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Alright, after playing a shitton of jungle these last few days, I have come to the realization that many people (maybe even the majority of LOL players) have no idea how to support a simple gank from the jungle.
What do I mean by this? What is supporting a gank? Well my friends, supporting a gank is the actions the lane takes in order to assist their jungler in killing off their laning opponent(s). There are a myriad of complexities to this process based on situation and champions involved, but there are a few basic concepts that people seem to have a hard time understanding.
Here is a diagram of a lovely bot lane (pretend top tower is yours despite label):
Its pushed hard, the enemy has been crapping on Trist and Taric for the whole game, and you can bet they have been whining like little bitches for a gank. Now their dreams have been answered: friendly trundle has approached the bot lane completely undetected, and hes ready to gank! Now he is sitting in the bush waiting...."what on earth is this trundle waiting for?" wonder Trist and Taric. They conclude he must be a shitty jungler.
THE LESSON: When your lane is getting ganked, 99% of the time, you, the lane, need to make the first move. There is nothing more infuriating as a jungler than to show up in the above situation, and have Taric and Trist continue to sit there under the turret, so far back that they cannot assist with anything.
THE BEST WAY TO INITIATE A GANK IS WITH THE LANER(s), JUMPING INTO A BAD FIGHT.
Yes, thats right, you need to engage in a shitty fight that you will lose. Do something retarded, or at the very least dumb. If you are a top lane, just go up to the enemy and start hitting him. Trade damage in a way that the enemy KNOWS THEY WILL COME OUT ON TOP. This way, when the jungler leaps out of the bush, the enemy is already at probably half health and may have blown all of their skills. EASY KILLS.
Think of it this way: You are a Nasus going up against Renekton. You are winning the lane and he is pushed back under tower. You are in the middle of the lane.
Situation A: Trundle leaps out of the river bush and charges you.
Situation B: Renekton comes forward, hits a few CS and then starts attacking you.
What happens 90% of the time in these situations?
Result A: You immediately realize this is a 2v1, throw wither on trundle and run back to your tower. Fail gank.
Result B: You know you can take Renekton, so you attack back, trade some damage and then pop wither on Renekton to slow his DPS and allow you to get the kill. Suddenly Trundle appears mid-duel and pillars you, you are left with no chance to escape and die.
IF YOU CAN SURVIVE IT, ALWAYS TRY TO INITIATE A DAMAGE TRADE OR DUEL IF YOU HAVE A JUNGLER IN POSITION. THIS WILL RESULT IN OVER 9000% MORE SUCCESSFUL GANKS, ESPECIALLY IN SOLO QUEUE.
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this has the makings of a good guide
if it had a little more info and a little less rage :p
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Tell them teammates to get baited. Always works.
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this is going to be the subject of one of my videos O_o would you like to co-host that video sob3k?
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The towers appear to be mislabled.
How can one follow instructions to ignore lables?
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time to show this to everyone i know :3
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Another thing worthy to point out, is how baiting like your scenario, can be done even when there's wards especially on a heavy pushed top with bad placement wards. Most people who plays blue always seem to only use 1 ward, so they got vision from river and tri-bush, this will sometimes allow you as the jungler, to actually pressure at least a flash.
Stay in the tri-brush, tell top to derp real hard and make the enemy focus more on hitting your top laner than looking at their mini-map.
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What if the jungler is someone like rammus/shaco who I see tend to powerball/deceive in and taunt/start attacking, making the first move? Are they doing that wrong or are they excepted because they are so mobile and lockdown so hard or do so much damage?
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Wait so the Nasus was winning vs Renekton? Everyone knows Nasus cannot escape Renekton.
But on a serious note this is nice and mostly common sense for better players
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Generally if the jungler lacks a good gap closer then it's up to the lane to make the first move. Even so, it is usually better for the lane to make the first move because a rammus coming into an engaged enemy is a lot better than rammus coming from behind. Same goes for shaco, just they can force ganks a lot better than most jungler. When they decieve in, it's expected that you move RIGHT THEN to go after a fight, and they will pop up at the start of an engagement for a nice easy kill. Heroes with strong ganks can manage that, heroes like trundle that would love to land a nice skill like pillar and without a gap closer would much rather have the lane start a fight.
The only problem with this guide is when your lane has been passive as hell, and suddenly if they move to fight something they know they cant win, it appears quite suspicious. For example I'm laning top, as poppy, harass a riven down to like 40% when I'm at 75%, and then she just starts rushing towards me. It's pretty clear to me that something is wrong. But in a lot of lanes where someone is slightly losing or is at decent enough health for it to be a somewhat reasonable idea to try to trade, the guide is right.
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On April 06 2012 16:52 Altar wrote:Wait so the Nasus was winning vs Renekton? Everyone knows Nasus cannot escape Renekton. But on a serious note this is nice and mostly common sense for better players No, seriously. How in blue fuck would Nasus ever beat Renekton?
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On April 06 2012 17:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 16:52 Altar wrote:Wait so the Nasus was winning vs Renekton? Everyone knows Nasus cannot escape Renekton. But on a serious note this is nice and mostly common sense for better players No, seriously. How in blue fuck would Nasus ever beat Renekton? Lol yeah, I get trashed like fk. Usually just try to farm for lategame.
Nice guide from the jungle perspective but it really depends on the situation. With a good gap closer and disables and/or the laners are low hp, the jungle should probably initiate.
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On April 06 2012 17:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 16:52 Altar wrote:Wait so the Nasus was winning vs Renekton? Everyone knows Nasus cannot escape Renekton. But on a serious note this is nice and mostly common sense for better players No, seriously. How in blue fuck would Nasus ever beat Renekton?
Blue. Answer own question gg!
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On April 06 2012 17:02 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2012 16:52 Altar wrote:Wait so the Nasus was winning vs Renekton? Everyone knows Nasus cannot escape Renekton. But on a serious note this is nice and mostly common sense for better players No, seriously. How in blue fuck would Nasus ever beat Renekton?
Armour! If nasus gets out of early game with some farm renekton is pretty screwed actually. Renekton isn't a stronger 1v1'er he just trades really annoyingly with his jump in and jump out stuff. Renekton can push faster but nasus just farms q all day.
Also this guide is a good example of why you can't gank when bottom lane is failing so hard they are like both 30%. They can't engage but if you engage they'll CC you get and get away, so no matter how much they whine you guys need to go back and heal first.!
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I guess I've been screwing up in this aspect then because I've always been afraid that it might be too obvious that the jungler is waiting to gank for me when I suddenly run up there to try to trade/initiate with them. Guess that mentality was wrong (or at least, most of the times not good).
Thanks for the info. Will put that into good use.
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most of the time if you are in that position you should NOT gank as the jungler. The botlane would loes too many creeps and the botlane is mostlikely too low. With not ganking I actually mean you should sometimes show presence on botlane so that their botlane backs out : you give room for your botlane to catch up in farm/life/levels.
It is not always good to gank and even if many junglers dont want to believe that they should not blindlessly gank and then flame their lane that they dont follow up.
Edit: usually the jungler should go first because it is way too obvious if the botlane starts randomly walking towarsd the enemy (of cause it depends but I would say 60% jungler 40% lane, the lane should start walking when the jungler starts moving ofc not that easy to time correctly)
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I agree with everything said, but at the same time, you can't always engage fights as a laner and expect the jungler to follow through in solo queue. There's simply not enough communication usually.
I've had many situations where I'd go in first as the laner, get killed, while the jungler sits in the brush going "noob y u go in i was gonna gank"
Of course, I can remember just as many situations as a jungler where I went in first, died 1v2, while the Trist and Taric sit under their tower picking their noses.
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If OP actually wants to flesh this out into a true "how to support jungle ganks" thread, I'd suggest touching on warding. I for one demand info from my lanes about where the lane is warded before I come and try to get them to time when wards go down. Nothing more sexy then just running through river 5 seconds after a ward expires.
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