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VE. Why did you decide to not make a comprehensible and nice looking case on mderg while you were willing to make a nice structured case on Sloosh?
Snickers. How do you scumhunt? Tell me how you came to the release vote and mderg vote. What did they do that made them scummy? I don't understand your case on Release. Mderg is scum for you because he voted while not being 100% sure? That's not how it works dude...
Also, what do you mean with "ratio of supposed scuminess to actual scuminnes seems high". Where did you get this from?
Release. The entire game you talk about BH and bunnies, but never did you conclude that bunnies was town from all of this, null at best. But then right before the lynch you ask the entire thread to "revisit" the bunnies vs BH argument. Why? Bunnies was just null to you from this argument and all the cases from Artanis and BH had nothing to do with the bunnies vs BH argument.
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On June 18 2014 08:13 Release wrote:
I strongly urge you guys to reconsider YKZ vs 27nb. YKZ makes zero effort to consider something other than Kenpachi rule. Always dismisses 27nb's comments by saying he planted the vt claim and therefore it is the reason for 27nb's vote. His logic is not correct. Reread his filter and literally start considering boolean logic when you do so. His posts do not add up; he just commits to this play and hides behind it to wreak chaos.
Yes, all game, Bunnies has not been necessarily town, only more townie due to BH's scumminess. However, read my post before the lynch again and you'll see that this is only an attack on BH and the defense of 27nb is a corollary of attacking BH.
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Lol. VE so scum. Says Bunnies is super town. Proceeds not to even mention Bunnies at all even if she gets lynched. I really don't think more needs to be said.
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Koshi, I have absolutely no idea who you have as a scum read. Yes, you replaced into this game but that was almost 24 hours ago. Voting Bunnies without any reasoning at all doesn't make you look better... You are scummy as hell.
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Well, disregard everything I said earlier about Snickers. He does not make any sense at all. His reasoning for thinking Release was scum was 50% massive WIFOM and 50% "I disagree with you, therefore you are scum"-reasoning. His reasoning for voting Mderg was prehaps even worse though. I have a really hard time to understand how he could think that Mderg was scum based on the fact that he wrote "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow".
Thing is: bad reasoning isn't alignment indicative so I don't really know what to think of him. The fact that he is so open about his thought makes my lean towards him being town still though.
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The 3 I named are my best guesses for scum. Scum never votes together. And you look pretty town. Just go from there.
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I am going to sleep early. No Spain  . Yesterday Belgium and I went to party and I cant sleep with alcohol in my blood. Then there was mafia and more soccer so it was 2 am before bed. Second time this week with sunday.
Snickers needs to explain where his reads come from and why he is so certai about everything. He even votes mderg for being uncertain. On the other hand he doesnt know any mafia terms like lylo and started the game asking many questions. But then he uses terms that I quoted. Doesnt add up to me.
But that's for tomorrow.
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On June 19 2014 03:22 Koshi wrote:
The 3 I named are my best guesses for scum. Scum never votes together. And you look pretty town. Just go from there. You mention 3 namnes, ask them a few questions and thats it. Based on this post (the post you were refering to): On June 18 2014 23:44 Koshi wrote:
VE. Why did you decide to not make a comprehensible and nice looking case on mderg while you were willing to make a nice structured case on Sloosh?
Snickers. How do you scumhunt? Tell me how you came to the release vote and mderg vote. What did they do that made them scummy? I don't understand your case on Release. Mderg is scum for you because he voted while not being 100% sure? That's not how it works dude...
Also, what do you mean with "ratio of supposed scuminess to actual scuminnes seems high". Where did you get this from?
Release. The entire game you talk about BH and bunnies, but never did you conclude that bunnies was town from all of this, null at best. But then right before the lynch you ask the entire thread to "revisit" the bunnies vs BH argument. Why? Bunnies was just null to you from this argument and all the cases from Artanis and BH had nothing to do with the bunnies vs BH argument.
I have a really hard time to understand why you even think they were scum. For example, what is it with VE not making a case on mderg that incriminates him? It does make him a hypocrite, I'll give you that but I don't see how it indicates scum.
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On June 19 2014 03:31 Koshi wrote:I am going to sleep early. No Spain . Yesterday Belgium and I went to party and I cant sleep with alcohol in my blood. Then there was mafia and more soccer so it was 2 am before bed. Second time this week with sunday.
Not enough passion!
VE seems really scummy. At the start it seemed like he didn´t really care about this game with the BH vote. Then he points out something about Release which kinda suggests a scumread but then never mentions him again.
He then calls sloosh scum and makes a case but kinda drops it instantly and instead votes me for imo weak reasons. He then stays on me without giving any additional reasons.
This is very strange play, he´s kinda focusing on sloosh but doesn´t want to commit whereas he wrote like 2 lines about me but is heavily convinced that I´m scum. It´s like he just wanted to be on the safer and easier target.
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Mderg bro. Please lets talk about the life, the universe and everything. And who your other scum reads are and why.
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If I understand it correctly, this is how Chezinu always plays. How the fuck are we suposed to get a decent read of him if the only thing he ever posts is riddles and votes? Him voting for Bunnies makes him look quite bad.
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I´m not even remotely interested in talking about the life, the universe and everything with you.
I don´t have any other clear scumreads but Snickers seems suspicious with how he asked these "newbie questions" but still knows his shit. he also focused on very small pieces of information and bad wording. Spoilered examples.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 16 2014 12:44 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:35 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:32 Snickers wrote:On June 16 2014 12:14 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 12:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 11:59 slOosh wrote:
What is this "limited information" that you guys are getting at? On June 16 2014 09:37 YouKnowZhou wrote:
I'm a vt.
I'm not really replying to 27ninjabunnies for making a bad judgement call about any of the lynches. That would be unfair since he has limited information. I will be just trying to clarify some things so you, and everyone else here, could get a better impression about me. Of course, you would have to trust me on that.
What I'm trying to say is, YKZ good, lynching YKZ bad, mmkay? What's truly amazing here is what an awesome example this is for Kenpachi Rule Extended. Even after I call it you're still doing it. Assuming you do in fact flip scum I'll have to write a post game analysis just on the first few pages of this game. Maybe I could tie it in with a general Kenpachi and Kenpachi Rule Extended / Zephirdd Rule tutorial. I'm getting more excited by the minute! BH I thought you were some amazing mafia player? Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME! And I'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game. See the statement is suspicious to me "i'll disprove your kenpachi rule by the end of the game." why the end of the game. It could easily be prove "wrong" the first night. "wrong" as in if your lynched and shown as town. Or if YKZ is lynched and showed scum. I am just trying to show where I think 27nb is thinking in a strange way. Maybe she just thinks that way normally. I do not think the kenpachi rule can be proven wrong. I think it can be proven to not be 100% right though. I think saying it is wrong is stating it has no merit at all. I already explained why i thought a scum could potentially claim VT day one to attempt for an advantage. Also sloosh thanks for posting. I think this kenpachi rule should still be discussed a little more, but I see where you think we should stop the seeming rigmarole. I'm saying by the end of the game because I'm not getting lynched today! Straight up! And if I do, I'm going down swinging. And if that's the case, I will prove it's not 100% right as you say. And how am I thinking ina strange way? I've blatantly and straight forwardly laid out my case for you. I think you are thinking in a strange way because of my post you are responding to. I said that YKZ could be lynched and showed as scum. That would also prove the kenpachi rule as not 100% right. You responded to that and still did not understand that you could not be lynched and the rule could be shown as not 100% right at day one, not the end of the game. Also it think it is weird how confident you were with saying "Obviously not because YOU ARE WRONG ON ME" but then you say by the end of the day. If i was being confident about proving someone wrong. I would have said, I could prove you wrong, even by day one with these one of these two lynches showing these respective outcomes, but will for sure prove you wrong by the end of the game. On June 16 2014 15:02 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 10:49 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:47 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:36 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:33 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:21 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? So rumor has it, There is a guy, called Kenpachi, and at the game start, he says "hi, i am Kenpachi and i am a townie." The first guy casting doubt on that dude is always scum, that's the "Kenpachi rule" It's a stupid rule, and has no basis to why I am reading YKZ as scum. On June 16 2014 10:27 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 10:16 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 10:12 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 09:50 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I don't like that he wants to ignore me completely. And that he has to immediately come out and say he is vt. On June 16 2014 09:52 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So ##Vote: YKZ Kenpachi Rule ##vote 27ninjabunnies Kenpachi rule? The Kenpachi rule, named after its author Kenpachi, is a TL adage reflecting the idea that without a clear and better motivation for a vote, it is almost certainly a scumtell when a player votes a player who claimed VT at the start of the game. Kenpachi's rule, in broader form, is: Without a blantant display of humor, a vote on a vt claim comes almost always from a scum player. The core of Kenpachi rule is that a vt claim by its nature is not suspicious to a town player, who isn't hunting for blues. Without a clear motivation for a vt claim, it looks odd to scum, who want to attack someone safely. A corollary of the Kenpachi rule is the reverse phenomenon: the first vt claim is almost always sincere. These definitions don't exactly match up... You can search it on TL for urself, but it's not about claiming townie, as 27ninjabunnies asserts. The rule is about claiming vanilla townie. Basicly, scum want to jump on something, and a VT claim looks basicly not intresting to a townie who isn't hunting for blues. It looks unique though to someone who is hunting for blues: scum. But knowing all of this, couldn't you say you're VT regardless of alignment, bait someone's suspicion and then claim Kenpachi rule? I'm having trouble understanding why at the very start of the game scum would be more prone to jumping on something that looks scummy. I mean if scum's job is to blend in, why be the first to vote and make a case? There's always scrutiny that comes with doing so... I understand your concern. Let me elucedate: Kenpachi's rule actually works. Your concerned bcuz you assume a townie would vote a vt claim so scum could claim vt then a townie votes and gets "baited". Your concern is wrong bcuz a townie would never do this. this is part of the kenpachi's rule. the next part is that you assume it looks scummy, which it isn't. scum would never claim vt bcuz scum wants to be able to fakeclaim blue at lylo or sumthing. scum wants to blend in but they are jumpy silly folk. kenpachi rule always works, bcuz it never fails. tyvm Also thought it should be pointed out that YKZ says the kenpachi rule "almost always" works and then says it "always works" without showing that his knowledge of the ruled changed between the posts.When we make posts we should try to stop assuming things. Thanks everybody for helping me with my posting and questions. On June 17 2014 16:07 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:I almost forgot about this due to the world cup The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you". I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time. Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy. I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others. I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him. Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow. ##vote 27ninjabunnies gk what is your read on mderg? I think its weird how he has only posted one thing. He sorta offers an excuse for that. The thing i find most weird is "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow". ..... I do not think somebody that is town would say hopefully i will post more after posting one post.
Other than that I only have null and townreads.
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Huh, examples of Snicker knowing his shit?
I do agree with that he is focusing on very small things. But is that alignment indicative?
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You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.
I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).
Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia.
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And yea I do know most of my shit. I may not know terms but I still knew lylo was a phase at the end of the game. Also look at this. Release said talking about pros was bad. I said I did not see it. Then agreed because talking about pr is the same way we try to find scum. It is logical. I still think he is wrong tho cause I never said 27nb is vigilante. I was talking about prs in general not specific to a person.
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On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.
I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).
Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia.
The bolded is completely wrong, reread please. I also never intended to say that the one post could be my only contribution day 1. I wasn´t sure how much time I´d have the rest of the day but I knew that I could devote some time to this game.
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On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically.
I used to think like you.
then a took a massive amounts of misslynches to my knee.
Truth of the matter is as simple as bad play=/=scum play. You can point out a billion things that are bad for town. But unless you display how that play is a good play for scum, the play is not alignment indicative. A super easy example is lurking. Lurking is obviously bad for town. But a scum that lurks is also very likely to get noticed because of his lown number of posts. Thus its impossible to tell that someone is scum just by looking at their number of posts.
On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).
I still don't see it. Why is breaking against your principles a scum trait? If anyting, I'd say it displays a town mindset by being willing to change your standpoint and not being afraid of it.
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On June 19 2014 04:57 Snickers wrote:
And yea I do know most of my shit. I may not know terms but I still knew lylo was a phase at the end of the game. Also look at this. Release said talking about pros was bad. I said I did not see it. Then agreed because talking about pr is the same way we try to find scum. It is logical. I still think he is wrong tho cause I never said 27nb is vigilante. I was talking about prs in general not specific to a person.
I really don't understand what the point that you're trying to make is.
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On June 18 2014 23:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
slOosh can you maybe give me your read on mderg? He was a counterwagon yesterday and all this VE talk is pretty fucking annoying considering you never really even considered lynching mderg.
On June 18 2014 04:25 slOosh wrote:
I don't think mderg is a good lynch.
His posts are consistent, and his notice of how people are reacting to Release is something that I felt too.
If you have specific things in his filter that you want to talk about, great, let's do that, but you will need to clarify what exactly you have problems with. I understand if you want to play a more laid back style of play, but if you want me to back off, give me something to work with, otherwise there's no reason for me to stop.
I think that based on how D1 went down, scum weren't in much danger of getting lynched, as I think mderg is town. In this position, scum tend to be lazy / laid back. In some sense lurkers who drop by to keep up appearances, but not really care about where the lynch lands.
VE your profile fits this. Again, if you want me to back off, give me something to work with.
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On June 19 2014 05:07 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 23:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
slOosh can you maybe give me your read on mderg? He was a counterwagon yesterday and all this VE talk is pretty fucking annoying considering you never really even considered lynching mderg. Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 04:25 slOosh wrote:
I don't think mderg is a good lynch.
His posts are consistent, and his notice of how people are reacting to Release is something that I felt too. If you have specific things in his filter that you want to talk about, great, let's do that, but you will need to clarify what exactly you have problems with. I understand if you want to play a more laid back style of play, but if you want me to back off, give me something to work with, otherwise there's no reason for me to stop. I think that based on how D1 went down, scum weren't in much danger of getting lynched, as I think mderg is town. In this position, scum tend to be lazy / laid back. In some sense lurkers who drop by to keep up appearances, but not really care about where the lynch lands. VE your profile fits this. Again, if you want me to back off, give me something to work with.
I intend to give updated thoughts on the game when I can. I couldn't care less if you back off me or not. Just because I think something is annoying doesn't mean I care if it stops or not. You're tunneled in on a townie, and frankly I think it's funny. I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not really that good in this medium anymore, but people just keep on lynching me expecting different results. That's insane. Ask Einstein.
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EPT
