Maru arguments is that SC2 looks to me as a much more let me find the word...I guess much more exploitable game, there are way too many ways to lose or to win. No matter how good you are prepared, how good is your macro, micro etc. you cant even get close to patch all the holes that can lose you a game. In that sense, players like Flash, Jaedong, Iloveoov etc from BW who were able to dominate every single game they played does not look achievable in SC2, at least in the state the game is atm, cannot comment for the previous expansions. So what Maru is doing atm is as close to what the BW bonjwas were doing as much as the game he plays allows it. Just my 2 cents. I mean, Maru won 4 GSL's in a row which is a more dominant record in Starleagues than Flash ever had. If the tournament scene was the same as in BW with Starleagues being the only relevant individual tournament he'd definitely a bonjwa so I think the different tournament scene is the main reason.
While Maru in 2018/2019 won more consecutive Starleague than Flash did in 2010(four to three), Flash placed second in other two and had already won one that year(not mentioning he went on to triumph in WCG as well); moreover, he had to constantly face Jaedong who already was the best Zerg ever and the other contender for the throne of best player in Brood War while Maru's strongest rival did not even play in Korea.
If GSL had the same uncontested preminence OSL and MSL had in BW and if the korean scene were the only relevant one(as it could be the case in HoTS), Maru would have been bonjwa without a doubt.
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