I mean sure there is big and small tournament but between 10k and 10 million I don't really see the difference except in the production value LoL, Dota or CSGO have huge prizepool and it dosen't make me want to watch them in the slightess
Afreeca World - Invitational VI - Page 2
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Nakajin
Canada8771 Posts
I mean sure there is big and small tournament but between 10k and 10 million I don't really see the difference except in the production value LoL, Dota or CSGO have huge prizepool and it dosen't make me want to watch them in the slightess | ||
PuroYO
Norway163 Posts
The organisations pay their stay, not their winnings. Other games do the same, organisations or LANs pay the travel and stay because the professionals garner so much exposure and create so much excitement for the organisation just by being there that they earn money by spending money on the players. | ||
PuroYO
Norway163 Posts
On July 10 2017 22:09 Nakajin wrote: Is there really people who care about the prize pool while watching? I mean sure there is big and small tournament but between 10k and 10 million I don't really see the difference except in the production value LoL, Dota or CSGO have huge prizepool and it dosen't make me want to watch them in the slightess Price pool creates hype, fame, excitement. Price pool gathers viewers and more players who wants to fight for the big reward. More viewers and more players means more exposure, which in turn means more money in the scene and in turn more players will want to fight for the reward, meaning more competition, which is GOOD for the entirety of the SC2 scene and the eSport scene. Just because YOU don't want to watch a tournament with millions of dollars doesn't mean that no one wants to watch a tournament with millions of dollars, in fact, a large part of the entire gaming community watches CSGO tournaments, that is why CSGO is top 3 watched games online... News papers would report on a SC2 player winning a million dollar. No news paper in the world will report on a SC2 player winning 25k in a WCS circuit. It's simply not as exciting, sure, it's great that someone won 25k, but if he was as skilled at for instance LoL, Dota or CS as he was at SC2 then he'd be a millionaire just by winning tier 2 tournaments. No, money does not matter but at the same time money is what makes the competitive scene and eSports scene regarding SC2 stay alive, do you think Blizzard will keep hosting WCS if there are no viewers, meaning no return on investment? | ||
SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On July 11 2017 04:07 PuroYO wrote: > But I would think, in a game where not much money is to make, every "scrap" wil help professionals to live their dream, e.g. staying in Korea for practice. The organisations pay their stay, not their winnings. Other games do the same, organisations or LANs pay the travel and stay because the professionals garner so much exposure and create so much excitement for the organisation just by being there that they earn money by spending money on the players. Sorry to tell you dude, teams aren't investing much money into SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention. Most teams aren't willing to pay all the expenses of their players, it just isn't worth it. Tournaments like DH and IEM do play for travel expenses of qualified players on Blizzard's dime. It's just the state of the scene dude. Besides, pros were playing in smaller online tournaments since the beginning of SC2. Why not make some money doing the practice you were going to do anyway? | ||
PuroYO
Norway163 Posts
Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that. That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now. Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o | ||
SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On July 11 2017 04:15 PuroYO wrote: It's simply not as exciting, sure, it's great that someone won 25k, but if he was as skilled at for instance LoL, Dota or CS as he was at SC2 then he'd be a millionaire just by winning tier 2 tournaments. In DOTA maybe. But even Faker has barely made over 1 million in tournament winnings despite being the greatest LoL player ever. Why? Because even if the theoretical price pool was 1 million, it's still shared between multiple people since it's a team effort. The player with the most tournament winnings in esports in 2017 so far is a StarCcraft 2 pro (which is gonna change at TI, but no tournament has a prize pool matching that even slightly). The fact of the matter is though, the room for growth in SC2 is severely limited at this point. Multiple giants (IGN, MLG, Red Bull) dropped SC2 over the years, if Blizzard hadn't met their demands Dreamhack and IEM would likely have followed. All but 1 Korean team disbanded their SC2 divisions. The scene at this point basically only exists because Blizzard finances every WCS tournament with no visible return of investment. | ||
AlexGPunkt
Germany258 Posts
On July 11 2017 04:26 PuroYO wrote: NiP was playing in tournaments for headsets back in early 2000's in CS, do you see them playing in tournaments like that any more? Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that. That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now. Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o So, from now on you will put in the needed amounts of money to get to a million $ prizepool for every tournament for the rest of the year? Whats the point in your criticism? Yes, it would be nice if I could open the tap and gold would come out of it, but it´s not reality. | ||
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On July 11 2017 04:26 PuroYO wrote: NiP was playing in tournaments for headsets back in early 2000's in CS, do you see them playing in tournaments like that any more? Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that. That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now. Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o It's not only about money at all. It's about having a certain standard, that much is true. People won't watch a lot of low money cups, but if the production is there and if the players are interested, etc then the prestige created will translate into viewership. Having big money tournaments is sometimes a way to create excitement, but usually it means there already is the scene which can support these big prizepools. You mentioned Quake, do you really think every tournament will have that amount of money? It's a way to create buzz right now because nobody really knows if there will be a big scene. That's it. https://www.esportsearnings.com/history/2017/games Here you can see that sc2 is still paying fairly well, it's obviously not the biggest title around but it's also not nearly as bad as one could think when reading your posts. | ||
KaiserChuck
United States79 Posts
On July 11 2017 04:57 The_Red_Viper wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 11 2017 04:26 PuroYO wrote: NiP was playing in tournaments for headsets back in early 2000's in CS, do you see them playing in tournaments like that any more? Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that. That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now. Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o It's not only about money at all. It's about having a certain standard, that much is true. People won't watch a lot of low money cups, but if the production is there and if the players are interested, etc then the prestige created will translate into viewership. Having big money tournaments is sometimes a way to create excitement, but usually it means there already is the scene which can support these big prizepools. You mentioned Quake, do you really think every tournament will have that amount of money? It's a way to create buzz right now because nobody really knows if there will be a big scene. That's it. https://www.esportsearnings.com/history/2017/games Here you can see that sc2 is still paying fairly well, it's obviously not the biggest title around but it's also not nearly as bad as one could think when reading your posts. This made me wonder, so I mathed it up real quick: Game $ Total # of Players $ Per Player $Per Player Ranking --------- ------------- -------------- ---------------- ---------------------------- CS:GO $8,902,477 2742 $3,246.70 7 Dota2 $7,361,613 482 $15,273.05 1 LoL $4,561,043 1014 $4,498.07 6 HotS $1,880,766 214 $8,788.63 2 CoD $1,757,455 261 $6,733.54 4 HSton $1,673,107 255 $6,561.20 5 SC2 $1,628,067 226 $7,203.83 3 Note that these are initially presented in order by Total Prize Pool, with SC2 being 7th in $ Total. Once you divide up the winnings, however, SC2 moves into 3rd place overall when measured by earnings per player listed. One could possibly argue that this number is propped up by the structure & format of the GSL, however I would counter that these other games with less consistent but higher payouts are loading those figures similarly. Also I realize that these are not final figures for 2017; some large events will shake this up later in the year. Also want to say I'm sad this event didn't happen. I'd stayed up late & was looking forward to it - I hope Afreeca doesn't perceive this as lack of interest on the part of foreigners.] Edit: I gave up trying to format this data - if you care just paste it into a txt file on your desktop & tab it into place. | ||
PuroYO
Norway163 Posts
No, but not all tournaments needs to be a Major.. That is their Major qualifier right now and the MAJOR should be the prime events which pays out the most, for instance WCS global or Circruit. The fact that Blizzard doesn't want to pay out more than 100k per major is simply shocking, says a lot about where they want the game to go. Downwards. PS: It's not the player's responsibility to fund the developer's tournaments, so for who ever asked me if "I will fund everything for a year", don't be stupid, also, it seems like people are content with SC2 falling since you feel a bigger need to attack me than to discuss the issue. I want SC2 to survive the upcoming years, and somehow, people think that's a bad thing.. It won't survive with low price pools, price pools which other games can offer for lower-tier tournaments and players will leave for, like how many people left for Dota, overcasual, LoL or shit.. Which is still continuing to happen.. | ||
Ej_
47656 Posts
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yagrebinho
15 Posts
On July 10 2017 21:46 Rolltide wrote: The way I look at tournaments like this is that it is opportunity to make some cash doing something they already do 10 hours a day. They are playing Starcraft 2 anyway online so why not make $50-$200? Lol I have the same view of tournaments | ||
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On July 11 2017 16:56 PuroYO wrote: > You mentioned Quake, do you really think every tournament will have that amount of money? It's a way to create buzz right now because nobody really knows if there will be a big scene. That's it. No, but not all tournaments needs to be a Major.. That is their Major qualifier right now and the MAJOR should be the prime events which pays out the most, for instance WCS global or Circruit. The fact that Blizzard doesn't want to pay out more than 100k per major is simply shocking, says a lot about where they want the game to go. Downwards. PS: It's not the player's responsibility to fund the developer's tournaments, so for who ever asked me if "I will fund everything for a year", don't be stupid, also, it seems like people are content with SC2 falling since you feel a bigger need to attack me than to discuss the issue. I want SC2 to survive the upcoming years, and somehow, people think that's a bad thing.. It won't survive with low price pools, price pools which other games can offer for lower-tier tournaments and players will leave for, like how many people left for Dota, overcasual, LoL or shit.. Which is still continuing to happen.. You really need to prove that it makes a huge difference in interest first. I certainly don't believe it. The prizepool is merely something which adds a bit of prestige by motivating players to be interested in the event. That means that a wcs event obviously needs more money than a random online cup. But if it is 100k or 200k or 500k, i doubt the interest would be any higher with the latter prizepool (viewership wise) If anything i would want blizzard to finally release the warchest and add a certain % on the prizepool that way, other games have shown that funding like that makes sense and while i don't expect it to be incredibly huge in sc2, if the rewards are good enough it certainly would help a bit (at leats i hope it would be worth it) | ||
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