EPTPersonality Mafia 2 - Page 132
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Acrofales
Spain17713 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Vivax
21690 Posts
marv risk s&b yamato and some other dude I'm trying to figure out. Prplhz seems to be a trail cause of this: I haven't filtered prplhz, but his start was similar to his scum start from LIX, so he's worth a look to see if he shaped up or not while I was gone. Posted by yamato, he never followed up with it, nothing, zero, null. It was literally the only time he mentioned prplhz in the game | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On March 14 2013 07:53 Acrofales wrote: An active townie Yamato is a useful thing to have around. I am not really worried yet, because there's still about 10 people scummier than him, but active, townie Yamato has pretty decent scumhunting skills and they are being missed. Then again, half the active, townie people have gone buggering off this game. Iamp all game, Prom and Yamato today. sorry Acro my friend my duties know no end I'm reading and thinking wanted to let nukes stop stinking she is sick and I caring for my girlfriend. Foolish and Cora are scum X looks less dumb after X's use of his ##Kill I give him time to fill after the first two we run I'm torn on Vivax again in lvii he seemed like a friend in this game he is awful and rude does that make him a bad dude my time, rethinking I must spend I am here little Acro working on micro not macro I have less to say thread sees things my way unlike day one where I was pushing 'go ========================================================================================= Supersoft come on back you are confirmed townie, so attack everyone has to responded now that green you re-spawned why are you wasting this game-hack? ========================================================================================= what do we do about ver? I am now unsure he has left us in the dark a search party must embark his lynch I still won't prefer I see Imp is not playing to his red gods he should be praying he is getting less green innocent he doesn't seem soon my hounds will be braying remember stutters? my old brother has gone missing for days this isn't his town play after this post there was no other: On March 13 2013 06:15 Stutters695 wrote: Hey guys, just woke up. Catching up now. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Foolishness, I don't understand, you are batman? That is correct, I am indeed the batman. Your first post of this game was a strange story, and now you have posted another story, that's two days in a row. What gives? As I already stated, my role is such that I can never be lynched. Everyday I must tell a story about my adventures and that pardons me for the lynch cycle. That role seems a bit ridiculous. You can never be lynched?!?! Surely you must be making this up along with your other "shady" posts thus far. This is a themed game, and Greymist is the cohost. As we've seen from all his games, there is no limit to his creativity or imagination when it comes to thinking up absurd roles. I mean we just had 3 nukes go off which are apparently all duds. Is there anything else you want to come clean about since everyone wants to kill you? Yes, last night I shot yamato77, but my bullet turned out to be a dud. According to the notification I received, the role lied to me and I did not actually have a one-time vigi shot. Thus I do not think anyone interfered with my shooting last night (I wasn't roleblocked or anything of the sort). When I was notified that I didn't actually have a vigi-shot, I thought that the nuke was the replacement for that. That is, my role ability is actually "may shoot someone at night with a dud bullet. If this ability is used the player gets a nuke the following day which he may use at anytime." Someone brought up a good point, why nuke yamato instead of Ver or *insert other person here* who is suspicious? I said this in an earlier post, I believe marvellosity to be mafia so I do not trust what his check revealed. I don't think he has done anything to warrant us trusting his information. Think about if Ace (or BC acting as Ace) was in this game. He wouldn't believe a word of it and just lynch whoever was the best kill (yamato in this case), and wait until thing sorted themselves out. So why is yamato "the best kill"? First off, from what I gathered Ver was actually busy moving the first day and couldn't really post. Thus it seemed reasonable to give him another day to come in and make something for himself. Obviously if his inactivity keeps on this track we kill him immediately. More importantly, yamato is not acting like his town play and is pushing mafia agendas. His day vigi shot day 1 is an incredibly anti-town thing to do. Put yourself in that situation, would you day vigi someone day 1 as a town-aligned role? Hell no. We don't have specifics about his role, but if you had the ability to mod-confirm someone in the thread would you do it day 1? Hell no what a waste cause the mafia just shoots that person. The point is that there is no reason for him to use that ability as town on day 1 (no matter what his role PM told him). Furthermore, his actions from this have explained all. Since causing that shitstorm he has since gone mia. That is more of a mafia behavior because he doesn't want the town to realize everything I said above. He's gone into hiding to hope that people forget about him. A townie would be more adamant about trying to make up for his mistakes. I don't remember which game off hand, but there was a normal game in which annul (mafia) got LSB (townie veteran) killed in the day 1 lynch over a huge argument in the thread (like 60 pages long). After LSB flipped, annul went afk and made 1-2 posts per cycle for the rest of the game. It's the same thing going on here. As stated by a few people (including myself) yamato is playing completely different from his town game. In his town game he is more abrasive and direct about his insults (if he thinks you're an asshat, you are guaranteed to find out about it). And more importantly, he's always helpful when he's town. He says what he thinks and pushes his reads. This can be seen in Town Ain't Big Enough mafia. However in Fruity Mini mafia (when he's mafia), he sits back and let's the town do it's thing; he doesn't contribute. So overall yamato is not playing like he does when he's town. He's not helping us, and his day 1 vigi shot was incredibly anti-town. If he was town there was no reason for him to do what he did. But in your first post you seemed to accuse Vivax, and now you two seem to be butt-buddies. Aren't you contradicting yourself? No. In my first post I thought Vivax was suspicious, and I hinted at my reasoning. That story post was made in haste after reading the thread and I called him out based on gut instinct from his filter. I was in a rush cause it's the end of the school quarter here and I'm quite busy (e.g. research paper due, finals, etc.). Later in day 1 I examined the thread and I had time to analyze a few people (more on who these people are later in this post). I looked at Vivax's history and realized I made a mistake. There is a post in my filter which explains why. It should be noted that while Vivax is rather spammy and not the most coherent at times, it is 100% clear that he is putting in an effort to figure things out and get things done for the town. It seems you haven't been doing much to exemplify your so-called "towniness". I felt that I hadn't done anything day 1 or night 1 that exhibited mafia behavior. I actually felt I was playing more town than I normally do. Since I'm so busy, I just wanted to do the standard Foolishness town thing (call out a mafia or two on day 1 and mafia shoots you night 1), which happens a lot of the time when I'm town (see the mafia quiz if you don't believe me). Since I didn't die but I'm sure my reads are still right (see below for more information on this) I believe I wasn't killed because marvellosity is gunning my ass (doesn't make him mafia though, not at this point). So look back through my filter and ask yourself whether you actually thought I was mafia or whether you are just sheeping along with marvellosity and his cases that he refuses to post (pictures and two sentences is not a case). On a side note, my actions to kill yamato were what I perceived to be the best course to get people to see that I'm town considering that so many people are suspicious of me. I vigi'd him last night so that people could see I was serious. When that didn't happen I nuked him almost immediately (after ruling out Ver and marvellosity as the other candidates). Since I can't be lynched I thought that this would again put me back on track and get people to listen to me. Also my case on marvellosity is growing stronger as time goes on (more on that later in this post). And truth be told I still haven't had time to analyze and find the remaining mafia. That above paragraph seems to be suspicious. You basically just gave out a plan to get town-credit. If you have played with me before you may know that I believe town-credit to be a very fickle thing, and won't ever try stupid shenanigans to get town-credit as mafia (such as bussing my own member. NB this doesn't mean that it hasn't happened on my mafia teams in the past, it means that I don't agree with it at all). My goal is to find and kill mafia. I had one shot (or at least thought I did) to kill a mafia and that turned out to be a dud. My nuke is apparently a dud. With nothing left I just have to convince you guys that I'm on the right track and that my analysis of the town is correct. Okay, it's definitely clear that yamato77 is mafia, but what of your other reads? I will talk about marvellosity in a bit. After the nuke incident I believe that Crossfire is mafia. His nuke against me was an incredibly rash thing to do, especially after people in the thread were saying to hold off on killing me one more day (the same people who include a mod-confirmed townie). It makes sense from a mafia perspective. I just nuked one of their teammates so they are screwed, since dodging a nuke is near-impossible. They see this and realize that I'm on the right track in figuring them out (say for example I'm correct about marvellosity) so they nuke me immediately to prevent me from causing further damage. I myself, as mafia in past games, have done this many times. Some person comes out in the thread and kills a teammate or posts a big analysis that's very bad for our team, I shoot them immediately to stop them from doing further damage. Also consider the fact that crossfire was in no danger of getting killed at the moment. If he was about to get lynched I can see sending out a nuke as a last ditch effort to survive or make something happen (hey I just kinda did it, though my motivation is way different). It was completely out of the blue, just as yamato's day vigi was completely out of the blue. I analyzed this guy day 1 but didn't come up with anything conclusive. On one hand he hadn't done anything to exhibit being mafia, but nothing striking to say he was for sure town either. With his nuke shot we now know where his agenda is and what side of the town he's on. I brought up some of his posts before; I would like to reemphasize a few of them now to build the case stronger: On March 12 2013 12:22 Crossfire99 wrote: So I'm off to bed. It sucks wbg wasn't scum and was just a survivor, but it helps. I'll have to take a more thorough look at some people tomorrow when I have time. He made this post after wbg flipped. I find this post incredibly unnatural and forced. He knew he needed to post something but wasn't sure what, so he says something incredibly generic that adds nothing of value that everyone already knew. It was just a fluff post. Townies don't make fluff posts. On March 12 2013 11:19 Crossfire99 wrote: Uh is there anything specific you guys want me to focus on to make sure I spend some time on before the lynch? I'm trying to catch up, but need to know what would be the most helpful. The other thing I find very disturbing is that before getting lynched he asks the town what he should do last minute. I don't find this consistent with a townie player. In my experience when inactive townies are about to die (like in his situation) they post something like, "oh shit sorry guys, I know I sucked, but I'm pretty sure X and Y are mafia" and then they give a sentence or two on their reasoning. I've never seen a townie ASK the town what they should do. Townies don't need to ask each other what to do, they already know what to do! Find mafia and post cases! So in conclusion we can be certain that crossfire is mafia as well. His actions with the nuke are clearly anti-town, and he's done nothing to warrant town behavior, especially on day 1 and night 1. That's pretty cool and all, but what about these other people you said you quickly analyzed day 1? The people I looked at were Vivax, stutters, Promethelax, crossfire, and cDgCorazon. As stated above, I deduced that Vivax was town and crossfire was null at the time. I'm confident Promethelax is town, because even though he's posting in limericks he's being honest about his thoughts and reads. Stutters has never been mafia in a game yet (at least from what I see) so it was hard to make an accurate opinion but my gut said he was town. cDgCorazon I'm also confident is town because he's playing to his semi-trolly town meta as seen here. When he's mafia he's completely serious as seen here. I don't feel that he's pushing any agenda this game. Keep in mind all the above was made day 1 and wasn't completely thorough. Crossfire is for sure mafia, stutters I don't really know, the other 3 are probably town. You have any other reads since then? As I said in the thread, if risk.nuke keeps up activity level then he's town. If he keeps posting at the rate he has been posting at he's mafia. He has done this thing before (go inactive and act suspicious for a day). When he's town he will come back and be active and redeem himself. I wouldn't vigi him yet, but he'd be a good person to look at in another day or two. What of marvellosity's arguments against your play? I have explained all my actions up to this point and posted my reads. Furthermore, what arguments has he made against me that I haven't already covered? This is where marvellosity starts to break down as being anti-town. Three pages ago (at time I'm writing this) I asked marvellosity to write a nice long post detailing his case against me. But he refused and posted this instead:+ Show Spoiler + On March 14 2013 04:59 marvellosity wrote: ahahahahahaha. ahahahahahahaha. Let me repeat AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH. you're not fucking reading the thread. I don't need to write a big long post detailing it, I POSTED IT EARLIER. IT IS AGAIN IN THE THREAD. oh my god. He's also yet to post any long case against me since then. Now I am greatly confused by this. If he is town, why isn't he more than happy to make a nice long case against me, the person who he is sooooo sure is mafia? (NB when I say long case I mean on the order of five solid paragraphs or so, I'm not expecting him to spend two hours writing an essay). I know that when I'm town I'm happy to write nice long essays about why someone is mafia and all the research I've done. And I also know that when someone asks me later on I always give a short summary. That is I respond with something like, "I said this in an earlier post, but person X is anti-town for these reason, he's pushing this agenda, and he's not playing like he normally does when he's town." It's clarification to help emphasize my points and push my reads. Marvellosity on the other hand responds with LOL UR BAD SCUM. That is neither productive nor helping the town, it's doing the opposite. So until marvellosity makes a nice long post against me, what is there to respond to? I'm not wasting my time responding to his one-liners or memes. That's not a case. That's spam and clutter, and helping the mafia. And as my post recently said, I would like to point out marvellosity's similarity to wherebugsgo in Storm mafia. In that game wherebugsgo was mafia and did an excellent job for his team by spamming the thread with memes and LOL's and preventing anyone competent from pushing their reads. Of course, they are two different people and direct comparison is meaningless, but in this regard they are pushing the same agenda. So what is this beef that you have with marvellosity anyways? Let me put everything into context and explain how I know marvellosity is mafia. In the past three games I've played I've been mafia (filters here, here and half here). Marvellosity has been in these two games and both times he was town. In all three games I called him out on being mafia and he gunned me down for it (rightfully so I guess). I used this information to my advantage to set a trap for him (I hinted at this when I made posts saying "make sure your posts have a purpose", etc.). I will explain that in the next section, here I will explain why I think he's mafia outside of that. I was suspicious of him day 1 because he failed to do anything for the town. He's spammy, he clutters everything up, and he's not being productive. He's not getting the town organized, and that's the major problem. Now you might say, "well he always does that!", to which I quickly respond, no he does not. The most obvious example is when he smurfed as Fivetouch here. At a quick glance you can see how much he tried that game. He writes post detailing his thoughts. He doesn't derail the thread, he organizes the town. He does everything he should once he becomes mayor, and he wins the game for it. He hasn't done anything this game, look at his filter! One liners, one liners, one liners. Now you might say that doesn't mean much because he was smurfing. Yes and no. We should take that into consideration; it does mean something but not the end all to end all. What's important is motivation and goals. When he smurfed as Fivetouch, he got the town organized. Has he done that this game? Nope. Here are his filters to the game's where he's town: here and here and here. I like to use the last one (Bureaucracy mafia) cause I thought he did well for himself that game. What do you notice from his filter? Yes one-liners, no surprise there. But look in between them at his posts that have content. Like these for example + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote: I feel ok about either a BH or syllogism lynch right now. syllogism because despite being called out, he fails to subsequently do something. There's pitter patter about whether the nukes are real (?) and whining at Foolishness but that's about it. What gets me a little is that I don't quite get why a scum syllo wouldn't at least try to provide something for the thread BlazingHand is now looking like a decent lynch too. wbg's grilling of him reminded me extremely heavily of how I like to pressure someone I find suspect to gauge their reactions. I don't mind THAT much the reflexive *block* on its own. But BH seems to tie himself up in knots regarding how he views (or doesn't) Chezinu. For this he sounds like a squirmy scum. I also like the thrust of the tonality argument against him. Regarding layabout I keep hoping he'll pop up and actually post some shit. Actually I don't mind at all that he was quizzical about how sandroba played his card, what I do mind is that it's not surrounded or supported by anything else. As a sidenote, I found it really odd that Foolishness was sure originally a scum Palmar wouldn't suggest no-lynch (disproved by gonzaw). I often have a go at people for them trying to say how scum would or wouldn't act (Zentor is an easy example), but... Foolishness isn't Zentor. Dunno where I'm going with this. + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 22:18 marvellosity wrote: I wanna know what people think of HiroPro, coz I think he might be scum. There's some little things and then his behaviour surrounding BH. Little things: Quite willing to quote the OP when he's disproving someone else's point, but hasn't read it enough to know mafia KP is set at 1 from the OP as well. His behaviour with the random nuke thingy is bad as well. HiroPro is not Chezinu so I do not know why he was 'joking around' with pretending to nuke BH. I see no town motivation for this but the scum motivation of causing confusion and pulling out a town block is clear enough (lol jokes! isn't a defence). Says he holds his vote all the time ---> places a vote 11 hours into Day 1 on the back of sandroba saying BH is 'artificial'. BlazingHand things: I remember reading scumQT in Magic mini where Hiro said he was basically just going to tunnel Navillus. Anyway, at first he seems unsure what's scummy about BH: But once sandroba calls him scum, Hiro is all over it. Regarding the bold, here and in the posts below I bold some of the reasoning for Hiro's vote. A lot of it seems to be of the thrust that BH is illogical, without ever explaining why illogical has to mean scummy. So in the post above we have "doesn't make sense" and "laughable". Voting strangely... illogical reason. There's no explanation of the scum agenda. Same with "makes it seem as if he's coming up with reasons for his actions after he actually does them" - why is this a scumtell? Is it not true that mafia will give their posts more thought at the time rather than just posting blather and having to make up shit to excuse it later? Also for everything he actually stresses in this post "it's not my case". This seems like a weak sidestepping of responsibility. In short I don't like his given reasoning for going after BH, he doesn't try to demonstrate any scummy agenda. I asked wbg how you scumhunt scummily, and this is it. + Show Spoiler + On July 25 2012 06:32 marvellosity wrote: Oki doki, here are my thoughts (so you can hold me accountable, VE  )Meapak_Ziph: Yeah, there's a high likelihood he's scum. syllogism pre-empted what I was going to say about him a couple of pages ago: + Show Spoiler + On July 25 2012 02:51 syllogism wrote: He has been very passive and his behavior near day 1 lynch deadline was quite suspicious. First he wanted to switch from BH to Gonzaw because mattchew's vote was "stuck" on gonzaw. He also stated that he was fine with lynching either BH or Gonzaw and cites Sandroba's support being one of his reasons for support gonzaw lynch. However, after the no-lynch he started the blame game in a very noncommittal manner, vaguely alluding to people responsible for the gonzaw wagon when BH and austin wagons were "well established". Now, who is responsible for Gonzaw wagon? Sandroba and Probulous, the former who is considered nearly confirmed town by this point! He also says people who "threw their vote away" are also under scrutiny, but they certainly didn't come under any scrutiny from Mr. Meapak. It's also worth nothing that Meapak hadn't voted at all until he showed up 45 minutes before the lynch when BH wagon was the dominant one. He had to vote, so he pretty much had no choice but to vote BH at the time. It doesn't get much more passive than this: At the time Meapak is still sure that BH is mafia (though for some reason he writes a case on Rastaban instaed), but right after saying he thinks Zealos is mafia he weakly asks BH to write a case on Zealos. Now he, just like Palmar was, is barely posting and doesn't seem to care at all. Passivity is the name of the game. I have two recent memories of Meapak playing town, that is Liar mafia and LV. In Liar Mafia Meapak was a central figure, being a part of the meapak/gonzaw/ET town circle. More pertinently, in LV he believed he had found scum in VisceraEyes, and what did he do? He made a big case and then relentlessly pushed VE until he got his lynch. We have none of this here. Here he has 'found scum' in rastaban and makes a case. Except he never pushes anyone to lynch rastaban, even though he pops up on occasion to go "yeah rastaban is still scum" and the like. Meapak is uninvested and scum. Zealos - he is scum. Again he is uninvested in the game. He doctored sandroba's message to him in addition to not bringing it to the thread originally (I'm aware Kurumi flipped town, but it is definitely anti-town...). layabout brought up how Zealos played in Bang Bang. A decent filter comparison because he replaced into both games. It seems clear to me that Zealos was much more interested and invested in the course of that game (even if he did make questionable decisions). He was quite active and at least looking for some truth. Here his filter is defending himself poorly and very little else. What is Zealos trying to do? Also the case on Hiro is bad and smells of him making an effort because he feels he finally needs to. rastaban - not quite as sure with rastaban as I am with the two above, but I think he will flip scum. Earlier in the game, MZ's case was an accurate summation of rastaban's play. He was going wherever the lynch was easiest, taking the path of least resistance. Since the time of his case, he's pinged the other way in what reads to me as an artificial attempt at pushing new/interesting ideas. He magics a townread on Kurumi on the basis that Kurumi /outs a different game, and when the sentiment was anti-Foolish he buddies up to him Just the tone of how it's written feels fake. "Look! I'm being different! yay!" He also makes a bizarre case on layabout on the basis of wbg's nightkill. It was an entire case built on some wifom and fundamentally he seems to be thinking in a different way than I'd expect a townie to. Other bits and bobs: gonzaw: I seem to have a townread on him now having looked through his filter. His posts read as genuine and earnest to me. He's had a couple of dodgy reads which I'd love to say constituted an agenda, but he never pushed the misdirection of them, so I'm not seeing it. On Katina: her filter is interesting. My question to her some pages back re:syllogism was the question mark I took out of reading her filter earlier. I'm not quite sure how she can have a null read on syllo at the moment, syllo is too prominent for this to be the case. Some of it read quite decently though with her belief of BH/Palmar being scum. Basically I'm saying I'm on the fence with her atm. What is clear from these posts? He accurately posts his reads and make judgments about the players alignment (and they are mostly all correct as well). If you look through his other filters you notice posts similar to these. These posts are made by him and virtually say "these 3 people are mafia, here's why". And they are good. He's right most of the time and his content is clear. He makes a huge effort. Fivetouch he also made an effort, just an even bigger one. Now look through his filter this game and you see that it's all absent. He doesn't have these posts. All his posts are effortless. He is posting pictures and nonsensical one-liners calling people fucktards. And I even asked him to make a nice post but he refused. What townie would refuse to make a case on someone he thinks is mafia (unless he had a clear plan)? He's not organizing the town and he's not putting in an effort. On a side note, I find marvellosity to be less abrasive when he's town than he's mafia. This is the wherebugsgo mentality as I stated above. When these guys are mafia they are trololol all over the place, posting pictures and calling people stupid. But come time they roll town they put ithe best killn the effort, do the analysis and read the filters, make long posts, and win games. So what of this trap you set for him? As I said before, in the past 3 games I was mafia and called him mafia (even though he was town). So I decided to play on that to get him to react to my posts. Let's break this down further. In the past 3 games I called him out on being mafia hard. In two of the situations I even voted for him. Take a look at how I did this: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 10:17 Foolishness wrote: I don't even think it's worthwhile to bother with the swapping. Knowing Greymist there's probably random swaps every night whether we want them or not. We have to lynch someone, we figure out who. Other world should be figuring out who they want to lynch tomorrow. Anyways I'm voting for marvellosity cause he's mafia. ##Vote: marvellosity + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 05:22 Foolishness wrote: Everyone should ignore Mattchew. He's so far off topic that I'm even going to do this Ace style: Ignore List: Mattchew Chezinu - does anyone honestly ever read his posts? Syllogism is mafia. Non-committal stances, doesn't even want to defend himself. Someone needs to redirect that nuke at marvellosity. And the next time Kurumi uses the phrase "actively lurking" someone should shoot him. And before someone asks, Palmar is town. Mafia never propose stupid things like random lynches day 1. ##Vote: syllogism + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 07:01 Foolishness wrote: ##Vote: Marvellosity Save BC! Now I wanted to do the same thing this game but slightly different. My idea was, if I called him out on being mafia would he accuse me back? Probably yes, no matter what role he was. So what I needed to do was tweak the scenario to see if it differentiated from his normal town play. So first let's look at how exactly marvellosity responded to my accusations in these past 3 games where I was mafia. In Bureaucracy he played it very cool and posted only this initially: + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2012 06:41 marvellosity wrote: yeah mainly i'm just gonna lurk now if i don't get modkilled Foolishness is bad if he thinks i'm scum He only questions my motives and never hard attacks me. If you look through his filter (just ctrl+F my name for clarification) you see he's suspicious but doesn't hard push me until later when he's certain: + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 19:37 marvellosity wrote: Fuckity crap crap I get convinced to change my vote to a consolidation wagon and then at deadline if I'd just left my vote where it was before bed we would have had a lynch >.< Foolishness needs to die. The idea he's admonishing other people for what happened is laughable considering he did less than nothing to help. Well done him. "everyone's vote was wasted because there was a no lynch" - what kind of bs argument is that for the fact that he was one of the primary reasons town didn't secure a lynch? Stupid deadline. Game is partially ruined because like a third of the people playing can't be awake at 5 or 6 in the morning to move their vote around. And you'll see this is about all he does. No spam or one-liners or memes about me, just suspicion until he's certain I'm mafia when he pushes. In TL Mafia LVIII he again plays it cool and only really brings me up when necessary. This is about his only post responding to me: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2013 10:12 marvellosity wrote: Actually you're right for the first, but it's not quite what you think, and I don't mind explaining it a little. I was quite looking forward to this game because I felt there was a pretty decent chance I was going to be able to play town with at least 1 of Palmar or Foolishness. I've played with Fool twice only and he rolled scum, unfortunately, in both. Palmar I've played with a bunch of times, but so far always with the opposite alignment. Then after that Palmar has basically trolled most of the game (at least, playing nothing like his last few town games where I was either hosting or scum) and Foolishness is doing even worse than this. So yes, I've been disappointed with the game so far. A few times later in the game he says he'll gladly lynch me, but never pushed me hard or spams one-liners or posts memes. And now I will observe how he called me out in parallel worlds: + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2012 07:48 marvellosity wrote: Hi there. I'd made 2 small posts at the beginning of the thread when you called me scum Now you're a pretty clever boy and you know that's not alignment indicative. I start every game ever in the universe like this. And no, you're stupid accusation didn't panic me. You lost your aura back in Bureaucracy when you were so trivial to catch as scum. How could I divert the attention when there was nothing to divert it from? Oh look, marv asked why Clarity was in both worlds and said hi, he must be scum! Give me a break. My accusation of you (shallow as it may seem) had more depth and interest than your accusation of me. If you're genuinely town then you should know the posts I made at the beginning of the game are in no way alignment indicative, so I can only presume what you were doing was some sort of play to get people talking? Whatever it was, it was bad. + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2012 09:18 marvellosity wrote: so it's ok that I made 2 posts that were totally null and unalignment indicative, and it's not ok I called you out for your bullshit? From what I know/have heard of your town games, you usually take a more observing role Day 1 and then bust out your awesome reads come Day 2. Is this an unfair characterisation? If not, where does randomly calling me scum for something you should know very well isn't scummy come from? Again he just plays it cool and calls me out on my bullshit. But he doesn't hard press the issue until later in the game when he's sure I'm mafia. Here is a summary of what I just said. When I'm mafia I call marvellosity out for shitting reasoning (usually none) and I usually vote for him. In most situations I press it with shitty reasoning (such as "he's mafia, let's just kill him"). And he responds but playing it cool, calling me out on my stuff and slowly pushing my case days later. If you search his filter you'll notice he doesn't just focus on me, he looks elsewhere and only comes back to me after a day or two when I haven't done anything to change his mind. This is how I would expect a townie to behave. If you call someone out on being mafia and they are town they usually think about it: "hmm well, he's certainly wrong, but is he misguided or is he mafia pushing an agenda? Let's analyze his play and figure it out". This is what marvellosity does in those 3 games. So what was my plan? To subtly call out marvellosity to see if he reacts the same way or not. I wanted to see whether he followed the "hmm well, he's certainly wrong, but is he misguided or is he mafia pushing an agenda? Let's analyze his play and figure it out" line of thinking or not. My idea was that if he is mafia, he would react by jumping the gun and immediately accusing me and trying to get me lynched based off our past history, instead of just shrugging it off and taking time to analyze it as the days went on (which he does when he's town). I had to think long and hard how to write my first post about him. Take a look at what I originally say about him in this game: On March 12 2013 10:34 Foolishness wrote: I'm pretty sure cDgCorazon is town. At least right now he'd be a terrible lynch. Crossfire I don't know I haven't analyzed him yet. I actually think that marvellosity is mafia but I call him scum every game and I'm always wrong so that probably means as much as VE saying he doesn't post a lot. What did I do here? I said I thought he was mafia but I clearly doubted myself (and even tossed in the nice VE metaphor as well). I did not vote for him (like I did in the past). I did not definitively say that he should die (like I did in the past). In essence, I said he was suspicious but played it off as it wasn't a big deal. Then when he brought up that I always did it in the past I lied and told him that one game we were both town too. In actuality this was an honest mistake on my part, I was reading the game where he was Fivetouch and helping townies. I actually thought he might have been mafia on day 1 and into night 1 (you can ask sandroba or wherebugsgo as proof as I talked to them about it during the game). And hence I admitted my mistake, but I decided to outright admit to lying to see if he reacted to it: On March 12 2013 11:09 Foolishness wrote: I lied. It was whichever game you were smurfing. I wasn't actually playing I was coaching and reading along. And no we're not killing Vivax anymore. Now I don't see what's so bad about me saying this. I actually made a mistake and am correcting myself, he was right. But he flips his shit about it. I don't bring up marvellosity or this topic for a long while and he starts posting stuff like this: On March 12 2013 12:10 marvellosity wrote: There's extremely hard evidence that you've outright lied for no reason in this game, though. On March 12 2013 20:19 marvellosity wrote: i have no idea why people are listening to foolish at all this game. he outried lied to put suspicion on me (said he was always suspicious of me when we played together), THEN lied again when i pulled him up (said we'd played town once), and THEN corrected his story once again to that he found me suspicious in the game I smurfed (LIX), which for the uneducated was the game I tunnelled 2 mafia Day 1, got elected and lynched a mafia, then lynched mafia every day It's piles upon piles of lies as an excuse to call me suspicious, and it's all fucking bullshit. He still hasn't explained WHY HE WOULD LIE ABOUT IT in order to call me suspicious. So first I will correct his second post in that I only technically lied once. Though lie is such a harsh word, I made a mistake when thinking about your past game. He says that I lied to put suspicion on him (but I didn't). These posts are incredibly inconsistent and make no sense. I'm not even talking about him in the thread, I was talking about Vivax and yamato at the time and he flips his shit at me. What purpose does that serve for the town? None. He's bringing up past misunderstandings which already got settled for no reason. I shouldn't need to tell you that since then his posts have consisted of "lynch foolish he's mafia" without any substance. Why is this important? He didn't react like he did when he was town. He didn't stop to think about my actions, he just started gunning for me. That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't he just play it cool like in the past and wait a day or two to hammer me once the evidence had solidified? The only reason to gun for me immediately is to push mafia agenda. I would also like to say that a lot of my posts day 1 were purposely written to see if marvellosity would take them and twist them and call me mafia. Virtually everytime I posted he did just that. He's gut responding to everything I write to get me lynched before people start listening to me (hey as a mafia I've ordered my scumbuddies to do this exact same thing to people who are a threat). This may be a bit WIFOM, but it makes perfect sense why I didn't die night 1 if he's mafia. Imagine marvellosity making the post in the quicktopic: "foolishness is no threat guys, I can hammer him hard the entire game like I did in the past, let's kill other important players like BC and VE and supersoft". And that's what he does and that's all he does. Where is his contribution? He hasn't made a case against me. He brings up awful arguments. He quotes numbers and statistics and say it means something when they don't. He spams up the thread with memes about the things I say. He's not helping the town, he's derailing it. That was rather long, can you summarize that? I set a trap for marvellosity to see if he would act like he normally does when he's town. He didn't. This further shows that his actions to get me lynched pushes a mafia agenda by derailing the thread and keeping the town from getting organized. His tunneling me is not how he plays when he's town, and if he was town there was very little reason for him to take this course of action, especially since I never originally voted for him, or hard called him out. (In fact, I never said I was sold on him being mafia until day 2, and never said anything about him in between my first post and then). That's a lot of emphasis just to set a trap. How do you know it actually means something? He could just be conceited and acting this way because that's how he is. That's a true statement, however his actions are not congruent with his normal town play outside of this. Furthermore he's derailing the town and not helping to organize it. On it's own, no the trap doesn't mean anything. But all of the evidence combined together is what makes it solid, and why it is proof to him being mafia. Can you summarize your post cause I don't have enough time to read this? yamato, crossfire, marvellosity are all mafia, and should be killed in that order. The remaining two I don't know, maybe Ver or prphlz, maybe stutters or mocsta, not really sure. marvellosity has yet to provide a case against me (and he refuses to do so). One sentence is not a case. Read through his filter and ask yourself if he's really helping the town, or if he's pushing an agenda. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Vivax
21690 Posts
So he can blame the missing read on prplhz on inactivity, he visibly had no intention to post one. He played against scum prplhz in LIX so he should know better. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On March 11 2013 06:20 cDgCorazon wrote: I think Strongandbig's argument is very good. It's very convincing, but we are still a long time away from the deadline. Other than that, I've just seen a lot of nonsense and posts that I cannot understand. I was the first one to start scum hunting, don't accuse me of not doing that... Also, it's a bit frustrating to try and scumhunt and then have 5 people complain that no one has scumhunted... I'm doing things!. Corazon has a lot of posts like this in his filter. On March 11 2013 08:06 cDgCorazon wrote: The thing is, Oats' meta is not the main part of the case. BnS laid out many reasons as to why he thinks Oats is scum and I just made a comment that I liked his case and that it had a lot of valid points in it. Let me ask you this Marv: Would you rather I... Say "I agree with SnB" and just vote for Oats? or Say "I think it's a good case but I'm going to continue to scumhunt and push my top scum read" If you prefer #1 it would be such a glaring scumtell. I'm really concerned about my appearance! On March 11 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I still think Yamato is mafia and I am going to keep saying so until he does something to convince me otherwise. This is my tunnel and I'm gonna fucking do it at the expense of doing anything else in the thread! On March 12 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: He made one post saying that VE was "acting suspicious" and then made a bunch of other posts saying "VE is scum lynch him". Did I miss something? His only saving grace is that he said Kurumi or Bugs was scum and now that he decided Kurumi was a good vig target he's going after bugs. Taking an opinion of the majority of the thread and going after bugs along with everyone else is lazy town play at best. As I've said before, something is off about Yamato. He needs to die. Yes, this is still my tunnel guys! Just gonna keep on doing this thang! On March 13 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote: You can sit here and mislynch me all you want. My death will only confirm Yamato and Mocsta being scum. Martyr myself to not confirm anything! On March 14 2013 05:59 cDgCorazon wrote: Well then why does everyone sit around and make 30 pages of shit debating whether the nukes are fake? I'm pushing my top scumread, it's not my fault that you won't agree with me. Yamato is still my top scum read and my flip will only confirm that even more. If you didn't notice I had a whole part about his vote on Bugs. I would not have a problem with him voting for Vivax (someone he had a scum read on earlier). The fact that he decided to vote for bugs looks really obvious that he's just trying to sheep off of everyone. I never tried to discredit his reasoning, I just pointed out that his random decision that I was his top scum read was timed with everyone else's attack on me. Now that I'm not talked about for awhile, he stops pushing me, even though he thinks I should "die with fire", or however he phrased it. Still tunnelling! Still martyring and talking about confirming mafia in a mythical world! Anyway, those ones are fun. These are the REAL excellent ones. Witness: On March 11 2013 11:06 cDgCorazon wrote: What else am I supposed to say? You didn't ask any questions, you just came to conclusions. Not only were you lazy and basically lied about my stance on a Yamato lynch, you basically said "Corazon is scum beacuse..." and put it in question form, basically saying you do not care about my answer and that you are going to sit here and use your vote on me as an excuse to not scumhunt and post silly pictures of whatever you posted before. Your vote is fucking stupid. Asking for the same reply I give everyone else, just with a reply to your quote, is just you trying to look like you are scumhunting. Do you really think I am scummier than Yamato or anyone else who has been discussed as possible scum so far? The trend here is - surely I'm not the ABSOLUTE scummiest? On March 11 2013 12:18 cDgCorazon wrote: Moc if you think you are scumhunting, you better look it up in the dictionary. You're piggybacking off of Vivax and Marv's arguments and you're only calling Prome's posts unreadable because he is basically saying you are playing bad. You REALLY think Yamato is [not - sic] scummier than me? Just think about it... This guy really isn't EVEN SCUMMIER than me? On March 13 2013 13:56 cDgCorazon wrote: Moc your case is: Corazon is tunneling Yamato Corazon is worried about his image (based off YOUR interpretation of my posts) In what world is that enough to want to lynch me now? There isn't ANYONE else scummier than me? He even said this one himself. On March 14 2013 06:19 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm sticking to my guns: Yamato is scum. There's no way I've been the least productive player this game. There must be SOMEONE scummier than me? Guys? Please??? This is absolutely classic survival instincts, bleeding through loud and clear. He's not arguing that he's townie, he's arguing that there's someone else who's scummier so we should leave him, for now. This is in no way a townie mindset. This is in addition to the fact he's basically completely refused to comment on anything to do with Foolishness, despite being given numerous opportunities to do so. Corazon has absolutely no idea how to deal with the impending lynch of his mafia-buddy. This is pretty apparent. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17713 Posts
Is Vivax scum? Or just fucking nuts? Why do Risk and SnB suddenly appear randomly in a list? WHY? I don't disagree with you on risk, he is lurking, which is his scum meta, but wtf. Also, SnB looks quite townie. You had scumreads on other people, which have been dropped and now SnB and risk appear randomly. You forgot all about Ver, all of a sudden, while you called him scum like half an hour ago. You were thinking about nuking Dandel Ion. It makes no sense. Oh, and the whole nuke distraction shit made everybody forget about your horrid breadcrumbs which you didn't follow up on. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
marvellosity is more abrasive when he's mafia than when he's town lol, no. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
when not painted green by mod's brush? I have never seen him try when he is a bad guy I'm willing to give him one more day as such But I am still unsure his reads are impure he has three on my greens bursting red from the seams I'll be back soon, I'm off to the store. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Vivax
21690 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:10 Acrofales wrote: Goddamn it. I can't make sense of Vivax. Is Vivax scum? Or just fucking nuts? Why do Risk and SnB suddenly appear randomly in a list? WHY? I don't disagree with you on risk, he is lurking, which is his scum meta, but wtf. Also, SnB looks quite townie. You had scumreads on other people, which have been dropped and now SnB and risk appear randomly. You forgot all about Ver, all of a sudden, while you called him scum like half an hour ago. You were thinking about nuking Dandel Ion. It makes no sense. Oh, and the whole nuke distraction shit made everybody forget about your horrid breadcrumbs which you didn't follow up on. What are you trying to achieve with this post? Are you quoting something as counter evidence? Do you think I'm nuts/scum whatever for bringing up Nuke(mentioned him earlier btw)? I put nuke into that list cause I've been looking at yamato's filter, and he calls a lot of people lurky shits but nuke never is among them. I'm simply working from the premise that scum doesn't try to bring attention to their own teammates. Acrofales if you're town you're being disruptive, an ass and not helpful, you try to drag me into a conversation that is unproductive and not to dissuade me from the things you disagree with or push the things you agree with. Regardless of my earlier play I'm currently trying to play the game at the best and most diplomatic of my abilities so get your shit together and actually try to move the ship towards a safe haven instead of insulting me constantly. Disagree? | ||
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Vivax
21690 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:14 marvellosity wrote: I have to watch some Walking dead with my other half, but I picked this out of Foolishness' post: marvellosity is more abrasive when he's mafia than when he's town lol, no. I would like to note this is a common strategy by marv in this game. Whenever someone posts cases against him or people he doesn't want lynched he picks a part that is attackable/unclear and tries to pull you into conversation about that or inflate that part while completely disregarding the rest. If that's the whole thing marv is able to counter then we can effectively say he doesn't know how to defend himself from the majority of the case. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17713 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:22 Promethelax wrote: has foolish ever written so much when not painted green by mod's brush? I have never seen him try when he is a bad guy I'm willing to give him one more day as such But I am still unsure his reads are impure he has three on my greens bursting red from the seams I'll be back soon, I'm off to the store. This. That was a ridiculously long post. It doesn't convince me at all that Marv or Yamato are scum, and I was leaning scum on Xfire yesterday, but the whole nuke thing has me wondering. However, the whole story about the trap seems completely deluded, yet sincere. However, he has a town read on my scumreads and a scumread on my town reads. It's just too fucking weird. Either I am completely wrong, Foolishness is completely wrong, or Foolishness is scum. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17713 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17713 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:26 Vivax wrote: What are you trying to achieve with this post? Are you quoting something as counter evidence? Do you think I'm nuts/scum whatever for bringing up Nuke(mentioned him earlier btw)? I put nuke into that list cause I've been looking at yamato's filter, and he calls a lot of people lurky shits but nuke never is among them. I'm simply working from the premise that scum doesn't try to bring attention to their own teammates. Acrofales if you're town you're being disruptive, an ass and not helpful, you try to drag me into a conversation that is unproductive and not to dissuade me from the things you disagree with or push the things you agree with. Regardless of my earlier play I'm currently trying to play the game at the best and most diplomatic of my abilities so get your shit together and actually try to move the ship towards a safe haven instead of insulting me constantly. Disagree? Okay. Why have you stopped thinking Dandel Ion is scum? Why have you stopped thinking Ver is scum? Why is SnB scum? The point of that post wasn't to get a discussion going WITH you, but ABOUT you. The way you've been yelling and carrying on in this game made me think it was pointless to try to discuss things with you. But I'll give it a go if you've calmed down. | ||
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Vivax
21690 Posts
Is there anything else you want to come clean about since everyone wants to kill you? Yes, last night I shot yamato77, but my bullet turned out to be a dud. According to the notification I received, the role lied to me and I did not actually have a one-time vigi shot. Thus I do not think anyone interfered with my shooting last night (I wasn't roleblocked or anything of the sort). When I was notified that I didn't actually have a vigi-shot, I thought that the nuke was the replacement for that. That is, my role ability is actually "may shoot someone at night with a dud bullet. If this ability is used the player gets a nuke the following day which he may use at anytime." Doesn't it mean that Foolish' nuke has not been given to him by SlOosh? O_o | ||
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Vivax
21690 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
good job. You gave to nukes to the right people. Really well played. Seriously. Okay my new circle of trust: Prom, sloosh, Foolishness, vivax, cDgCorazon. You don't vote each other. | ||
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