Otherwise I am waiting for my PS4, not sure if I use or flip it. So I'll look into the games until the 29th and then decide. Prob. not gonna keep it and use the money on better Hardware though.
The PlayStation 4 - Page 30
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DaMuffinman
Germany1705 Posts
Otherwise I am waiting for my PS4, not sure if I use or flip it. So I'll look into the games until the 29th and then decide. Prob. not gonna keep it and use the money on better Hardware though. | ||
semantics
10040 Posts
On November 19 2013 06:40 TheFish7 wrote: The same exact thing happened with the PS3, some very small number of units had faulty blue-ray drives. I was one of the lucky ones who got a faulty one and it broke after like 2 months, I sent it to Sony and they replaced the drive for free. I'm not sure if it is true anymore, but a few years back Sony had such good manufacturing processes that close to 0% of their units would be defective - this enabled them to drop quality control from their factories to save money, because it was cheaper to replace the very small number of defective ones than to run a QC department. Anyway the point is that problems like this, at least in small numbers, are fairly normal, and I wouldn't read too much into it nor would it stop me from buying one if I was going to do so otherwise. Sony's .4% seems way low considering a bit of business school know how gives you 7% of happy customers will write a review and 77% of unhappy customers will write a review. Now with that you tall 1 and 2 stars as DOA(this assume 2 stars are people sad at DOA but know they will soon get a RMA), so we get out of all amazon ps4s 899 bad reviews out of 2932 total reviews. Which becomes 1154.5 bad experiences out of 41885.7 total experiences, which is on target considering that NA amazon is likely to have gotten 40-50k consoles to ship on release. So that 1154.5/41885.7 = 0.0275 or 2.8% failure rate which is high but not unreasonable for a high volume item like the PS4. The concern is that this is a DOA, so it's a QC problem this doesn't even take into account problems that will arise weeks/months post purchase so in the end the failure rate is likely to be higher. It's concerning because Sony can't operate like that, Microsoft could bite the bullet, develop another revision and rma consoles but Sony has no cash reserves and is a troubled company so if their failure rate is high = very bad news for sony. | ||
Strivers
United States358 Posts
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
On November 19 2013 11:47 semantics wrote: Sony's .4% seems way low considering a bit of business school know how gives you 7% of happy customers will write a review and 77% of unhappy customers will write a review. Now with that you tall 1 and 2 stars as DOA(this assume 2 stars are people sad at DOA but know they will soon get a RMA), so we get out of all amazon ps4s 899 bad reviews out of 2932 total reviews. Which becomes 1154.5 bad experiences out of 41885.7 total experiences, which is on target considering that NA amazon is likely to have gotten 40-50k consoles to ship on release. So that 1154.5/41885.7 = 0.0275 or 2.8% failure rate which is high but not unreasonable for a high volume item like the PS4. The concern is that this is a DOA, so it's a QC problem this doesn't even take into account problems that will arise weeks/months post purchase so in the end the failure rate is likely to be higher. It's concerning because Sony can't operate like that, Microsoft could bite the bullet, develop another revision and rma consoles but Sony has no cash reserves and is a troubled company so if their failure rate is high = very bad news for sony. The 7%/77% thing is interesting but a portion of those reviews will be from people who simply do not like the console, people who are there to troll, or people who are rating a 1 due to shipment damage or non-delivery. It is really hard to predict 2.8% just based on the criteria you used. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On November 19 2013 11:47 semantics wrote: Which becomes 1154.5 bad experiences out of 41885.7 total experiences, which is on target considering that NA amazon is likely to have gotten 40-50k consoles to ship on release. So that 1154.5/41885.7 = 0.0275 or 2.8% failure rate which is high but not unreasonable for a high volume item like the PS4. The concern is that this is a DOA, so it's a QC problem this doesn't even take into account problems that will arise weeks/months post purchase so in the end the failure rate is likely to be higher. It's concerning because Sony can't operate like that, Microsoft could bite the bullet, develop another revision and rma consoles but Sony has no cash reserves and is a troubled company so if their failure rate is high = very bad news for sony. And really, this is not concerning for Sony because these devices are outright dead on arrival. This is nothing compared to the red ring of death where: - Microsoft initially outright refused to tackle a known hardware failure resulting from poor solder (we're talking about an initial 60%). - Microsoft were shipping a defective design that they knew about and often died within and outside of the warranty period. - There were a large number of issues with the console leading to a shitload of class action law suits leading to Microsoft offer extended warranty terms to people suffering from said issues. Those problems are the sort that will be troublesome for Sony but nothing suggests they are the same. This sort of issue is a speed bump in the grand scheme of things if production at Foxconn starts to sort itself out, like it normally does. QC issues are common in these sort of launches which is why you never really buy consumer electronics with pent up demand on day one because all companies will be pushing them out to the public as soon as possible. You end up with iPhone 5 phones with scuffed frames, backlight bleeding, or bent headphone jacks. Within a few months, these problems were basically fixed. Like Apple (they said "deal with it" but they actually dealt with it if you asked), Sony is aware of these QC issues and is solving the problem for the consumer right off the bat. Its premature to assume that they are caused by a huge design defect like Microsoft's original Xbox 360. It is a problem for everyone if Playstation 4s start dying left and right within 6 months but its a bit premature to start thinking like this don't you think? Considering we're talking about 1 million consoles being pushed out like mad to meet pent up demand for a new console and for Christmas. And even if they start dying randomly, the cash hit won't actually kill Sony believe it or not. They actually have money and assets. Their problem regarding stocks is because the investors don't see any room for growth at Sony hence why investing in the company is a dead end. You don't invest in companies with no room for stable or sudden astronomical growth because you get shit all return. Microsoft's strategy for this holiday season is no different. They're pushing their console out to consumers during the holiday period despite having software that can't do anything. It can't even tell you how much battery the Xbox One controller has left. | ||
Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On November 19 2013 11:47 semantics wrote: Sony's .4% seems way low considering a bit of business school know how gives you 7% of happy customers will write a review and 77% of unhappy customers will write a review. Now with that you tall 1 and 2 stars as DOA(this assume 2 stars are people sad at DOA but know they will soon get a RMA), so we get out of all amazon ps4s 899 bad reviews out of 2932 total reviews. Which becomes 1154.5 bad experiences out of 41885.7 total experiences, which is on target considering that NA amazon is likely to have gotten 40-50k consoles to ship on release. So that 1154.5/41885.7 = 0.0275 or 2.8% failure rate which is high but not unreasonable for a high volume item like the PS4. The concern is that this is a DOA, so it's a QC problem this doesn't even take into account problems that will arise weeks/months post purchase so in the end the failure rate is likely to be higher. It's concerning because Sony can't operate like that, Microsoft could bite the bullet, develop another revision and rma consoles but Sony has no cash reserves and is a troubled company so if their failure rate is high = very bad news for sony. I'm sorry to say that I must vehemently disagree with some of the jumps you are doing here. First of all you are using the Amazon reviews as your base stat, considering that those are not restricted to people who bought their product via amazon you shouldn't be surprised that it is one of the most manipulated numbers possible. I'd be willing to bet that both microsoft employees are there trashing Sony as well as Sony employees doing their best to convince people that their product is pure gold. That completely ignores the legion of fanboys who have been waging war on the internet since E3. In a few weeks/months we might be able to read reviews on Amazon and get a good idea how the system is, but currently it's trash. The PS4 launch so far might not have been perfect (heck which launch has been?) but considering that it has been more or less sold out in stores in Austria (as in I couldn't find one for my nephew so far in all the stores in Vienna) it looks like its selling well. That is basically the only thing Sony cares about. Small scandals are irrelevant as long as the sale numbers look good. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
But I have no doubt he's pulling numbers out of thin air like he's been doing for both consoles. This is the guy who linked a review of a Llano processor to try and prove his point that GDDR5 memory latency will utterly cripple the PS4 for UI things (hasn't really demonstrated this yet) and that "hardware is a wash" (yeah, which console has the higher resolution games again?). This sort of reasoning is what I expect from Arthur Gies. Needless to say, like Arthur Gies, he has a batting average well under .500. | ||
Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On November 20 2013 22:55 Womwomwom wrote: I think a lot of the reviewers are actually verified as owning the console so there's some weight in semantic's metrics. There are definitely a few DOA consoles out there and Sony probably isn't completely honest with their 0.4% or 1% or whatever figure they're giving right now. The good thing is that they're DOA and they're replacing them immediately, instead of pushing dead consoles out then going "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". But I have no doubt he's pulling numbers out of thin air like he's been doing for both consoles. This is the guy who linked a review of a Llano processor to try and prove his point that GDDR5 memory latency will utterly cripple the PS4 for UI things (hasn't really demonstrated this yet) and that "hardware is a wash" (yeah, which console has the higher resolution games again?). This sort of reasoning is what I expect from Arthur Gies. Needless to say, like Arthur Gies, he has a batting average well under .500. Maybe, to be honest I am far too lazy to actually look through thousands of reviews to check how many are verified, sadly I do have personal experience how highly manipulated amazon reviews and similar systems are. A friend of mine spent 3 weeks writing reviews for his employers products on Amazon instead of doing ads as he expected when he was hired in a PR position. | ||
PandaCore
Germany553 Posts
Still no game that I really want and judging from the announced games there's probably nothing even early 2014. While reason is telling me to just cancel and wait until there's a game I actually want, the irrational desire for new stuff is telling me to just keep it. Also I don't even have a bundle preordered, just the console and one controller... so might be the most sensible to just wait for a worthwhile bundle. | ||
DstryrEU
15 Posts
On November 21 2013 00:49 PandaCore wrote: Still not sure what to do with my preorder. Still no game that I really want and judging from the announced games there's probably nothing even early 2014. While reason is telling me to just cancel and wait until there's a game I actually want, the irrational desire for new stuff is telling me to just keep it. Also I don't even have a bundle preordered, just the console and one controller... so might be the most sensible to just wait for a worthwhile bundle. Personally I wouldn't buy it just yet. A launch system is going to have problems whether its doa or in 6+ months time, so rather than taking that risk now (since no decent software is out till march+ its just an expensive toy you wont even use) you should hold out for a bundle that you actually want. | ||
semantics
10040 Posts
On November 20 2013 18:09 Womwomwom wrote: DOA isn't the same as failure over time which is what Microsoft consoles had. DOA rate of 1% which is what SONY confirms it at, although i suspect it's higher. It's pretty poor considering they are likely selling the console at cost to retailers. Sony has a bunch of issues as a company as a hole for years it's bleed money and assets sony although had a large cash reserve like most Japanese companies they also have acquired a shit status for credit, as divisions like home and entertainment just bleed money for them, they don't nearly hold as much money as they used to. Just saying they can't afford to bite the bullet quite as much as microsoft did. They probably could replace every dead console if it's under 3% DOA+failure over time with-in the 3 year range, they can't if DOA+failure over time climbs above that, means they either need to do a redesign or more likely change suppliers / go though their manufacturing.And really, this is not concerning for Sony because these devices are outright dead on arrival. This is nothing compared to the red ring of death where: - Microsoft initially outright refused to tackle a known hardware failure resulting from poor solder (we're talking about an initial 60%). - Microsoft were shipping a defective design that they knew about and often died within and outside of the warranty period. - There were a large number of issues with the console leading to a shitload of class action law suits leading to Microsoft offer extended warranty terms to people suffering from said issues. Those problems are the sort that will be troublesome for Sony but nothing suggests they are the same. This sort of issue is a speed bump in the grand scheme of things if production at Foxconn starts to sort itself out, like it normally does. QC issues are common in these sort of launches which is why you never really buy consumer electronics with pent up demand on day one because all companies will be pushing them out to the public as soon as possible. You end up with iPhone 5 phones with scuffed frames, backlight bleeding, or bent headphone jacks. Within a few months, these problems were basically fixed. Like Apple (they said "deal with it" but they actually dealt with it if you asked), Sony is aware of these QC issues and is solving the problem for the consumer right off the bat. Its premature to assume that they are caused by a huge design defect like Microsoft's original Xbox 360. It is a problem for everyone if Playstation 4s start dying left and right within 6 months but its a bit premature to start thinking like this don't you think? Considering we're talking about 1 million consoles being pushed out like mad to meet pent up demand for a new console and for Christmas. And even if they start dying randomly, the cash hit won't actually kill Sony believe it or not. They actually have money and assets. Their problem regarding stocks is because the investors don't see any room for growth at Sony hence why investing in the company is a dead end. You don't invest in companies with no room for stable or sudden astronomical growth because you get shit all return. Microsoft's strategy for this holiday season is no different. They're pushing their console out to consumers during the holiday period despite having software that can't do anything. It can't even tell you how much battery the Xbox One controller has left. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
Instead of spreading FUD whenever possible (let's be honest, you've basically been doing this), let's stick to things that can actually be verified. Sony can bite the bullet because its doubtful its anywhere near as severe as the RROD. Nor are they making as much of a loss with these consoles as they predict they make a profit from a tie rate of around one or two games. And they're aiming for higher profit via forced subscription services. The difference is that this new console generation is all about making money. Both companies are not taking huge hits like they did with the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360. | ||
sitromit
7051 Posts
On November 19 2013 11:47 semantics wrote: Sony's .4% seems way low considering a bit of business school know how gives you 7% of happy customers will write a review and 77% of unhappy customers will write a review. Now with that you tall 1 and 2 stars as DOA(this assume 2 stars are people sad at DOA but know they will soon get a RMA), so we get out of all amazon ps4s 899 bad reviews out of 2932 total reviews. Which becomes 1154.5 bad experiences out of 41885.7 total experiences, which is on target considering that NA amazon is likely to have gotten 40-50k consoles to ship on release. So that 1154.5/41885.7 = 0.0275 or 2.8% failure rate which is high but not unreasonable for a high volume item like the PS4. The concern is that this is a DOA, so it's a QC problem this doesn't even take into account problems that will arise weeks/months post purchase so in the end the failure rate is likely to be higher. It's concerning because Sony can't operate like that, Microsoft could bite the bullet, develop another revision and rma consoles but Sony has no cash reserves and is a troubled company so if their failure rate is high = very bad news for sony. Amazon got only 40-50K consoles out of over 1 million sold in NA? No way, it has to be way more than that. And a good portion of those complainers are just console wars trolls. They're all over youtube, reddit and twitter, you can tell from some of the things they say that they don't actually own the console. | ||
semantics
10040 Posts
On November 21 2013 10:16 sitromit wrote: Amazon got only 40-50K consoles out of over 1 million sold in NA? No way, it has to be way more than that. And a good portion of those complainers are just console wars trolls. They're all over youtube, reddit and twitter, you can tell from some of the things they say that they don't actually own the console. That's 1 mil for total release brick and motor stores get priority about 50k for ps4 and 50k for xbox1 is likely all amazon got for their NA branch to sell. It's 1 million consoles for USA and Canada. If you think they got 100k or 200k+ then you vastly don't have a grasp on the industry. You can even do the numbers vaguely if you follow what statements have been made. All Amazon said about the pre-order sales for the ps4 and xbox1 is that they got more revenue than they made for their 2012 blackfriday video game sales. 2012 US blackfriday e-commerce made just over 1.04 billion in sales that day. Amazon does get the bulk of online sales but not the majority those sales, amazon sells alot more things then just video games, at probably an avg of 600 dollars a console(you're including things like games+controllers sold as they would for the figure thus you're including bundles). You arrive at about 100k so 50k assuming ps4 and xbox1 gave the same number of consoles to amazon to sell, that number is confirmed by the 7%/77%. Btw the vague statement by amazon about selling more consoles then in history off pre orders, well ps3 only had about 1000 pre orders from amazon when it launched, super easy to pass that up. On November 21 2013 09:05 Womwomwom wrote: And what makes you think its going to rise much higher than that? What makes you think its a serious design problem rather than poor QC problems like it likely is? Instead of spreading FUD whenever possible (let's be honest, you've basically been doing this), let's stick to things that can actually be verified. Sony can bite the bullet because its doubtful its anywhere near as severe as the RROD. Nor are they making as much of a loss with these consoles as they predict they make a profit from a tie rate of around one or two games. And they're aiming for higher profit via forced subscription services. The difference is that this new console generation is all about making money. Both companies are not taking huge hits like they did with the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360. The serious design problem? no such thing... Xbox RROD was not a design problem it was a problem with the manufacturers process lead to weak solders which could be affected by heat cycle periods. PS4 has a power supply problem in limited reports outside of the cheap HDMI port issue, that could be bad parts chosen by the oem when reducing the cost or the assembly process itself. Consoles are designed then they are tried to be made at lowest cost possible that when problems arise. A high DOA problem is not a great sign it implies quality issues which will persist for months or longer. Xbox360 did have a 35% RROD problem out of the box it had it months or year down the road to reach that high number of failure. PS4's aren't even making it a month, sony already admits to 1% after claiming .4% they are likely downplaying that as other like the figured i pulled from user comments suggest it's closer to 2.5%. Sony is going to downplay and lie when they can because statements like that hurt their stock, just like Microsoft did/will do if they have similar problems. Hell when you have so many failures amazon with the limited number of consoles they sold has to set up a special exchange you have a problem. You also say verifiable problems no such thing in the video game industry, everything is kept vague esp the numbers the video game industry loves this because there is little accountability to stock holders this way. | ||
Brett
Australia3820 Posts
I would express some shock at the leaps in logic you're making between known facts and your conclusions, but I'm not really surprised; the vast majority of your posts in this thread are obviously anti-Sony, and most of the rest are off-topic. E: Of course you're free to express your view, but if I were you I wouldn't expect to come in to this thread with this type of speculation expecting to change any minds. | ||
semantics
10040 Posts
On November 21 2013 15:31 Brett wrote: Less than 1% is what Sony has admitted to. I would express some shock at the leaps in logic you're making between known facts and your conclusions, but I'm not really surprised; the vast majority of your posts in this thread are obviously anti-Sony, and most of the rest are off-topic. E: Of course you're free to express your view, but if I were you I wouldn't expect to come in to this thread with this type of speculation expecting to change any minds. less than 1% is 1% there is only one reason to word it like that, PR. So it's larger then .8% less than 1% didn't want to post .9 or w.e and let people say well it doubled! wanted to make it ambiguous ofc so people wont look at .4% to the x% leap. And the leaps from logic is the only way to access the industry even within the industry it's very hard to get solid numbers. Hell VGA chartz is based off getting numbers out of distributors though back channels than extrapolating it out for the rest of the area. It's hard to do that with amazon because amazon loves to keep secrets hell the only had about 1000 pre orders for ps3 back when it launched but try to find that number online and it's difficult, ofc part of the supply problem with ps3 was due that they were taking i think a 300 dollar loss on every console sold at launch so they really didn't want to push up production. | ||
Suffo
United States936 Posts
was thinking of getting this Slick Deals HDD but I think its too big for it. 500 gb too small | ||
semantics
10040 Posts
On November 22 2013 10:22 Suffo wrote: What Size is the internal hard drive again? 2.5 In? was thinking of getting this Slick Deals HDD but I think its too big for it. 500 gb too small Yeah it's a standard 2.5 as long as it fits into a laptop it fits into a ps4, the only caveat is that it can't be ticker/height than 0.374"/9.5mm, some larger capacities and higher rpm 2.5" come in 0.59"/15mm so just be aware of that. http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation 4 Teardown/19493 Although i'm sure someone can just slap extension cables on the power and sata and just throw a 3.5" just laying it on top of the ps4 instead of secured in the case. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On November 22 2013 04:37 semantics wrote: less than 1% is 1% there is only one reason to word it like that, PR. So it's larger then .8% less than 1% didn't want to post .9 or w.e and let people say well it doubled! wanted to make it ambiguous ofc so people wont look at .4% to the x% leap. And the leaps from logic is the only way to access the industry even within the industry it's very hard to get solid numbers. Hell VGA chartz is based off getting numbers out of distributors though back channels than extrapolating it out for the rest of the area. It's hard to do that with amazon because amazon loves to keep secrets hell the only had about 1000 pre orders for ps3 back when it launched but try to find that number online and it's difficult, ofc part of the supply problem with ps3 was due that they were taking i think a 300 dollar loss on every console sold at launch so they really didn't want to push up production. Which is why we do not use VGA chartz because the numbers are unverifiable and nearly always wrong. You can roughly extrapolate rough sales from NPD and Media Create because they actually give sales numbers and from what they (or publishers/platform holders) say, you can extrapolate some sensible figures. Rather than make up numbers like some Tales game sold 200k in the United States (this is impossible but this is literally what VG Chartz thinks). The supply problem with the PS3 was because of the yield problems they were having with the Blu-Ray laser and Cell processor. It is also the reason why it cost a billion dollars to buy and make. Those problems are well documented. Not because they didn't want to sell the console. As for a previous post, yes the Xbox 360 had a design flaw. Dean Takahashi actually specifically mentioned what it was. The main culprit was insufficient cooling for the then ATi graphics processor, which led to overheating and high changes in temperature which would warp the motherboard. Because of the solder, warping the motherboard led to catastrophic failures over time. That is why Xbox 360 repairs during the period Microsoft admitted to the RROD problem all come with revamped cooling to minimise this problem. Early launch DOA/QC problems are nothing new. Even if it was 3%, it is still fairly low when it comes to consumer electronics. The problem is if its actually a serious design flaw where the DOA and failure rate increases or remains the same: if that is the case, then we can start being "concerned" about a corporation. | ||
DropBear
Australia4198 Posts
EU - €399 UK - £349 Aus - $549 Taking exchange rates into account its far cheaper in america than anywhere else. Is there a reason for this? Are americans getting a special price or are we being shafted as usual | ||
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