First of all i gota do sm bragging :D... just recently got into top 8 of my division, yea yeah i know ranking doesn't mean shit but i am super excited xD... Last time i was in top 8 was beginning of season 3 with a bunch of tQ guys (which now are half sponsored players) so i hope this is a good sign :D.
Chillin in Typhon Kappa with Incontrol
Ladder fear: Hmm... i was suffering this hugely in season 4. I didn't ladder at all till the end of the season with 350 bonus pool which then make me have to sit down 3-4 days straight to empty... annoying stuff... There is no way to cure this. Cure is different from person to person. To me its about removing the competitive mind set about sc2 when i play. To put it simply, sc2 is a VERY competitive computer game where one out smart the other. Winner feel great, loser feel bad... just like losing money after got bluffed in poker. By knowing this, i started to find way to remove competitive mind set when i play ladder games.
First, simply start with GLHF or gl every game and end with a gg. This is crucially important. Its about expressing not only the respect to your opponent but also for yourself and people who play the game. Beginning it was not so hard, typing doesn't cost that much apm really... But then if someone 6 pools you in a game at 4AM, things get harder... Eventually with PRACTICE, i controlled myself. Some tips here is avoid talking... in fact, don't talk at all (except GLHF and GG ofc)... F11 and ignore you opponent if needed. Avoiding shit talk and concentrate on the game. Often you will feel like losing units in battle is like taking punches in the face, by then just keep reminding yourself that this is just a game and on the other end is a guy who possibly feeling the same way about every of your successful attacks.
Concentrating on my force to steal nerds ladder points
Step 2 can only be done once you completely mastered step 1: Blame everything on you. If you lose a game, its your mistake. Why didnt you scout the 6 pool? why wasnt you ready for the drop? Why did you lost to 4 gates? If there are people above you who are winning games and you don't, it is your fault that you lose, not because you opponent decided to take a risk. Woojing Star didn't knee down and cry when the lost to BoxeR back in BW... they simply increased their practice schedule to humanly impossible in order to get better. As someone who was pretty much have this mentality since i was a child, i have no problem understanding the game this way but i was so surprised how people, even pro players, after losing calling their opponent 'so fucking bad'. You lost to a bad player, you must be something worse then.
Ok Step 2 sound unreal? try step 3 then: Spreading the love. When i first find out about FXOSheth, I was in doubt that this guy must be faking it... Buddha out side, evil inside, who know... But then more and more i saw his GSL run, the fact that he typed GG with a smiley face after losing to a hardcore Protoss all in just completely blown my mind... That attitude show the calmness inside a player. It is the piece that i was looking for to get closer to the pro-gamer mentality. I think without completing step 1 that i mentioned earlier, this sound not so much different from savior or naniwa probe rush but by showing love on ladder pre/post games, I no longer care about winning or losing. I could sit there taking 7 loses in a row and then resume with a 2 win streaks to end the night... All i care about is knowledge/experience i gain and mechanic improvement. There is no down side to it really... i would rather type a '<3' to end a conversation than sitting there argue/shittalk with a nerds on the other side of the globe. And guess what? doing this, both side feel great :D... Haters shall be loved, and occasionally directed to images with kittens.
Me laddering
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PvP:
It hit me so hard when i find out people dont understand what does '4 gate' mean in PvP. One does not simply make 4 gates and A move. There are several different version of gates in PvP, each come at a different timing with different unit composition, pylons locations, different probes count and different back up plan if it fail. On top of my head right now i could count at least 3 different build order for 4 gates and that is not including the brand new prism 4 gates which just hit the block on patch 1.4.0. My friend, a diamond Zerg, is now struggling with PvP when he switch to protoss simply because he cant execute a build order correctly. I can assure you everyone out there with a 50%+ w/r in PvP must have practiced their 4 gates vs AI more than 10.. ok 5 if they are some kinda RTS genius... Personally until today i still play at least 2 games vs AI per day to make sure all of my mechanic is set. If you are a none master Protoss, try to execute a 4 gate on any map really... if you dont have your 6 stalkers 1 zealot by 5:45 to 5:50, you are doing something wrong.
In PvP, there is no 'correct' build order. The definition of A counter B which often seen in others match up is completely negated. At least i know that if you play the game with that mentality, you will always be 1 step behind and never reach the top high level. PvP is an information war. If at low master you can just simply have your obs hover above the enemy's army to gain all the information you need, high level you have to fight, and earn it yourself. Information come in prices, often it could be just 1 probe, next thing you know its your zealot, stalkers, or your entire army. Aware of this matter, masters are often being really careful and collective on the method to obtain information. Some follow the tradition style with robo obs rush and be really careful with it. Others be smart... Did you know that the most common 4 gates build order will hit your ramp around 5:45? This mean that by 5:30, the 2nd stalkers is completed and should be moving out of the protoss base to join up with the 1 probe 1 stalker 1 zealot attacking group. Knowing this information, I often have a habit of saving my scouting probe, hide it and poke it in enemy base around 5:15-5:20. Lets dry run this situation shall we?
He has nothing there to kill the probe: SCOUT ALL THE THING. If needed make a pylon there to scared him for a possibility of counter attack. At this point he will have to make a very hard decision: pull back killing the pylon+probe or commit to the attack. Put yourself in his shoe, pylon in base at 5:30... hahaha
He has something to kill the probe: he is playing defensively, progress to place down fleet beacon and carriers rush... ok not quite but play as greedy as you can. He is most likely not gona attack you anytime soon and even if he attack, your sentries should have more than 1 FF by then
Probe died before got into his base... aweshit, what do i do now? Well dont worry, he is playing defensively by 'checking for probe and proxy pylon'. This is an indication of 'no offensive 4 gate'. Proceed on greedy play
This is how 'meta game' works in most mid master PvP up. Now you can stop question yourself why pro-gamer could survive 4 gates with less sentries/gates than you do.
Build Order: Traditional or innovative. There are currently 2 strong style in PvP: robo and phoenix. With the recent change in ramp that i have discussed in another blog entry, the meta game has indeed switch out of blink stalkers. Blink now must come with a robo support(obs) and is mostly used to snipe any greedy non-robo build. It is no longer 'safe' to go blink, at least not as much as robo once the immortal range is buffed. Robo turtle fest is now favored by the pros on most map that have good space between nature and main to hide your robo from blink snipe. A good example/educational video on how to learn/execute this build could be found at Artosis daily stream. Ddoro also do it occasionally but his version is not as newbie friendly as artosis. The basic idea is still to get a decent immortal count until you smell the tech switch from opponent (stalker count stop growing, twilight being chrono again after blink + templar tech), put down a support bay and pump colossi with + attacks upgrades. start being active around 6 colossi and take a 3rd base. Prepare to be behind 1 base with a better army, scout for tech switch and hit a timing -> GG. Now thats boring... Laser everywhere.. I know :-/... Want some fun/thrill? Get yourself some phoenixes.
Nothing cooler than tis
These motherfuckers are fast, lethal to probes and cool like a cucumber. In fact, if you go HERE you might noticed how i have been using these cool dudes since august, pre-patch. Also go read the PvP phoenix thread on TL, find and read Ddoro comments as well as EGAxlav coaching VODs, good stuff. I wont be talking more about this topic since its is pretty much saturated with better players knowledge. All ima tell you is a general guide line on how to counter phoenixes: trap and bait.
trap is similar to stalkers vs muta, you must let them come in and blink under them. Now the hard part is, you MUST focus fire to deal any real damage. Focus fire is a crucial crucial part in stalkers vs phoenix battle. Kill the high energy or the one that is lifting, right click on them. Better yet, A click on them dota last hitting style.
Bait: vs phoenix you want to hit a good timing: when phoenix is out of energy. At first you want to secure your mineral line to make sure you lose the minimum of probes while adding in more gate way for a timing. Once you are ready to move out, try to create open holes so that the phoenix could shove in and pick up some probes. You need to hit the moment they used up 50% of their stock energy on something that you would rather pull attack to have an all-in anyway. This means that at 1 point in the meta game, Phoenix user would actually be afraid of killing probes. Interesting eh?
=============================== PvT: My worst match up.
With the recent result of 20 PvP in a row, my PvT is completely out of practice for the terrans at my currect MMR. I am doing some cheesy newb shit strat to gain a win or 2 but thats about it.
It is really interesting to find that Blink and Charge has the same research time. So in a sense if i got Blink, i would have to go storm before charge simply taking advantage of the slow zealot covering my slow HT. However if i go charge before blink, I cant get storm quickly enough simply because my 2 bases gas income wont support me recycling HT -> archons.
Another question i often ask myself is 'what is a good sign for timing attack'? Should i expand and start +3 +3 or add in 10 gates and go all in on 2 bases with +2 +2? Keep that in mind that Terran will often be ahead in base while you have the upgrades advantage + great unit counters.
Map also a huge factor... With charge archons, i cant really find a good place for 3rd on shakuras simply due to the lack of splash damage to take the front 3rd. Mean while the side 3rd is too spreaded out and open to drop harass. It is sad how these type of questions are not often been asked and answer by players at the high level unless you are actually paying money to get coach T.T... Gona hunt down some replays later, will see.
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PvZ: New fun build order
This is a complete rip off Ddoro stream yesterday. I dont know the exact BO to the second but here is some general guide line:
Forge FE -> gate 2 gas (careful on chrono on probes)-> first 100 gas +1 while the cyber is being built, make 2 zealots with 1 chrono 100% cyber 1 sentry + warp gate. 100% sentry make 3rd zealot and put down 3 more gates (4 total) Chrono the shit outa warp gate and +1 but time them so they finish at the same time. pressure with 3 zealot to gain map control (front base, 3rd, tower etc) but mainly as a distraction to sneak a probe out making proxy pylons. Once warp finish, warp in 4 zealots near Z 3rd base and kill all the thing. Mean while at home put down 2 stargates -> 2 more gas which make 4 gases. If some case Z 3rd didnt die, double VR. Send first 2 VR out to harass Z 3rd while rally 2 to the front to defend counter attack with + cannons + sentries. Add in a robo before 2-3 phoenixes to aid the VR vs queens(should be dmg after zealots battle) Add in support bay while make prism. Use phoenix to get high ground vision for pylon warp in + prism zealot harass with VR phoenix support. At home start colossus, clear out 3rd base with sentries and expand. -> double robo.
Me on my all in train
Tried it once, supper effective... There is some hole in the build which make it weak vs Roaches counter attack but once you scout correctly and see it coming, You should be fineeeee.
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Wow the blog is long =_=... still have more stuff to write but this is too much...
And now is a bonus random video that make me look smart:
I love this blog, I've been stuck in plat for a while now. And though I feel I'm progressing as I now constantly start to face diamon players, I still feel like it's going very slow. These posts with basics are really great especially if you have trouble keeping up with all the changes and new strats like I do. Thank you 5/5
On December 25 2011 03:06 AGIANTSMURF wrote: I feel like this was a clever and well disguised attempt at putting gif's and showing off your rank on TL :0
nah, i know there are tons of people who are better... also this blog is 10 times longer than my avg english essay length =_=
As a Protoss who is just terrible at PvP, I thank you for this! Looking forward for more follow up posts in your blog. My problem is Im terrible against turtle-y players who get up a robo and hide in their base from my pressure. Makes blink plays really hard. The phoenix style is interesting but Im tentative around Stargate play as I don't have the best control and Phoenix are so fragile. My main problem is knowing when its safe to expand to my natural in PvP, I always think I have enough, expand, and then get stomped. I think this stems from two things.
1. I didn't deny scouting from obs so he knows when to push out
2. I play a bit too aggressive in the early game.
I've been favoring a build in PvP that gets my 8 stalkers before a 4gate hits as a direct counter to 4gate, however I've found that I'm doing this every game regardless of scouting info and need to break from this mould. Im basically studying as many safe PvP builds as I can because in most games If the Protoss lets me get my economy up on my Second base I can play better. I make more mistakes in the early game with very general stuff than I do i the mid-late. I just need to figure out when its safe to expand, so I don't over or under make and get behind.
On December 25 2011 06:09 GleefulPiXie wrote: As a Protoss who is just terrible at PvP, I thank you for this! Looking forward for more follow up posts in your blog. My problem is Im terrible against turtle-y players who get up a robo and hide in their base from my pressure. Makes blink plays really hard. The phoenix style is interesting but Im tentative around Stargate play as I don't have the best control and Phoenix are so fragile. My main problem is knowing when its safe to expand to my natural in PvP, I always think I have enough, expand, and then get stomped. I think this stems from two things.
1. I didn't deny scouting from obs so he knows when to push out
2. I play a bit too aggressive in the early game.
I've been favoring a build in PvP that gets my 8 stalkers before a 4gate hits as a direct counter to 4gate, however I've found that I'm doing this every game regardless of scouting info and need to break from this mould. Im basically studying as many safe PvP builds as I can because in most games If the Protoss lets me get my economy up on my Second base I can play better. I make more mistakes in the early game with very general stuff than I do i the mid-late. I just need to figure out when its safe to expand, so I don't over or under make and get behind.
few points of advice for you, some might work, some might not depend on your ladder level which result different meta game:
1/ against turtle: you are pretty much behind if you cant do damage with blink harass. I often see people scout for an open timing and all in vs colossus build. For example charge archons is really good vs anything below 5 colossus and no wall off. You can also consider the option of proxy stargates (to hide from obs) VR if the colossus count is out of control. Most of these are really risky mostly because its hard to get the scouting information on his army composition and colossi count. That is the main reason why lot of people are moving away from blink stalker time to time and rush straight to archons.
2/Phoenix: yes, phoenix build is really apm intensive. For me i actually needed to rebind 0 to ` to get 1 more army control group for this. Your phoenix need to be constantly moving to achieve the fullest effectiveness. However, Phoenix is not fragile in PvP. Unless its phoenix vs Phoenix, stalker takes a tons of shot to kill a phoenix really (notices the vs non-armored unit dmg from stalker).
3/Expanding: this is something i wanted to write about in my next blog. You want to expand the moment you smell the defensive stand. For example you just killed the 2 pylons of him trying to do the 4 gate on you. -> send probe to make nexus right away. Reason is protoss need to constantly be on a defensive stand to be safe vs proxy pylon warp in. Every time you move out of your base, it creates opening for a zealot counter attack into your mineral line. Knowing this everyone will play defensive once their initial attack plan fail which create a hole for you to expand and probe up instantly. This often end up with me 1 gate 1 stargate expand in PvP but still being safe. As i said, its not about the build order but about gathering the information on the build order the enemy do. You need to put some thought in it but once you figure it out, things will get easy.
4/ 8 stalkers counter 4 gate build: Even though it is a great build for lower league players up to low master to practice. This build has no room in the current high master GM meta game. 4 gate is almost out of the question in PvP since every one know how to defense vs it. It is a huge risk to do a 4 gate, the chance of you winning out of it in GM is less than proxy 2 gates or cannon rush most of the time. 8 Stalkers is 400 gas devoting to non-tech units which is quite a lot. Also the high stalkers count make it really awkward to transition to anything but blink stalkers. If you go robo or stargate you will always be behind in case your opponent is doing a mirror build. How to fix this? well be better with your scouting. Use the scouting technique i mentioned above to identify a 4 gate or not before it hit. You could skip the last 3 stalkers for 3 zealot and use those 150 gas in some other tech instead. Try to create yourself more room to modify things instead of sticking strictly to 1 build order until 8 minutes should be a good start. After you have mastered all the transition of the build based on scouting information, when to pressure, when to tech, when to expand, etc... move on to the next build.
Personally i have been doing the Forge Phoenix build for the past 6 months at least. It is a TERRIBLE build as you might have seen the thread got closed with bunch of negative comments. But since i know all the transition, i still win games with it even at the high master level Cheers!
Totally agree with your second point about laddering... in fact I daresay that if I didn't have the "everything is my fault" mindset I would probably be stuck in plat bitching about proxy 10/10 gate, stim pushes, and zergling counterattacks.
Related to your PvZ note - have you seen Brown vs Losira on Dual Sight (most recent GSL)? He does the +1 4 gate zealot attack that is so common nowadays, but he gets a stargate + void ray. The void ray destroys the roaches that Losira has while the zealots take down the queen/lings/drones. I think it's especially cool on maps where the third is a bit far from the natural because you can play it like zealot pressure + void ray backup, but you can change the focus a bit and play it like stargate pressure - except instead of phoenix to lift queens you have zealots to kill queens and spores.
I've heard a lot that Hero does double stargate after +1 zealot pressure, if you're interested in developing that build you could check out his vods on twitch maybe.
3/Expanding: this is something i wanted to write about in my next blog. You want to expand the moment you smell the defensive stand. For example you just killed the 2 pylons of him trying to do the 4 gate on you. -> send probe to make nexus right away. Reason is protoss need to constantly be on a defensive stand to be safe vs proxy pylon warp in. Every time you move out of your base, it creates opening for a zealot counter attack into your mineral line. Knowing this everyone will play defensive once their initial attack plan fail which create a hole for you to expand and probe up instantly. This often end up with me 1 gate 1 stargate expand in PvP but still being safe. As i said, its not about the build order but about gathering the information on the build order the enemy do. You need to put some thought in it but once you figure it out, things will get easy.
4/ 8 stalkers counter 4 gate build: Even though it is a great build for lower league players up to low master to practice. This build has no room in the current high master GM meta game. 4 gate is almost out of the question in PvP since every one know how to defense vs it. It is a huge risk to do a 4 gate, the chance of you winning out of it in GM is less than proxy 2 gates or cannon rush most of the time. 8 Stalkers is 400 gas devoting to non-tech units which is quite a lot. Also the high stalkers count make it really awkward to transition to anything but blink stalkers. If you go robo or stargate you will always be behind in case your opponent is doing a mirror build. How to fix this? well be better with your scouting. Use the scouting technique i mentioned above to identify a 4 gate or not before it hit. You could skip the last 3 stalkers for 3 zealot and use those 150 gas in some other tech instead. Try to create yourself more room to modify things instead of sticking strictly to 1 build order until 8 minutes should be a good start. After you have mastered all the transition of the build based on scouting information, when to pressure, when to tech, when to expand, etc... move on to the next build.
Im happy to hear you'll be continuing to write about this in your next blog, its good to know when I should be expanding as I do recall situations where I've killed his proxy pylon and didn't capitalize on it with an expo.
Regarding the 8 Stalker play; Im fully aware that 4gate isn't common in GM - High master game so this build isn't really needed, but I am not in GM or Masters, Im in Platinum where a 4gate is still very common, however I understand scouting chronoboost is necessary because all that gas is pretty taxing and I could be using it in other tech if he isn't 4gating.
3/Expanding: this is something i wanted to write about in my next blog. You want to expand the moment you smell the defensive stand. For example you just killed the 2 pylons of him trying to do the 4 gate on you. -> send probe to make nexus right away. Reason is protoss need to constantly be on a defensive stand to be safe vs proxy pylon warp in. Every time you move out of your base, it creates opening for a zealot counter attack into your mineral line. Knowing this everyone will play defensive once their initial attack plan fail which create a hole for you to expand and probe up instantly. This often end up with me 1 gate 1 stargate expand in PvP but still being safe. As i said, its not about the build order but about gathering the information on the build order the enemy do. You need to put some thought in it but once you figure it out, things will get easy.
4/ 8 stalkers counter 4 gate build: Even though it is a great build for lower league players up to low master to practice. This build has no room in the current high master GM meta game. 4 gate is almost out of the question in PvP since every one know how to defense vs it. It is a huge risk to do a 4 gate, the chance of you winning out of it in GM is less than proxy 2 gates or cannon rush most of the time. 8 Stalkers is 400 gas devoting to non-tech units which is quite a lot. Also the high stalkers count make it really awkward to transition to anything but blink stalkers. If you go robo or stargate you will always be behind in case your opponent is doing a mirror build. How to fix this? well be better with your scouting. Use the scouting technique i mentioned above to identify a 4 gate or not before it hit. You could skip the last 3 stalkers for 3 zealot and use those 150 gas in some other tech instead. Try to create yourself more room to modify things instead of sticking strictly to 1 build order until 8 minutes should be a good start. After you have mastered all the transition of the build based on scouting information, when to pressure, when to tech, when to expand, etc... move on to the next build.
Im happy to hear you'll be continuing to write about this in your next blog, its good to know when I should be expanding as I do recall situations where I've killed his proxy pylon and didn't capitalize on it with an expo.
Regarding the 8 Stalker play; Im fully aware that 4gate isn't common in GM - High master game so this build isn't really needed, but I am not in GM or Masters, Im in Platinum where a 4gate is still very common, however I understand scouting chronoboost is necessary because all that gas is pretty taxing and I could be using it in other tech if he isn't 4gating.
I forgot to mention it is important to think of your nexus as something 'cancel-able'. This mean that as soon as you keep your army up the ramp and have enough FF, you still can have your nexus building down ramp just fine! If there is an attack coming, you could cancel it, else you can have an expansion :D... Its the money you invest in making probes you need to worry about, not the fact that your nexus is up or not.
But those shall stay on high level theory, platinum just need to constant making probe and you will be all fine :D
But those shall stay on high level theory, platinum just need to constant making probe and you will be all fine :D
I think that mostly rings true although at this point even when I'm fully saturated and still have probes coming I can still lose in certain engagements, constant probes = win is true in most leagues up to Platinum i'd say and upwards of Plat is when composition and strategy comes in. Diamond - Plat are when strategy starts mattering more IMO just because the mechanics are getting down better and better.
Well done! 4/5. 4 because the Star Wars image + reading about Star Craft makes my mind confused and I ended up just staring at the Star Wars image lol. =P
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/lm9ng.jpg)
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