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On April 16 2014 17:12 Kashll wrote:Show nested quote +BrTarolg wrote: Hitting someone with a shine, especially a sheik, is a really big deal lol
It's like, shine, grab, uair + juggle you got garuanteed 25% + garuanteed kill above 100% + juggle on platform (garunteed if right below)
Stuff like that is what I need to work on. Are you saying it's possible to shine, wavedash, grab a sheik 100%? Or is it a shine directly into a jump-canceled grab? (it seems like the latter is too short range to work). Whenever I waveshine someone I either run right into a getup attack (if it knocks them down), or end up too far so I'm grabbing behind their shield (which then gets punished). Ironically when they tech is when i end up the best because at least then i can try to chase them and setup some more decently spaced pressure.
Both actually lol
But shine-->wd is the preferred option Vs those it knocks down you can thunders combo them (especially heavier targets) theres a thread on smashboarsd about knockdown percentages and jab resets
And even then, a free knockdown+ techchase considering how fast fox is is easy to follow up on too
Fox's punishes are pretty free flow, but they are still some of the best in the game. If you watch a textbook fox like leffen you can just see him absolutely cream people after they make a mistake and he gets a shine in because from that point on your opponent is forced into some awful digital choices which all have bad outcomes
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What does Marth say (both in English and Japanese) when he taunts? I've been playing him a lot lately, so i was just wondering. I'm just another English-speaking man playing Super Smash Brothers..
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Hyrule18782 Posts
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So I have a Wii but no games for it or GC controllers. Assuming I get the games for free...somehow... Is there any real difference to learning to play on projectm vs plain old melee? Will all the moves I learn there pretty much transfer over to melee bc they're mostly the same? Also, how much would it cost to get, say, 4 GC controllers?
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Hyrule18782 Posts
PM and Melee are very different. It's like asking if learning SC2 will prepare you for BW.
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But technically, a lot of skills will carry over between sc2 and brood war, like learning to macro, controlling units, building workers etc. What's so different between projectm and melee (apart from character roster) that learning skills in pm wouldn't carry over to melee?
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all the timings and muscle memory will be different and the entire edgeguarding/recovery portion of the game is hardly even similar.
you can definitely learn things about fundamentals and spacing and neutral game and how to combo (though even this, since it's so tightly wound with tech skill, is sort of a mixed bag) and a bunch of other stuff, but generally players that are already super experienced will have a much easier time transitioning between the two games and applying their observations across, since they'll already be familiar with the specific details and nuances and can more easily see what to adjust.
for newer players, since you start off generally by developing a lot of mechanical skills, i wouldn't expect as big of a benefit across games.
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Aha, I see. This was the answer I was looking for. Thanks. I wasn't sure how different the two games were from each other, having only played them both a handful of times just casually with friends.
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I just started playing this game about 2 days ago and have a couple control questions, do players typically jump with X/Y, or up on the control stick? Also, I'm playing on emulator with GC controller so I have to set the controls myself, and I'm not sure whether L and R are supposed to be set to the triggers pressed all the way until they click, or the triggers just slightly pressed in.
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Not pressing L/R all the way will light shield. I've heard all sorts of people use x/y/up for jumping. I find myself using all 3. Do whatever is most comfortable as long as you're consistent. I'm sure someone else will chime in as to which buttons are more efficient, but if you're fast enough nothing is impossible (:
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On April 18 2014 07:19 Epishade wrote: But technically, a lot of skills will carry over between sc2 and brood war, like learning to macro, controlling units, building workers etc. What's so different between projectm and melee (apart from character roster) that learning skills in pm wouldn't carry over to melee?
Actually, most of those things you listed there are quite different between BW and SC2. With Macro, due to the lack of being able to select multiple buildings, you need to click every individual building and build the unit, otherwise have fun having your entire hotkey bar filled. Also, workers can't be rallied to mineral patches. Controlling units is very different due to the (simply put) dumber AI. If you simply send your army with an a-move to the enemy's base, they'll try to go in a straight line and funnel into the enemy base slowly. And as for building workers, Protoss has to use "p" instead of "e" to build probes and pylons. Not only that, but most of the hotkeys use the first letter of the structure or unit if possible. "m" for marine, "o" for overlord, etc..
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On April 19 2014 20:38 phantaxx wrote: I just started playing this game about 2 days ago and have a couple control questions, do players typically jump with X/Y, or up on the control stick? Also, I'm playing on emulator with GC controller so I have to set the controls myself, and I'm not sure whether L and R are supposed to be set to the triggers pressed all the way until they click, or the triggers just slightly pressed in.
Players will typically jump with the X button because it's a lot closer to the B button and C stick, not only that but for most players it will feel natural than the y button. The pivot of your thumb will allow easier movement going side to side between the C stick, B button, A button, and X button, than bending up and down between the A and Y button, then to move side to side between C stick, B, and A buttons. Tapping the Control stick up will usually be harder to do, or more annoying to do, because when it comes to SHFFLing, the movement of your left thumb will be pretty strenuous. Tapping it up (shorthopping), tapping it to the side(or not if you're nairing) and tapping down to fast fall.
It'd be hard to learn. but i don't think you want to learn that much, and learning to do it with precision. Plus it's wasting effort to do actions that would be a bit easier with both thumbs as opposed to using one thumb to do all the actions and the other thumb to simply tap A or B
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On April 12 2014 05:10 BlackPride wrote: Hey a buddy of mine plays sheik and is awfully defensive. I get shield-grabbed a ridiculous amount every game as fox and falco and just don't know how to combat it. The guy hardly wavedashes, isn't even trying to L-cancel and seldomuses any other advanced techniques. I do, and have pretty decent mechanics and tech for a relatively new player, yet I cannot beat this shield-grabbing. What can I do? I know its vague, but any advice will help.
best way to combat this with fox and falco ESPECIALLY, is learning how to nair shine or dair shine. This covers a lot of options, and learning how to do this will help you practice shffling. best way to practice this is by grabbing a second controller, putting it to bowser, putting damage ration to 0.5, and its handicap to 9. This will make sure it stays still(as if shielding) and you can practice your nairshine/dairshine along with the 1-frame lag. Not only will it help you practice shield pressure, but your hands will get a lot faster too. One of the best ways to practice techskill when you're starting off as a falco/fox. Also, try to space out the timing of your nairshine/dairshines because the odds of them grabbing out of shield at the exact moment you nair, or the exact moment of your shine is not probable. If you space it out, then your chance of shieldpoking is a little more likely.
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On April 19 2014 23:42 Airking990 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 07:19 Epishade wrote: But technically, a lot of skills will carry over between sc2 and brood war, like learning to macro, controlling units, building workers etc. What's so different between projectm and melee (apart from character roster) that learning skills in pm wouldn't carry over to melee? Actually, most of those things you listed there are quite different between BW and SC2. With Macro, due to the lack of being able to select multiple buildings, you need to click every individual building and build the unit, otherwise have fun having your entire hotkey bar filled. Also, workers can't be rallied to mineral patches. Controlling units is very different due to the (simply put) dumber AI. If you simply send your army with an a-move to the enemy's base, they'll try to go in a straight line and funnel into the enemy base slowly. And as for building workers, Protoss has to use "p" instead of "e" to build probes and pylons. Not only that, but most of the hotkeys use the first letter of the structure or unit if possible. "m" for marine, "o" for overlord, etc..
...I've played Broodwar. There's no need for you to tell me exactly what the differences are between the two games. It doesn't matter one bit that you have to select things differently and workers don't automine. My point was that by learning the foundations of macro and playing well in one game, you'd know what to do in the other and be able to do it just as well when you conform to that game. Please don't try to correct me over something that I wasn't even arguing over. Obviously the games are going to have differences...
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On April 20 2014 00:01 Epishade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2014 23:42 Airking990 wrote:On April 18 2014 07:19 Epishade wrote: But technically, a lot of skills will carry over between sc2 and brood war, like learning to macro, controlling units, building workers etc. What's so different between projectm and melee (apart from character roster) that learning skills in pm wouldn't carry over to melee? Actually, most of those things you listed there are quite different between BW and SC2. With Macro, due to the lack of being able to select multiple buildings, you need to click every individual building and build the unit, otherwise have fun having your entire hotkey bar filled. Also, workers can't be rallied to mineral patches. Controlling units is very different due to the (simply put) dumber AI. If you simply send your army with an a-move to the enemy's base, they'll try to go in a straight line and funnel into the enemy base slowly. And as for building workers, Protoss has to use "p" instead of "e" to build probes and pylons. Not only that, but most of the hotkeys use the first letter of the structure or unit if possible. "m" for marine, "o" for overlord, etc.. ...I've played Broodwar. There's no need for you to tell me exactly what the differences are between the two games. It doesn't matter one bit that you have to select things differently and workers don't automine. My point was that by learning the foundations of macro and playing well in one game, you'd know what to do in the other and be able to do it just as well when you conform to that game. Please don't try to correct me over something that I wasn't even arguing over. Obviously the games are going to have differences...
Well i was just saying that a lot of things between Brood War and SC2 don't transfer directly over between one another.
As for PM and Melee, despite it being called "Project Melee", a lot of the timings are very different and there tends to be issues with physics from time to time. Otherwise, the game transfers almost perfectly over. Some characters are almost exactly the same in Project M as they are in Melee (when it comes to their weight/gravity, speed, hitstun, knockback, damage, etc.), like Fox. Although, animation timing can't be changed without being completely being redone so that causes issues with timings. Also, some people say that Shorthop double lasers are easier on PM Fox as opposed to Melee fox, so people who try it in melee will usually have more issues (and most likely find themselves phantasming) if they think it's as easy in Melee as it is in PM. That's the issue with thinking PM techskill will transfer over to Melee techskill
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On April 02 2014 00:15 Capricis wrote: What are some good ways to find people near me that play Smash? Is there some sort of community listing? I live in USA, Kentucky.
http://www.smashboards.com/
probably the best place to start when it comes to smash in general. otherwise facebook will help you the most. Almost every region in the US will have a smash community, and if not, then start one yourself. maybe you'll find some people close to you that play smash. But if you're looking for tournament listings, smashboards is where you'll find them all. There's a subtopic in the forums labled "Regional Zones" or "Regional Tournaments" or something under tournament listings. If you wanna find a tournament near home, look around there
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On April 19 2014 23:50 Airking990 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2014 20:38 phantaxx wrote: I just started playing this game about 2 days ago and have a couple control questions, do players typically jump with X/Y, or up on the control stick? Also, I'm playing on emulator with GC controller so I have to set the controls myself, and I'm not sure whether L and R are supposed to be set to the triggers pressed all the way until they click, or the triggers just slightly pressed in. Players will typically jump with the X button because it's a lot closer to the B button and C stick, not only that but for most players it will feel natural than the y button.
Most players jump with Y. Y is closer to B so that information is wrong. Y also allows you to hit B without crossing over A to do harder laser/shine techs.
That said I use X.
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Hey I have a question for a experienced Melee player. I currently have a friend that I constantly play with lately he's been playing Marth and I play Pichu. I've been having a lot of troubling with the spacing and being killed when I have low damage by his side smash (Bad DI on my part I'm sure) and am currently only winning about 20% of the games we play.
Do you guys have any tips for me on how to improve?
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sounds like at a small part of the problem could be the character youre playing..?
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On April 23 2014 04:05 Rhodesian wrote: Hey I have a question for a experienced Melee player. I currently have a friend that I constantly play with lately he's been playing Marth and I play Pichu. I've been having a lot of troubling with the spacing and being killed when I have low damage by his side smash (Bad DI on my part I'm sure) and am currently only winning about 20% of the games we play.
Do you guys have any tips for me on how to improve?
1) DI better 2) Don't pick Pichu and expect to win
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