Hi guys, i wanna suggest this possibility when terran are already conten you in 2 bases because it is faster than defilers and easy to achive.
Build Order
9/9 Overlord 12/17 Hatch at Natural 11/17 Pool 13/17 3ra Hatch at Main 12 gas @100 gas --> Lair @ 100 gas make 3x pair of lings and take control of the map, kill the scout scout the enemy etc @2 100 gas --> Ling Speed take 2nd gas at natural 27/27 pure drones @100 % Lair ---> Spire 27/27 3x Overlords 27/35 Pure Lings and 3 x or 4 Sunkens @75 % spire --> Lurker Den @100 % spire make 9 drones and oversaturate your 2 bases 35/51 Queen nest @100 % Den .--> Lurker aspect @75% lurker aspect --> 6 hydras @100 % Queen nest--> hive @100 % Lurker aspect 6 lurkers and defend with lings, lurkers and sunkens Mass mutas till 10 and hide in a part of the map
@100 %Hive --> Great Spire 75/75 3x Overlords @100 % great spire convert mutas into Guardians.
With the rest of your gas take Adrenal glands
Use the rest of minerals and larvae into lings + hydras + scourges and ovie speed
Push and break the contention with 10 Guardians, 6x Lurkers, 24 x lings and push the Terrans Natural.
Back in the day on FS there was a way to be extremely defensive taking close 3rd base like that and if terran was next to close 3rd can go for fast hive and get guards by only using sunkens as your defense. DrAW and I used to experiment. All you need to do is really hide your spire. with 3 bases it makes it harder to scout.
Actually the oponent make some wraiths, but i counter with hydras under the guardians, so we move in a ball.. I think the bo can refine a litle bit to check de different options. Last year soulkey defeat flash 3_0 with some similar,, definitely its not a standar but can be an option
On July 26 2018 08:01 g0rynich wrote: proper comsat scout will cause terran to make some wraiths and your game is over
The "counter" is probably just a combination of science vessels and spider mines. Also, give the low mobility of guardians and lurkers, doing drops would be good as well.
If I were to look at this from a cost-benefit perspective, I would say that the huge amount of gas required to do an all-in like this as Zerg may be pretty easy to negate by the low cost of vultures and bunkers, and also because the Terran spends very little gas on their ground force, all of the gas is going into science vessels, from which a single irradiate will certain kill either a lurker or a guardian.
On July 26 2018 10:49 Deimos wrote: Actually the oponent do some wraiths, but i counter with hydras under the guardians, so we move in a ball.. I think the bo can refine a litle bit to check de different options. Last year soulkey defeat flash 3_0 with some similar,, definitely its not a standar but can be an option
The current terran meta these days seems to be to get a lot of science vessels, rather than a lot of tanks. Lurker/Hydra/Guardian does well against an army that is tank-heavy and defensive, but against a good number of vessels, I'd personally recommend getting a defiler for plague, even if you stick to hydra/lurker throughout the game.
What about using guardians when T goes for a mech switch? At this point he can't afford as many vessels as he makes factories, tanks, goliaths, and armory upgrades.
I think the hydra/guardian is much more viable vs most terran builds. Michael used to do a pretty sick hydra/guardian timing build that usually worked pretty well. I'll try to find a vod of it.
On July 26 2018 19:32 TwiggyWan wrote: What about using guardians when T goes for a mech switch? At this point he can't afford as many vessels as he makes factories, tanks, goliaths, and armory upgrades.
Goliaths fuck up guardians, he should also have some residual science vessels to fuck up your guardians with. If hes low on both its cheaper/easier just to flood him with mutas then go back to normal production.
~~~ hydra lurker guardian push is essentially what shine did in his ASL run last year. when your guardians hit, what is the typical SV count of a terran? 3 or less and you should roll pretty easily, even if they have multiple irradiates.
hydra lurker guardian push is essentially what shine did in his ASL run last year. when your guardians hit, what is the typical SV count of a terran? 3 or less and you should roll pretty easily, even if they have multiple irradiates.
Is it fair to say that this strat relies heavily on surprise? If they guess what you're going then there's lots of ways they can counter it, but it's so unexpected that you might catch them without any response, like Shine did in that ASL game. I guess you just have to make a judgement call from seeing their base and army, how long it would take them to build anti air.
The way shine played it, it wasnt an allin. Hydra lurker guardian pushes work like a siege train, you dont actually have to snap the terrans neck, all you have to do is push. But, it also functions similar to a protoss death ball; once a few key units are killed, things begin to collapse pretty rapidly. It is possible to transition to defilers behind a guardian push and play for the long game, totally viable. But doing it is definitely more of a judgement call than straight defilers which are just always great.
On July 27 2018 00:25 EndingLife wrote: I think the hydra/guardian is much more viable vs most terran builds. Michael used to do a pretty sick hydra/guardian timing build that usually worked pretty well. I'll try to find a vod of it.
agree i used to try to imitate it
3 hatch mutas put the den down until they scan make the queen's nest, hive, greater spire hydras upgs and ov speed
you need to do something with those first 11 mutas ofc (and lose as few as possible, gas efficiency is key with this)
i know we aren't talking about OP's build exactly but it is an option