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On July 10 2008 07:50 trollbone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 06:49 ThePhan2m wrote: thanks for the explenation, now that clears things up. However, Best is no way GGplay. GGplay didnt play like Best does now, he went trough OSL with lucky oppnements, he never really had it. Tbh whole that OSL was a joke, and GGplay winning that OSL was just showing Gods big joke of luck prepared for the BW world. Maybe a Stork, maybe... guess we only have to wait and see. There is more than just skills that we have to take into count. Sadly enough, there will be alot of pressure on Best. But anyhow, Julyzerg hasnt really shown his strenght yet either? To think he is the old July, the war of God is to be hopeful, his former oppenements hasnt exactly been top players. SO SATURDAY! here we come! *drums* Lol ? GGplay a joke ? He had to beat Hwasin first (who is always very good in TvZ), then Flash (who has always been a TvZ monster ) then defeated Iris in 5 brillant set That OSL was a joke ? Seriously it produced the best TvZ of 2007, a lot of amazing series, it was one of the Best OSL seriously (savior vs iris, hwasin vs GGplay, Flash vs GGplay, iris vs GGplay, the other matchup i dont remember) Lucky opponents ? O_O Ok thats all, i have lost faith in u - Fantasy gave GGplay advantage as a Z vs Hwasin, Hwasin getting the worst spawn location, GGplay the best. Sucky map with ZvT(8-2), no wonder it got removed. 2nd game hwasin owned him. 3rd game was a blast, going to end game, very even, but yes, GGplay has a decent endgame. - Flash was a rookie back then, and was defenitly not considered as hard an opponent. - Both the supreme players, Bisu and Savior lost very unluckly, Bisu getting cheesed 2 times vs Flash, and then Savior play vs his teammate lowering his odds with ALOT in a b03. - If GGplay was that good, he would have stayed on top longer, but fell right after the finals. - If im not mistaken, he is also the player with the worst stats ever reaching a final.
All luck for GGplay? you are defenitly beeing a little ignorant if you dont think some of it is. Compare this with a player like Mind winning MSL, crushing both Savior and Bisu. Now thats different. You are right if he would have played vs someone that was champion right then. And then last face Iris in the finals, that defenitly was the favorite and had the pressure, though Iris TvZ wasnt his strongest mu. GGplay played well in finals, only cuz he played vs someone closer to his level, producing amazing close games. If it was Savior or Bisu vs him in the finals, it would have been a total different case. He wouldnt have had a chance. But we never know.
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On July 11 2008 06:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 21:51 elias poncho wrote: Hey Steve, I just have a sort of random question. Do you also look at "unofficial" matches when you're deciding? (I'm thinking mostly of the averatec-intel tournament) I'm just curious. Also, if you do look at them, do the players performances carry less weight than in the official matches? I do, but the quality of opponent is often drastically lower in something like the averatec-intel classic. things like WWI i give absolutely no credit for
How is quality of player lower in averatec-intel. Absence of teams? Less practice? Or actually, worse players?
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On July 11 2008 22:39 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 07:50 trollbone wrote:On July 10 2008 06:49 ThePhan2m wrote: thanks for the explenation, now that clears things up. However, Best is no way GGplay. GGplay didnt play like Best does now, he went trough OSL with lucky oppnements, he never really had it. Tbh whole that OSL was a joke, and GGplay winning that OSL was just showing Gods big joke of luck prepared for the BW world. Maybe a Stork, maybe... guess we only have to wait and see. There is more than just skills that we have to take into count. Sadly enough, there will be alot of pressure on Best. But anyhow, Julyzerg hasnt really shown his strenght yet either? To think he is the old July, the war of God is to be hopeful, his former oppenements hasnt exactly been top players. SO SATURDAY! here we come! *drums* Lol ? GGplay a joke ? He had to beat Hwasin first (who is always very good in TvZ), then Flash (who has always been a TvZ monster ) then defeated Iris in 5 brillant set That OSL was a joke ? Seriously it produced the best TvZ of 2007, a lot of amazing series, it was one of the Best OSL seriously (savior vs iris, hwasin vs GGplay, Flash vs GGplay, iris vs GGplay, the other matchup i dont remember) Lucky opponents ? O_O Ok thats all, i have lost faith in u - Fantasy gave GGplay advantage as a Z vs Hwasin, Hwasin getting the worst spawn location, GGplay the best. Sucky map with ZvT(8-2), no wonder it got removed. 2nd game hwasin owned him. 3rd game was a blast, going to end game, very even, but yes, GGplay has a decent endgame. - Flash was a rookie back then, and was defenitly not considered as hard an opponent. - Both the supreme players, Bisu and Savior lost very unluckly, Bisu getting cheesed 2 times vs Flash, and then Savior play vs his teammate lowering his odds with ALOT in a b03. - If GGplay was that good, he would have stayed on top longer, but fell right after the finals. - If im not mistaken, he is also the player with the worst stats ever reaching a final. All luck for GGplay? you are defenitly beeing a little ignorant if you dont think some of it is. Compare this with a player like Mind winning MSL, crushing both Savior and Bisu. Now thats different. You are right if he would have played vs someone that was champion right then. And then last face Iris in the finals, that defenitly was the favorite and had the pressure, though Iris TvZ wasnt his strongest mu. GGplay played well in finals, only cuz he played vs someone closer to his level, producing amazing close games. If it was Savior or Bisu vs him in the finals, it would have been a total different case. He wouldnt have had a chance. But we never know.
Man , Best is lucky to be called GGplay now if he doesn't win vs July he wouldn't have even that title .
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On July 11 2008 22:39 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 07:50 trollbone wrote:On July 10 2008 06:49 ThePhan2m wrote: thanks for the explenation, now that clears things up. However, Best is no way GGplay. GGplay didnt play like Best does now, he went trough OSL with lucky oppnements, he never really had it. Tbh whole that OSL was a joke, and GGplay winning that OSL was just showing Gods big joke of luck prepared for the BW world. Maybe a Stork, maybe... guess we only have to wait and see. There is more than just skills that we have to take into count. Sadly enough, there will be alot of pressure on Best. But anyhow, Julyzerg hasnt really shown his strenght yet either? To think he is the old July, the war of God is to be hopeful, his former oppenements hasnt exactly been top players. SO SATURDAY! here we come! *drums* Lol ? GGplay a joke ? He had to beat Hwasin first (who is always very good in TvZ), then Flash (who has always been a TvZ monster ) then defeated Iris in 5 brillant set That OSL was a joke ? Seriously it produced the best TvZ of 2007, a lot of amazing series, it was one of the Best OSL seriously (savior vs iris, hwasin vs GGplay, Flash vs GGplay, iris vs GGplay, the other matchup i dont remember) Lucky opponents ? O_O Ok thats all, i have lost faith in u - Fantasy gave GGplay advantage as a Z vs Hwasin, Hwasin getting the worst spawn location, GGplay the best. Sucky map with ZvT(8-2), no wonder it got removed. 2nd game hwasin owned him. 3rd game was a blast, going to end game, very even, but yes, GGplay has a decent endgame. - Flash was a rookie back then, and was defenitly not considered as hard an opponent. - Both the supreme players, Bisu and Savior lost very unluckly, Bisu getting cheesed 2 times vs Flash, and then Savior play vs his teammate lowering his odds with ALOT in a b03. - If GGplay was that good, he would have stayed on top longer, but fell right after the finals. - If im not mistaken, he is also the player with the worst stats ever reaching a final. All luck for GGplay? you are defenitly beeing a little ignorant if you dont think some of it is. Compare this with a player like Mind winning MSL, crushing both Savior and Bisu. Now thats different. You are right if he would have played vs someone that was champion right then. And then last face Iris in the finals, that defenitly was the favorite and had the pressure, though Iris TvZ wasnt his strongest mu. GGplay played well in finals, only cuz he played vs someone closer to his level, producing amazing close games. If it was Savior or Bisu vs him in the finals, it would have been a total different case. He wouldnt have had a chance. But we never know.
God u make me laugh - Hwasin was the best TvZ on earth (67,80 %) and GGPlay beated him in a straight way 2 match in a row, he wasnt lucky, u are trying to deny his skills, he was extremely skilled at that time ! He had a decent endgame ? Go rewatch his games against Flash and Iris, he was the sAviOr of Daum OSL ! - Flash was a rookie at that time, yes, but he had defeated Luxury and Jaedong previously ! He had a 80% record vs Zerg ! - Bisu and sAviOr werent lucky, yes and what ? can u predict what would have been the result ? Don't deny his skills. - he was that good and sported good result on proleague the season after going 11-6 (shinhan proleague 2007 round 2) - yes awful stat and why ? Because was there before and was a mediocre player then in late 2006 he stepped up his game and won in 2007 the Daum OSL and then fade away ? I hope that wasnt an argument to say that GGPlay was lucky.
And fuck u, he beat every single opposition on Monty Hall : - Stork - Flash - Iris On Fucking Monty Hall man ? what do u want more ? A medal ?
Look at his games ! He got one of the Best TvZ out here, his end game was superb, his macro-management fantastic, and his defiler Control was godly. One of his games is in the best game of 2007... he took the final to a 0-2 to a 3-2... That was just O_O
Daum OSL is one of the Best OSL and this is because of GGPlay, he got serious competition and won then with miraculous play
Saying he was lucky is the most stupid thing i have ever heard.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On July 11 2008 22:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2008 06:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On July 10 2008 21:51 elias poncho wrote: Hey Steve, I just have a sort of random question. Do you also look at "unofficial" matches when you're deciding? (I'm thinking mostly of the averatec-intel tournament) I'm just curious. Also, if you do look at them, do the players performances carry less weight than in the official matches? I do, but the quality of opponent is often drastically lower in something like the averatec-intel classic. things like WWI i give absolutely no credit for How is quality of player lower in averatec-intel. Absence of teams? Less practice? Or actually, worse players?
Well, a bunch of teams didn't participate, which means in order to hit the 128 entrants they needed there was a ton of unknowns in the tournament. Like, for instance, fOrGG doesn't get any extra credit for beating up a terrible player like Effort.
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'ey, Effort's owning up the minor league (or was =O). Beating the #1 [minor league] player earns him major props.
All luck for GGplay? you are defenitly beeing a little ignorant if you dont think some of it is. Compare this with a player like Mind winning MSL, crushing both Savior and Bisu. Now thats different. You are right if he would have played vs someone that was champion right then. And then last face Iris in the finals, that defenitly was the favorite and had the pressure, though Iris TvZ wasnt his strongest mu. GGplay played well in finals, only cuz he played vs someone closer to his level, producing amazing close games. If it was Savior or Bisu vs him in the finals, it would have been a total different case. He wouldnt have had a chance. But we never know.
Let's not forget everyone was 'wow'd by Iris's TvZ after two insane BO5's against Savior in the previous months. Since you make sAviOr the end all around that time (which he wasn't anymore) and Iris beat sAviOr, doesn't that say something about GGplay at the time? No one cares how GGplay did after the OSL, he played very well throughout. Perhaps an awful example: after losing to Bisu in the finals, sAviOr never won another Starleague! His OSL win must have been pure luck.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On July 12 2008 11:08 LucasWoJ wrote:'ey, Effort's owning up the minor league (or was =O). Beating the #1 [minor league] player earns him major props.
its called minor league for a reason
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After the OSL final ThePhan2m can forget about Best beeing #1 and eat his word that BEST actually stand greater chances then THE GOD OF FREAKING WAR !!!!
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July is moving way up next month
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I want him to go way up, but his zvt is a little too untested. I cant see him going above #4
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Yeah July's zvt is a bit untested as of late, and Best's semi and final matches have shown that his pvz isn't really up to par. It would be hard for any one of them of them to push down Jaedong or Flash as of now but there's still a few weeks left to the next PR.
Both July and Best may be unstoppable versus a protoss opponent (I question wether any protoss could take on JD in a bo3/5 either too). Unfortunately for Best in the OSL finals, he was the only protoss playing.
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Yeah, the zvt thing is true, but he definitly deserves a top 5 spot at the very least.
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On July 12 2008 02:03 trollbone wrote:- Flash was a rookie at that time, yes, but he had defeated Luxury and Jaedong previously ! He had a 80% record vs Zerg !
He was 80% vs Zerg because he had only played like what, 5 TvZ in his career by that point? There was a time when Baby had a 100% record..
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Biased for real this time. I know that you control the power rank, but I don't think non-game related issues like generosity and friendliness to TL should be considered in it. Maybe that's just my opinion. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm saying that he's not better than Flash or Jaedong.
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On July 13 2008 04:48 fanatacist wrote: Biased for real this time. I know that you control the power rank, but I don't think non-game related issues like generosity and friendliness to TL should be considered in it. Maybe that's just my opinion. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm saying that he's not better than Flash or Jaedong.
lol not again...............
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On July 13 2008 04:48 fanatacist wrote: Biased for real this time. I know that you control the power rank, but I don't think non-game related issues like generosity and friendliness to TL should be considered in it. Maybe that's just my opinion. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm saying that he's not better than Flash or Jaedong.
EDIT: nevermind didnt read right
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On July 13 2008 04:48 fanatacist wrote: Biased for real this time. I know that you control the power rank, but I don't think non-game related issues like generosity and friendliness to TL should be considered in it. Maybe that's just my opinion. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm saying that he's not better than Flash or Jaedong.
rofl
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On July 12 2008 19:33 raga4ka wrote: After the OSL final ThePhan2m can forget about Best beeing #1 and eat his word that BEST actually stand greater chances then THE GOD OF FREAKING WAR !!!!
+ Show Spoiler +Well the series were great, and July played really well in all games. Double cheese is hard to see coming, and obviously Best wasnt prepared and he got owned. He was very passive 3rd game, once July got upperhand with nice scouge control and eco advatage, it was pretty much gg already then, and Best played bad. It felt like Best was one step behind the whole time. There were obviously alot more nerves on him, than for July, considering this is his first big event finals and July has been trough countless. This is only the start for Best, next season he will win for sure ^^ I think however, if game 1 and 2 were longer and not cheesy, the results might have been different. Winning 1st or 2nd game means alot. Gives alot of confidence, and July knew that and took it to his advatage, all props to him!
The games were hard to predict, and I WAS WRONG. It was hard to predict how good July was, when he never plays. Grats to him getting the Golden mouse once again!
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Russian Federation4333 Posts
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