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It's very short notice but thanks to AfreecaTVs & your support I'm happy to announce the sixth AfreecaTV World Invitational!
This invitational is set to feature a different line up with players that will live up to the Afreeca world name. 2 NA players & 2 EU players will face off in a single elimination BO5 semi finals with a BO7 finals. The players will be competing for a prize pool of $200.
The first invited player is the current three time champion Elazer ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/b/b9/Pl.png) from Poland. Elazer has showed dominance in Afreeca world by winning the past three and aiming for a fourth!
The first opponent for Elazer will be the proven American Protoss hope Neeb ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/2/2f/Us.png) who is making his debut in Afreeca World. Taking another run at Afreeca World the French Protoss PtitDrogo ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/flags/fr.png) .
Finally making her debut for her country it is the zerg Scarlett from Canada ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/4/42/Ca.png)
When:
Monday, Jul 10 11:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
Where:
Prize Pool: $200 USD
Matches:
#1
#2  Elazer vs  Neeb
Come out to support the sixth Afreeca World tournament!
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sick line up
Super excited for this!
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2422 Posts
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Good work 
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TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS
I've stated it before and I'll state it again, SC2 price pools are pathetic, WCS circuit 100k, winner 25k, this tourney's price pool is 200 dollars..
There is no money in SC2 so people don't bother playing Sc2 as a competitive gamer, they'll go somewhere else like Dota, LoL, CS, HotS, casualwatch and so on, same with viewers, it's not exciting to see people fight over 200 dollars, it's just not, even if the game is good that's all negated because.. 200 dollars.
It makes it seem like an amateur tournament, pros shouldn't have to settle for mere scraps.
Also, not streaming on Twitch.. How many years behind are they, 5?
I want MORE people to watch, SC2 not less, and less is what happens when you make it seem like the pros are amateurs, fighting for pocket change.
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On July 10 2017 19:34 PuroYO wrote:
TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS
I've stated it before and I'll state it again, SC2 price pools are pathetic, WCS circuit 100k, winner 25k, this tourney's price pool is 200 dollars..
There is no money in SC2 so people don't bother playing Sc2 as a competitive gamer, they'll go somewhere else like Dota, LoL, CS, HotS, casualwatch and so on, same with viewers, it's not exciting to see people fight over 200 dollars, it's just not, even if the game is good that's all negated because.. 200 dollars.
There are small tournaments with price pools of about 200$ like this one in every game you mentioned, but most of them are team games so they have to share those 'scraps' among several people, so how about you get half a clue before you make posts like that?
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"There are small tournaments with price pools of about 200$ like this one in every game you mentioned"
Yes, BUT NOT WITH PROFESSIONALS.
Also, you'll never find a tournament in other games, even team games, where professionals fight for hundreds of dollars, you simply won't.
I've watched competitive gaming and eSport for many years and the last time I remember seeing price pools in the HUNDREDS was back in 2007-2008 when we were still competing for hardware and you were lucky if you got a new mouse..
League of legends, millions in major tournaments.
Dota, millions in major tournaments.
Quake, one million in a BETA Tournament.
SC2, 25k to the winner of WCS circuit, a major tournament..
PS: You're stating that it's ok for pros to fight for hundreds of dollars and yet you're telling me I have no clue.. Do you even understand what you just stated and the ramifications of treating the best of the best at something like amateurs?
Interest will be lost, which is why viewership in SC2 is at an all-time low and still declining, it's why less and less people start playing SC2 because there is no future in it, yes earning 25k for a WCS circuit is great, but when you can win tier 3 tournaments in other games for hundreds of thousands then the perspective changes, why bother going for 25kx3 a year when you can win 1 tournament in another game and exceed all the price pools for SC2 that year?
Heck, the last place finisher at LCS globals got more than the winner of WCS global..
Do you understand now why people go to other games and why less and less people are interested in SC2?
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Sorry to say guys but the event has been cancelled due to lack of player confirmation/no shows. Thanks to everyone who turned up for such a great lineup.
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On July 10 2017 20:11 PuroYO wrote:"There are small tournaments with price pools of about 200$ like this one in every game you mentioned" Yes, BUT NOT WITH PROFESSIONALS. Also, you'll never find a tournament in other games, even team games, where professionals fight for hundreds of dollars, you simply won't. I've watched competitive gaming and eSport for many years and the last time I remember seeing price pools in the HUNDREDS was back in 2007-2008 when we were still competing for hardware and you were lucky if you got a new mouse.. League of legends, millions in major tournaments. Dota, millions in major tournaments. Quake, one million in a BETA Tournament. SC2, 25k to the winner of WCS circuit, a major tournament.. PS: You're stating that it's ok for pros to fight for hundreds of dollars and yet you're telling me I have no clue.. Do you even understand what you just stated and the ramifications of treating the best of the best at something like amateurs? Interest will be lost, which is why viewership in SC2 is at an all-time low and still declining, it's why less and less people start playing SC2 because there is no future in it, yes earning 25k for a WCS circuit is great, but when you can win tier 3 tournaments in other games for hundreds of thousands then the perspective changes, why bother going for 25kx3 a year when you can win 1 tournament in another game and exceed all the price pools for SC2 that year? Heck, the last place finisher at LCS globals got more than the winner of WCS global.. Do you understand now why people go to other games and why less and less people are interested in SC2?
Well hopefully this makes you feel better, none of the pros showed up.
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Italy2517 Posts
...seems like someone got up from the wrong side of the bed...
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On July 10 2017 20:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2017 20:11 PuroYO wrote:"There are small tournaments with price pools of about 200$ like this one in every game you mentioned" Yes, BUT NOT WITH PROFESSIONALS. Also, you'll never find a tournament in other games, even team games, where professionals fight for hundreds of dollars, you simply won't. I've watched competitive gaming and eSport for many years and the last time I remember seeing price pools in the HUNDREDS was back in 2007-2008 when we were still competing for hardware and you were lucky if you got a new mouse.. League of legends, millions in major tournaments. Dota, millions in major tournaments. Quake, one million in a BETA Tournament. SC2, 25k to the winner of WCS circuit, a major tournament.. PS: You're stating that it's ok for pros to fight for hundreds of dollars and yet you're telling me I have no clue.. Do you even understand what you just stated and the ramifications of treating the best of the best at something like amateurs? Interest will be lost, which is why viewership in SC2 is at an all-time low and still declining, it's why less and less people start playing SC2 because there is no future in it, yes earning 25k for a WCS circuit is great, but when you can win tier 3 tournaments in other games for hundreds of thousands then the perspective changes, why bother going for 25kx3 a year when you can win 1 tournament in another game and exceed all the price pools for SC2 that year? Heck, the last place finisher at LCS globals got more than the winner of WCS global.. Do you understand now why people go to other games and why less and less people are interested in SC2? Well hopefully this makes you feel better, none of the pros showed up.
It absolutely does not, what would've made me feel better is if the professionals were valued like professionals, not like amateurs.
I like SC2, I want it to be bigger, it won't get bigger if professionals are treated like amateurs and play in tournaments for pocket change, like wcs circruit win 25k.
They can ask fans for 200 bucks and get it faster.
It also won't get better when every time someone states an opinion or suggestion that you guys disagree with you attack that person instead of trying to understand.
I want SC2 to be big again, SC2 is a freaking fantastic game, the only thing missing is the interest, and when even the professionals lose interest in tournaments you know it's falling apart.
Am I wrong for wanting more money in the scene so there is more hype?
Yes, money is hype, case in point: The International Majors, the CS Majors, LCS majors, Quake beta(1 mill USD for a BETA TOURNAMENT)..
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On July 10 2017 20:30 CynicalDeath wrote:
...seems like someone got up from the wrong side of the bed...
No need to be rude when others suggest changes or state their opinion.
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As all the players are staying in one flat in Korea I do not think they did not show up - it appears rather there must have been some miscommunication.
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On July 10 2017 20:54 Kafka777 wrote:
As all the players are staying in one flat in Korea I do not think they did not show up - it appears rather there must have been some miscommunication.
Event was confirmed days in advance with confirmation of playing hours before the event itself.
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On July 10 2017 20:42 PuroYO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2017 20:30 CynicalDeath wrote:
...seems like someone got up from the wrong side of the bed... No need to be rude when others suggest changes or state their opinion.
MAYBE IF YOU DIDNT ALL CAPS ON YOUR FIRST SENTENCE AND MADE A REASONABLE POINT PEOPLE WOULDN'T RESPOND TO YOU AS IF YOU WHERE A SMALL CHILD.
There's not millions in the SC2 scene nor was there ever. Pro players play small tournaments for small money because some money is more than no money. You seem oblivious to the fact that money has to come from somewhere. Complaining about an Afreeca sponsored tournament not being run on Twitch is just pure stupidity.
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Sad that it did not happen. Will it be postponed or is it cancelled completely?
And thanks for organising and putting up the money!
@ PuroYO: Yes, not as much money as in other games. But I would think, in a game where not much money is to make, every "scrap" wil help professionals to live their dream, e.g. staying in Korea for practice.
I get that you want more, but in reality, money will be invested, if money can be made. That is not really possible with SC2 anymore, or at least only in smaller amounts.
I´m happy SC2 will prevail and small tournaments help that.
You say that it does not help to attack people stating their opinion, but your way of stating your opinion devalues the effort the organizer put into this. Your way of shitting on all the work, all the love that is given triggers peoples reaction. Then they attack you.
Maybe be nicer about general criticism instead of hating in a specific tournament thread.
I dont want to attack you, just the way I read your posts.
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The way I look at tournaments like this is that it is opportunity to make some cash doing something they already do 10 hours a day.
They are playing Starcraft 2 anyway online so why not make $50-$200?
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The big tournaments still pay very well. GSL, IEM, Blizzcon.
SSL premier pays at least $200 for weekly 2 out of 3 matches even if you lose 2-0. More based on how you do.
Zest has had a terrible year but he was able to win a small land tournament in Toronto recently that paid out $4000. You know who he had to beat to win that free trip to Canada and the $4000? Shadow, Pilipili, Noregret and Keen.
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As all the players are staying in one flat in Korea I do not think they did not show up - it appears rather there must have been some miscommunication.
Only Scarlett is presently living in Korea.
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Is there really people who care about the prize pool while watching?
I mean sure there is big and small tournament but between 10k and 10 million I don't really see the difference except in the production value LoL, Dota or CSGO have huge prizepool and it dosen't make me want to watch them in the slightess
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> But I would think, in a game where not much money is to make, every "scrap" wil help professionals to live their dream, e.g. staying in Korea for practice.
The organisations pay their stay, not their winnings.
Other games do the same, organisations or LANs pay the travel and stay because the professionals garner so much exposure and create so much excitement for the organisation just by being there that they earn money by spending money on the players.
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On July 10 2017 22:09 Nakajin wrote:
Is there really people who care about the prize pool while watching?
I mean sure there is big and small tournament but between 10k and 10 million I don't really see the difference except in the production value LoL, Dota or CSGO have huge prizepool and it dosen't make me want to watch them in the slightess
Price pool creates hype, fame, excitement.
Price pool gathers viewers and more players who wants to fight for the big reward.
More viewers and more players means more exposure, which in turn means more money in the scene and in turn more players will want to fight for the reward, meaning more competition, which is GOOD for the entirety of the SC2 scene and the eSport scene.
Just because YOU don't want to watch a tournament with millions of dollars doesn't mean that no one wants to watch a tournament with millions of dollars, in fact, a large part of the entire gaming community watches CSGO tournaments, that is why CSGO is top 3 watched games online...
News papers would report on a SC2 player winning a million dollar.
No news paper in the world will report on a SC2 player winning 25k in a WCS circuit.
It's simply not as exciting, sure, it's great that someone won 25k, but if he was as skilled at for instance LoL, Dota or CS as he was at SC2 then he'd be a millionaire just by winning tier 2 tournaments.
No, money does not matter but at the same time money is what makes the competitive scene and eSports scene regarding SC2 stay alive, do you think Blizzard will keep hosting WCS if there are no viewers, meaning no return on investment?
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On July 11 2017 04:07 PuroYO wrote:
> But I would think, in a game where not much money is to make, every "scrap" wil help professionals to live their dream, e.g. staying in Korea for practice.
The organisations pay their stay, not their winnings.
Other games do the same, organisations or LANs pay the travel and stay because the professionals garner so much exposure and create so much excitement for the organisation just by being there that they earn money by spending money on the players.
Sorry to tell you dude, teams aren't investing much money into SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention. Most teams aren't willing to pay all the expenses of their players, it just isn't worth it. Tournaments like DH and IEM do play for travel expenses of qualified players on Blizzard's dime. It's just the state of the scene dude.
Besides, pros were playing in smaller online tournaments since the beginning of SC2. Why not make some money doing the practice you were going to do anyway?
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NiP was playing in tournaments for headsets back in early 2000's in CS, do you see them playing in tournaments like that any more? 
Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2.
The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that.
That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now.
Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o
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In a perfect world Blizzard would be willing to put up millions of dollars per tournament to generate maximum hype. Sadly, we don't live in this world. We instead live in one where Blizzard wants to make a profit on the game instead of reinvesting everything back into esports with no proof it'll take. If SC2's viewership had improved from where it was 5 years ago maybe we'd be there. The economics of SC2 are completely fucked and you're not saying anything people don't already know
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On July 11 2017 04:15 PuroYO wrote:
It's simply not as exciting, sure, it's great that someone won 25k, but if he was as skilled at for instance LoL, Dota or CS as he was at SC2 then he'd be a millionaire just by winning tier 2 tournaments.
In DOTA maybe. But even Faker has barely made over 1 million in tournament winnings despite being the greatest LoL player ever. Why? Because even if the theoretical price pool was 1 million, it's still shared between multiple people since it's a team effort.
The player with the most tournament winnings in esports in 2017 so far is a StarCcraft 2 pro (which is gonna change at TI, but no tournament has a prize pool matching that even slightly).
The fact of the matter is though, the room for growth in SC2 is severely limited at this point. Multiple giants (IGN, MLG, Red Bull) dropped SC2 over the years, if Blizzard hadn't met their demands Dreamhack and IEM would likely have followed. All but 1 Korean team disbanded their SC2 divisions. The scene at this point basically only exists because Blizzard finances every WCS tournament with no visible return of investment.
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On July 11 2017 04:26 PuroYO wrote:NiP was playing in tournaments for headsets back in early 2000's in CS, do you see them playing in tournaments like that any more? Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that. That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now. Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o
So, from now on you will put in the needed amounts of money to get to a million $ prizepool for every tournament for the rest of the year?
Whats the point in your criticism?
Yes, it would be nice if I could open the tap and gold would come out of it, but it´s not reality.
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On July 11 2017 04:26 PuroYO wrote:NiP was playing in tournaments for headsets back in early 2000's in CS, do you see them playing in tournaments like that any more? Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that. That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now. Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o
It's not only about money at all. It's about having a certain standard, that much is true. People won't watch a lot of low money cups, but if the production is there and if the players are interested, etc then the prestige created will translate into viewership.
Having big money tournaments is sometimes a way to create excitement, but usually it means there already is the scene which can support these big prizepools.
You mentioned Quake, do you really think every tournament will have that amount of money? It's a way to create buzz right now because nobody really knows if there will be a big scene. That's it.
https://www.esportsearnings.com/history/2017/games Here you can see that sc2 is still paying fairly well, it's obviously not the biggest title around but it's also not nearly as bad as one could think when reading your posts.
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On July 11 2017 04:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 11 2017 04:26 PuroYO wrote:NiP was playing in tournaments for headsets back in early 2000's in CS, do you see them playing in tournaments like that any more? Just because "they did it back then" doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do it now, if they, professionals at the game, can't survive off of their salary then something is severely broken with the entire state of economics in SC2. The game doesn't get enough attention because no one gives a flying frog about someone winning 25k, it's nothing in today's gaming climate, 20 years ago you'd be considered the king of the fucking world if you won 25k, now ...No,n ot when all other games offer millions, and BECAUSE they offer millions they get in the news papers, they get on the television, they get exposure for free because "WAOW someone just won over a million dollar playing X game", that's exciting and people want to read about that. That creates attention which in turn would gather more players to compete which in turn creates more exposure which again turns into money in the scene, which is good for everyone, ESPECIALLY the players and viewers, it means the game is growing and is attracting new players, something ... which.. is not happening now. Am I wrong for wanting Sc2 to stop declining and start growing again? :o It's not only about money at all. It's about having a certain standard, that much is true. People won't watch a lot of low money cups, but if the production is there and if the players are interested, etc then the prestige created will translate into viewership. Having big money tournaments is sometimes a way to create excitement, but usually it means there already is the scene which can support these big prizepools. You mentioned Quake, do you really think every tournament will have that amount of money? It's a way to create buzz right now because nobody really knows if there will be a big scene. That's it. Here you can see that sc2 is still paying fairly well, it's obviously not the biggest title around but it's also not nearly as bad as one could think when reading your posts.
This made me wonder, so I mathed it up real quick:
Game $ Total # of Players $ Per Player $Per Player Ranking
--------- ------------- -------------- ---------------- ----------------------------
CS:GO $8,902,477 2742 $3,246.70 7
Dota2 $7,361,613 482 $15,273.05 1
LoL $4,561,043 1014 $4,498.07 6
HotS $1,880,766 214 $8,788.63 2
CoD $1,757,455 261 $6,733.54 4
HSton $1,673,107 255 $6,561.20 5
SC2 $1,628,067 226 $7,203.83 3
Note that these are initially presented in order by Total Prize Pool, with SC2 being 7th in $ Total. Once you divide up the winnings, however, SC2 moves into 3rd place overall when measured by earnings per player listed.
One could possibly argue that this number is propped up by the structure & format of the GSL, however I would counter that these other games with less consistent but higher payouts are loading those figures similarly. Also I realize that these are not final figures for 2017; some large events will shake this up later in the year.
Also want to say I'm sad this event didn't happen. I'd stayed up late & was looking forward to it - I hope Afreeca doesn't perceive this as lack of interest on the part of foreigners.]
Edit: I gave up trying to format this data - if you care just paste it into a txt file on your desktop & tab it into place.
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> You mentioned Quake, do you really think every tournament will have that amount of money? It's a way to create buzz right now because nobody really knows if there will be a big scene. That's it.
No, but not all tournaments needs to be a Major.. That is their Major qualifier right now and the MAJOR should be the prime events which pays out the most, for instance WCS global or Circruit.
The fact that Blizzard doesn't want to pay out more than 100k per major is simply shocking, says a lot about where they want the game to go.
Downwards.
PS: It's not the player's responsibility to fund the developer's tournaments, so for who ever asked me if "I will fund everything for a year", don't be stupid, also, it seems like people are content with SC2 falling since you feel a bigger need to attack me than to discuss the issue. I want SC2 to survive the upcoming years, and somehow, people think that's a bad thing..
It won't survive with low price pools, price pools which other games can offer for lower-tier tournaments and players will leave for, like how many people left for Dota, overcasual, LoL or shit.. Which is still continuing to happen..
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Between all the blatant trolling here, the one thing that triggers me is spelling "prize" as "price".
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On July 10 2017 21:46 Rolltide wrote:
The way I look at tournaments like this is that it is opportunity to make some cash doing something they already do 10 hours a day.
They are playing Starcraft 2 anyway online so why not make $50-$200?
Lol I have the same view of tournaments
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On July 11 2017 16:56 PuroYO wrote:
> You mentioned Quake, do you really think every tournament will have that amount of money? It's a way to create buzz right now because nobody really knows if there will be a big scene. That's it.
No, but not all tournaments needs to be a Major.. That is their Major qualifier right now and the MAJOR should be the prime events which pays out the most, for instance WCS global or Circruit.
The fact that Blizzard doesn't want to pay out more than 100k per major is simply shocking, says a lot about where they want the game to go.
Downwards.
PS: It's not the player's responsibility to fund the developer's tournaments, so for who ever asked me if "I will fund everything for a year", don't be stupid, also, it seems like people are content with SC2 falling since you feel a bigger need to attack me than to discuss the issue. I want SC2 to survive the upcoming years, and somehow, people think that's a bad thing..
It won't survive with low price pools, price pools which other games can offer for lower-tier tournaments and players will leave for, like how many people left for Dota, overcasual, LoL or shit.. Which is still continuing to happen..
You really need to prove that it makes a huge difference in interest first. I certainly don't believe it.
The prizepool is merely something which adds a bit of prestige by motivating players to be interested in the event. That means that a wcs event obviously needs more money than a random online cup. But if it is 100k or 200k or 500k, i doubt the interest would be any higher with the latter prizepool (viewership wise)
If anything i would want blizzard to finally release the warchest and add a certain % on the prizepool that way, other games have shown that funding like that makes sense and while i don't expect it to be incredibly huge in sc2, if the rewards are good enough it certainly would help a bit (at leats i hope it would be worth it)
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