Cuty[gm] Dream.t)PltO - Page 2
Forum Index > Replays |
kidd
United States2848 Posts
| ||
outqast
United States287 Posts
what do you do against a turtling toss? The zerg had most of the map, but frozen arbiter just turtled that expansion and it didnt seem like anything the zerg did could have killed him. | ||
Sir Alex
United States159 Posts
Basically anything unusual, anything but the continual weaksauce hydra/ling drops he resorted to at the very end. When I watched the very last load of lings coming in I was shaking my head and wondering how Z could possibly think this would work. FA seemed to have his game sense on every step of the way and just knew what would keep coming. Of course, that's just me bein crazy, Z admittedly didn't have that much gas I think. Watching his drones at his last center expo and noticing they were dying like flies to storm might also have helped. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
The thing about rush hour is that the the empty main and its natural is worth more than 2 of the gas/mineral expansions, and as long as you control the main, you definitely control one of the 2 mineral only expansions (zerg can't do anything to stop you from storming drones there). If you are lucky and start at 7 and empty main is at 11 you control both mineral onlies. So basically, as long as you can secure the empty main without too much cost, you have won. This is because there's only 2500 gas in the secondary gas expansions, meaning if you've mined out one, zerg has already mined out his, then him taking the last one doesn't matter at all, it's not worth half of what that main is worth. As for mutalisks, impossible with only 2500 gas expos, especially since I had like 10+++ high templars and tons of cannons for the most part. He could have made some queens tho. | ||
tKd_
United States2916 Posts
btw gg | ||
decafchicken
United States19904 Posts
| ||
RiSE
United States3182 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 21 2006 07:34 decafchicken wrote: BWLauncher must be on.How do you watchi this rep? | ||
SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
That was ROFL~ I finally saw it with everything running... come on~ | ||
outqast
United States287 Posts
On August 21 2006 03:54 FrozenArbiter wrote: @Outqast and Sir Alex: The thing about rush hour is that the the empty main and its natural is worth more than 2 of the gas/mineral expansions, and as long as you control the main, you definitely control one of the 2 mineral only expansions (zerg can't do anything to stop you from storming drones there). If you are lucky and start at 7 and empty main is at 11 you control both mineral onlies. So basically, as long as you can secure the empty main without too much cost, you have won. This is because there's only 2500 gas in the secondary gas expansions, meaning if you've mined out one, zerg has already mined out his, then him taking the last one doesn't matter at all, it's not worth half of what that main is worth. As for mutalisks, impossible with only 2500 gas expos, especially since I had like 10+++ high templars and tons of cannons for the most part. He could have made some queens tho. Yeah so in theory you have been beaten by zergs when you were in such an "advantageous" position. Besides a massive screw up by you, what strategy did the zerg use to defeat you? | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
And I can barely think of a single game where a zerg took them and lost. Well, actually 1, but I wasn't ahead so taking that main was like an effort to get back on even footing. + I'm not sure I ever took the main, might have been just the nat. | ||
outqast
United States287 Posts
As an observer, it looked like you were able to defend an awful lot of units with your fortification at your natural. Upon watching the replay again, while you were defending your top expansion he constantly had 20~30 more population than you until the very end. Not to mention he mined 30,000 more resources than you. He did throw a lot of units at you, but it seems like he did little or no damage to you for the last 20 minutes. Your base just looked inpenetrable to me and that is why you won. | ||
thedeadhaji
39479 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 21 2006 13:17 outqast wrote: So In this situation, you contended won because you had advantageous resource position and you were able to sustain your army better than he could. As an observer, it looked like you were able to defend an awful lot of units with your fortification at your natural. Upon watching the replay again, while you were defending your top expansion he constantly had 20~30 more population than you until the very end. Not to mention he mined 30,000 more resources than you. He did throw a lot of units at you, but it seems like he did little or no damage to you for the last 20 minutes. Your base just looked inpenetrable to me and that is why you won. Uhu, because the main is so much better than the rest of the map all you have to do is defend it -, .- If you look at first half of the rep I out supply him by more than 20-30 most likely, but can't win because his defence is too good, securing that main and playing like I did is just returning the favour. If I had tried to pull the same defence at 5 o clock instead I would have been RAPED as I wouldn't have had any gas. So, to summarize: 1) Controlling free main on rush hour = most important part of the map, so therefore whoever tries to take it can expect a hard fight for it. 2) I win because he failed to wrest control of 11 o clock from me. If he hadn't attacked, yes, I would have been able to replace my units way more effeciently than him (or just made carriers, he doesn't have any gas to counter, he dies). Also, in this game I never did control both the main and natural for any substantial amount of time, so his drops almost gave him the game. | ||
outqast
United States287 Posts
So, to summarize: 1) Controlling free main on rush hour = most important part of the map, so therefore whoever tries to take it can expect a hard fight for it. 2) I win because he failed to wrest control of 11 o clock from me. If he hadn't attacked, yes, I would have been able to replace my units way more effeciently than him (or just made carriers, he doesn't have any gas to counter, he dies). Also, in this game I never did control both the main and natural for any substantial amount of time, so his drops almost gave him the game. So basically, his mistake was not fortifying that expansion early enough and letting you gain a foot hold. If he had taken that base earlier and turtled it, it would have prevented you from getting to that point. Hmmmm... not really the answer to my question, but I appreciate your analysis on the game. The reason why I keep bringing up the defense issue is as a zerg player I find a constant problem of mine is that I will get to the point of a game where I will be in an advantageous position economically and I own a large portion of the map. But for any zvt and zvp, the opponent will just turtle and I find myself having my population maxed and my units just going to waste on his defenses. Admittedly, I do not have as good control over the units as most good players, however even observers notice how I loose a footholding on games I should have won. Well anyways, thanks for your advice on the game it was very constructive and helpful. I hope I did not waste too much of your time. | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 21 2006 16:06 outqast wrote: So basically, his mistake was not fortifying that expansion early enough and letting you gain a foot hold. If he had taken that base earlier and turtled it, it would have prevented you from getting to that point. Hmmmm... not really the answer to my question, but I appreciate your analysis on the game. The reason why I keep bringing up the defense issue is as a zerg player I find a constant problem of mine is that I will get to the point of a game where I will be in an advantageous position economically and I own a large portion of the map. But for any zvt and zvp, the opponent will just turtle and I find myself having my population maxed and my units just going to waste on his defenses. Admittedly, I do not have as good control over the units as most good players, however even observers notice how I loose a footholding on games I should have won. Well anyways, thanks for your advice on the game it was very constructive and helpful. I hope I did not waste too much of your time. Well, hm, be gayer than him. For instance, take 5-10 lurkers, place them above ramp of empty main. Really hard to get up ;O And taking natural of empty main is useless cause can't protect cliff. Also, if you find you lose to hidden expansions (and then turtle) often, try to do 8 ling drops and place overlords everywhere If it's not hidden expo, you should be able to kill him unless you are not ahead ;> | ||
roMAD
Russia2355 Posts
| ||
Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
| ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
| ||
| ||