|
Apologies if there has been a similar thread recently, but I thought it's about time to discuss this again.
I've always been a big fan of the old school gamers, including Boxer, Nada, iloveoov, Nal_ra, and Reach.
More than anything, I've always thought that Nada has been the greatest player of all time. His 3 OSLs and 3 MSLs are testimony to his greatness.
But the skill level of Starcraft has increased dramatically since Nada's dominance.
Currently we see greatness in players like Bisu and Flash.
But currently, it is Jaedong that I have to admit is the greatest of all time. Sure he "only" has 2 OSLs and 1 MSL, but his consistency and his incredible ZvZ record is just ridiculous in this day and age.
For me, it is heart breaking to see Nada playing so poorly for the last 1-2 years. But my brain is telling me that Jaedong is the greatest of all time. According to TLPD, he is approaching a 70% win-loss record with over 200 wins. That's simply ridiculous, and no one even comes close to this.
Who does everyone think is the greatest of all time? I know it's hard to compare eras, but Jaedong is just an amazing player and I don't think we'll ever see the likes of him again.
In my opinion, the following players will be most likely mentioned as being "The greatest Starcraft player of all time" when history looks back at this amazing RTS game:
In no particular order:
1. Jaedong
2. Boxer
3. Nada
4. iloveoov
5. Flash
6. Bisu
7. Savior
|
i swear, this was closed for a reason. it's hard to discuss this because of the constant evolution of the game from then until now.
jaedong is good, but he wouldn't be so good without the help of the stacking muta discovery, etc, all those things. plus, maps were different. maps are geared towards macro games now. imagine back then... everyone had one base, natural was quite far away. stacking mutas with minerals.
edit: who i think is best? boxer, of course. made the game into what it is today by popularizing it.
|
|
|
You cannot compare old school players with Jaedong because the comparison isn't based on the same standards.
When Jaedong started to play, the old school players had already set a standard and all he did was break them. Players like Garimto, Boxer, Nal_ra, Nada bassically invented those standards.
|
Oh sorry, I didn't see that topic. I did do a search before I created the topic. Mods feel free to close.
|
oov. is the best. You simply can't stop an army of 500000 tanks rolling you over...
|
Flash is not the greatest player of all times even though he has potential to be
If the future of earth was decided over a game of Starcraft then Jaedong should play for earth as he is the best player ever.
Nada has been the best player through time and if the future of earth was decided in a run of 10 starcraft games over 5 years then Nada should play for earth.
A similar story is viable for Savior, iloveoov and most of all Boxer. It comes down to what you consider being the greatest accomplishment.
Myself judge success through trophy's and thus I consider Nada being the one for a while more (give Jaedong another 6 mounts)
|
oov should play for Earth, than no one would be able to stop our GODLY macro from rolling them over. Oov felt so powerful when he played. Much more than NaDa did.
|
Anyways everyone who's been at teamliquid for some time (practically every moderator) has been over this 10 times and these threads always suck
edit: to above poster; you completely missed my point. Everyone measures what greatness is differently and to me it's how much stuff you won (hence i think it's Nada). So knowing what I regard most important you cannot argue that iloveoov is a better choice for me because iloveoov was more powerful in his prime...
|
I don't think threads like these suck.
I think it's healthy to discuss who the greatest Starcraft player ever is. Up to the year 2008, I've always maintained that Nada is the greatest. But Jaedong is just being so consistent and now approaching a ridiculous 70% win-loss ratio with well over 200 wins. His ZvZ is just unheard of. It's even more powerful than iloveoov's TvZ in his prime, which is scary. Sure, iloveoov had a 27 win streak against Zerg opponents, which will probably never be matched or surpassed, but Jaedong's ZvZ is well over 80% win-loss now with nearly 100 games played. That's unheard of in this day and age.
|
Skill:
Have you ever seen a fpvod of Bisu? Yes - Then you know the answer. No - Then the answer is Bisu.
Establishment:
Who reopened peoples eyes for an entire race, creating the foundation for progaming today? Boxer ofc.
Reign:
Once upon a time when the time stood still, when there was only one player in the top, a player that was way ahead of everyone. It was the era of the Maestro of Zerg. His name is Savior.
|
On June 30 2009 19:51 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Skill:
Have you ever seen a fpvod of Bisu? Yes - Then you know the answer. No - Then the answer is Bisu.
Establishment:
Who reopened peoples eyes for an entire race, creating the foundation for progaming today? Boxer ofc.
Reign:
Once upon a time when the time stood still, when there was only one player in the top, a player that was way ahead of everyone. It was the era of the Maestro of Zerg. His name is Savior.
Sure, Bisu is incredibly skilled for sure. But I think Jaedong edges him here. There is a reason why his ZvZ is over 80% win-loss. ZvZ is arguably a match up that involves a large element of luck (perhaps the match up that has the largest element of luck), but Jaedong proves that it is possible to be completely dominant.
|
Greatest: BoxeR.
Best/Most talent for the game: Jaedong/NaDa.
|
On June 30 2009 19:43 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Anyways everyone who's been at teamliquid for some time (practically every moderator) has been over this 10 times and these threads always suck
edit: to above poster; you completely missed my point. Everyone measures what greatness is differently and to me it's how much stuff you won (hence i think it's Nada). So knowing what I regard most important you cannot argue that iloveoov is a better choice for me because iloveoov was more powerful in his prime...
Again, like with anything, it's always difficult to compare eras. But if I had to pick one player to label as "the greatest ever", I'd have to pick Jaedong.
The tennis world has recently had a big discussion at who the greatest ever is (since Federer won the French Open and completed a career Grand Slam). In my opnion, if I had to pick one player, I would pick Roger Federer. I know a lot of others would pick Rod Laver, and that is also a good choice. There isn't any right or wrong. It's just an opinion. And it makes for very interesting discussion, in my opinion.
|
Man people, I can't believe that you are forgetting oov so easily... don't you remember his millions of tanks rolling enemies over? When did you ever see that again? Never that's right. I have never witnessed a display of power as great as oov through watching starcraft. Not to mention that Oov always OWNED Nada. Nada was is only considered the best because he was a better than the average for a long time... and he won the most. But oov crushed the whole opposition whne he played...
|
On June 30 2009 19:53 ssj114 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:51 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Skill:
Have you ever seen a fpvod of Bisu? Yes - Then you know the answer. No - Then the answer is Bisu.
Establishment:
Who reopened peoples eyes for an entire race, creating the foundation for progaming today? Boxer ofc.
Reign:
Once upon a time when the time stood still, when there was only one player in the top, a player that was way ahead of everyone. It was the era of the Maestro of Zerg. His name is Savior. Sure, Bisu is incredibly skilled for sure. But I think Jaedong edges him here. There is a reason why his ZvZ is over 80% win-loss. ZvZ is arguably a match up that involves a large element of luck (perhaps the match up that has the largest element of luck), but Jaedong proves that it is possible to be completely dominant.
Yes Jaedong is a great contestant to be in my top 3 all time but there is something missing... he is this player who is incredibly good, able to kill off anyone in a boX and is known for practising a ton and is showing great results in live games as well. So what is missing then? Well he has won a lot of tournaments, helping his very own Hwaseung OZ team in leagues as well. But yet he has not marked himself in the history of starcraft in the way Savior, Bisu and Boxer has. Savior ruled the world of progaming for a very long time. Boxer is just boxer, we all know what he has done. Bisu stopped Saviors era, rewamped the PvZ play of today and has won leagues since then - still remains one of the best players of starcraft. That is why he trumps Jaedong IMO.
|
On June 30 2009 20:01 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:53 ssj114 wrote:On June 30 2009 19:51 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Skill:
Have you ever seen a fpvod of Bisu? Yes - Then you know the answer. No - Then the answer is Bisu.
Establishment:
Who reopened peoples eyes for an entire race, creating the foundation for progaming today? Boxer ofc.
Reign:
Once upon a time when the time stood still, when there was only one player in the top, a player that was way ahead of everyone. It was the era of the Maestro of Zerg. His name is Savior. Sure, Bisu is incredibly skilled for sure. But I think Jaedong edges him here. There is a reason why his ZvZ is over 80% win-loss. ZvZ is arguably a match up that involves a large element of luck (perhaps the match up that has the largest element of luck), but Jaedong proves that it is possible to be completely dominant. Yes Jaedong is a great contestant to be in my top 3 all time but there is something missing... he is this player who is incredibly good, able to kill off anyone in a boX and is known for practising a ton and is showing great results in live games as well. So what is missing then? Well he has won a lot of tournaments, helping his very own Hwaseung OZ team in leagues as well. But yet he has not marked himself in the history of starcraft in the way Savior, Bisu and Boxer has. Savior ruled the world of progaming for a very long time. Boxer is just boxer, we all know what he has done. Bisu stopped Saviors era, rewamped the PvZ play of today and has won leagues since then - still remains one of the best players of starcraft. That is why he trumps Jaedong IMO.
again you are forgetting oov...
|
On June 30 2009 19:59 verzisor wrote:
Man people, I can't believe that you are forgetting oov so easily... don't you remember his millions of tanks rolling enemies over? When did you ever see that again? Never that's right. I have never witnessed a display of power as great as oov through watching starcraft. Not to mention that Oov always OWNED Nada. Nada was is only considered the best because he was a better than the average for a long time... and he won the most. But oov crushed the whole opposition whne he played...
Sure, your opinion is that iloveoov is the greatest, and you give some interesting justification.
I completely agree with you that iloveoov was just incredible in his prime. I always supported him, except when he played against Nada. It was always a little painful every time he beat Nada, but I still appreciated his greatness.
I like my statistics. Roger Federer (tennis player) has three amazing statistics, in my opinion:
1. 20 consecutive Grand Slam Semi-finals (and counting...he's one win away from a 21st) - this record will never be matched or surpassed in my opinion
2. 237 consecutive weeks as world number 1 - again, this will never be beaten
3. 5 consecutive Wimbledon titles and 5 consecutive US Open titles - again, this will never be beaten.
Jaedong's amazing statistic is his career win-loss ratio of nearly 70% (with well over 200 wins) and over 80% win-loss in ZvZ (with nearly a total of 100 games played). And it seems like he is only getting stronger and stronger. It's just amazing stuff.
|
On June 30 2009 20:01 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:53 ssj114 wrote:On June 30 2009 19:51 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Skill:
Have you ever seen a fpvod of Bisu? Yes - Then you know the answer. No - Then the answer is Bisu.
Establishment:
Who reopened peoples eyes for an entire race, creating the foundation for progaming today? Boxer ofc.
Reign:
Once upon a time when the time stood still, when there was only one player in the top, a player that was way ahead of everyone. It was the era of the Maestro of Zerg. His name is Savior. Sure, Bisu is incredibly skilled for sure. But I think Jaedong edges him here. There is a reason why his ZvZ is over 80% win-loss. ZvZ is arguably a match up that involves a large element of luck (perhaps the match up that has the largest element of luck), but Jaedong proves that it is possible to be completely dominant. Yes Jaedong is a great contestant to be in my top 3 all time but there is something missing... he is this player who is incredibly good, able to kill off anyone in a boX and is known for practising a ton and is showing great results in live games as well. So what is missing then? Well he has won a lot of tournaments, helping his very own Hwaseung OZ team in leagues as well. But yet he has not marked himself in the history of starcraft in the way Savior, Bisu and Boxer has. Savior ruled the world of progaming for a very long time. Boxer is just boxer, we all know what he has done. Bisu stopped Saviors era, rewamped the PvZ play of today and has won leagues since then - still remains one of the best players of starcraft. That is why he trumps Jaedong IMO.
Very interesting post there. I have to admit you are right to an extent, and have a very valid justification for your opinion.
Bisu still has a chance to show to me that he is the greatest ever. He basically needs to step up his career win-loss ratio (it's sitting pretty at around 64%, but no where near Jaedong's) and perhaps win a couple more Star leagues. Until then, Jaedong is the greatest for me.
|
On June 30 2009 19:53 ssj114 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2009 19:51 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Skill:
Have you ever seen a fpvod of Bisu? Yes - Then you know the answer. No - Then the answer is Bisu.
Establishment:
Who reopened peoples eyes for an entire race, creating the foundation for progaming today? Boxer ofc.
Reign:
Once upon a time when the time stood still, when there was only one player in the top, a player that was way ahead of everyone. It was the era of the Maestro of Zerg. His name is Savior. Sure, Bisu is incredibly skilled for sure. But I think Jaedong edges him here. There is a reason why his ZvZ is over 80% win-loss. ZvZ is arguably a match up that involves a large element of luck (perhaps the match up that has the largest element of luck), but Jaedong proves that it is possible to be completely dominant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
