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PLEASE READ THE ITALICIZED, BOLDED, AND UNDERLINED POST IN THE "I CREATED THIS THREAD TO..." PART OF THIS THREAD BEFORE POSTING PLEASE TYTYTY.
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I created this thread to...
What i aim to do is create and/or find, a build that fits around my strengths and weaknesses, that involves super incedibly low economy early game harass, and endless harass even to lategame..
lategame i harass with storm drops and recalls... i use dt's and the threat of harass to passivly macro and defend my exansions... since my early game micro is good up untill there's too many things to multitask i will only attack directly at those times...after early game ill use my harass and expanding to build up repeated 1 punch maxed out 200/200 attacks because my micro isn't that good. while my micro is good my positioning is ok, so flanking isn't a problem in matchups such as pvt for example. please note i might not have many replays of my own to give you guys, im only probably going to discuss things till im conforable i have a build to use in each matchup.
Let me start by saying that i've been playing around with starcraft since early 2001. When PGT 1st started i quickly went from D rank to B rank in the 1st 2 seasons. I played PGT untill roughly 4 seasons
before it got hacked and probably completely quit SC when PGT went down. I've started playing starcraft again in 2007 but i solely played UMS games untill midway through 2008. I've been playing Fastest
Possible Money maps untill about 1 week ago and I want to start playing Regular maps on a regular basis and reach my goal of B rank again. I've already realized that Strategies from when i played till now
have changed dramatically, and nearly everyone and thier grandma has decent mechanics now... i still think i can achieve B or even A rank again. When i used to play i was a Zerg Player and i used (for
example) 100% lurker openings in ZvT and hydra openings in ZvZ. Yes i went up to B rank doing these openings that are today considered unviable. while i tried to make an attempt to conform to the modern
Zerg strategy, and training my mutalisk micro... i failed to get good at doing that and deceided to give a shot at my old builds. those failed to get me anywhere's and even with hours and hours of practice that
could get me to C rank, i have decided i enjoy playing protoss more. So i've chosen to play the race thats Enjoyable for me. So far i have noticed:
My strengths/weaknesses and/or style with Protoss
- Heavy Harass, Low-Economy early game.
- Im great at using my reaver to Threaten Terran players from expanding, while expanding, without losing my reaver. however im bad at dashing in and killing probes when there's defence.
- Im great when i get my scout in and have an idea what to adapt to, but im bad at actual scouting and when to scout. my probes ususally always die so far my wost matchup is PvP
- I already stated i was Bad at pvp, and i was great at PvT, however i think this is just a D rank thing that i need to overcome.
- In All matchups im really good at small skirmishes and im really good at harass but im bad at large macro wars and direct attacking to end the game when the situation calls for it.
- err... im running out of things to talk about so ill end this with the next bullet
- To sum it up: my macro is decent but i can't multiask my macro during a large skirmish. small skirmishes i micro well in but larger skirmishes i normall just watch and stare... im good at storm drops with 2
shuttles (1 is a decoy) and i usually always get the probes. i usually do a storm drop every minute or so. im good with reavers/dt's/other units in using them to delay pushes and expaning, but im bad at the actual
micro of droping a reaver, shooting something, and picking it up.
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My Ideas & Questions
Help will be aprecciated  a build order would be nice, a replay nicer, a fpvod even nicer yet. a good description and timing for my 3rd/temp drops would be the nicest of them all :D :D
MY PvT Ideas/Questions
In PvT im looking for a build that invloves the fastest humanly possible reaver and 2 zealots thats not too risky to an early rush. (ill use the reaver for defence in most rushes probably, and then go harass) im
looking to harass as early as possible to play on my strengths, i hope to force many turrets and turtling while i do this. after my 1st reaver, and 2 zealots are done my next tech goal is a templar archives. ill use
the dt's to expand with and use the dt's and reaver to kill pushes untill i have goons to defend my expo. i might dt drop his main if i can find a hole. im wondering when a good time to add speed would be
because i play on using shuttle play the ENTIRE game. later in the game ill use a decoy shuttle to draw 1st turret fire and a real shuttle with 1-2 zealots and 1-2 temps to storm drop his scv line. i plan on
making constant shuttles and templar throughout the game but i dont know the timings for: Speed, Psi Storm, and whens a good timing that i can afford a 2nd robo for shuttles?
when should i be adding a 3rd without delaying my harass, unless my 3rd helps with faster storm dropping ^^.
My PvZ Ideas/Questions
Well according to my strengths i should 2 gate every game, so i can abuse the zergs economy (even without killing anything) then i should go to archives and forge and counter his tech if i can. after my
expansion what should i be doing that can mimic my post in PvT but without getting my storm drops snipped by scourge? and my 3rd would be a gas, and wouldn't be as fast as like in pvt obviosly.
My PvP Ideas/Questions
I have no idea how to PvP but if you read my strengths weaknesses and my PvT post, you should know how i WANT to play, so any way i can do that without losing every game would be nice.
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Other Posts I find interesting & Usefull
I will be reading & updating OP with good comments and replies about every day.
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Replays & Examples
I have no replays or good examples at this time. as soon as i find, or others give me some, i will update OP.
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i hope this thread can stir up interesting discussion on protoss harassing techniques and general protoss build orders/play styles focused on harassing.
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i can't figure out whats wrong with my post... the code wont let me center some things...
nvm i found the errors.
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i used my other account to post cuz i couldn't wait for the 10 day rule to make a topic. this is my main account and ill be reply'ing with this name just thought everyone should know.
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I know you took a long time to write this post but i got to tell you tl is not your personal strat forum. When something comes up and you really cant find how to solve it after trying to fix it by yourself: watching vods/reps, reading strat guides then ask. You dont just go in asking for everyone to do things for you.
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On January 19 2009 14:37 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I know you took a long time to write this post but i got to tell you tl is not your personal strat forum. When something comes up and you really cant find how to solve it after trying to fix it by yourself: watching vods/reps, reading strat guides then ask. You dont just go in asking for everyone to do things for you.
welli did a TL search for protoss harass andi even did google tlnet search and couldn't find any good articles. and yes obviously im not trying to make this inot my own personal forum. im sorry your got that from my post.
edit: i dont want to go 5-50 making a build and even then a bad build before 1st trying to get good build orders and advice, and THEN going onto iccup and practice. after i practice ill surely be back and add replays for even more discussion.
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You dont need to make a build. You're not at the level yet. First practice/copy the most commonly used builds for each mu. Properly executing solid safe builds alone will allow you to win some games. Before you even start harassing the shit out of your opponent you should practice your build and your macro first. No use harassing when your mineral skyrockets to like 3 k.
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On January 19 2009 14:44 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
You dont need to make a build. First practice the most commonly used builds for each mu. Before you even start harassing the shit out of your opponent you should practice your build and your macro first. No use harassing when your mineral skyrockets to like 3 k.
i dont want to create a seperate thread or post in this thread replays of my current protoss build, and i am 20-18 on iccup and im ready to move onto the next level which i described clearly in my posts. im not going to post a replay cuz that seems pointless to me becuase it has nothing to do with making a newer build.
Edit: P.S. if you go onto iccup just to check my record i reset it about 4 days ago when i decided to start making a new build. my current stats are bad because im having problems with new timings and build orders. hence this topic.
edit2: i think my play style reflects the few weeks i played money maps, however its perfectly acceptable play style for regular maps as well if you read OP, where i explained the style. its actually possible the strongest style or one of them but because of it its also hardest to execute.
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2 gating PvZ is a pain and im going to recommend you dont do it. If your opponent 12 hatches he can get lings on either side of his ramp and you wont be able to do much damage, except maybe force him to use up larvae but you will still be an expo down when the fighting is over.
If they 9 pool it can be another story, but against 12 hatch 2gating is a bitch. Im going to suggest 4 gate 2 archon build.
And I think for PvT your build would be
pylon
gate
gas
zealot
core
zealot
goon
robo
bay
reaver.
Zealots wall ramp and then load them when you go to harrass, and start range + expo while harrassing. Not 100% percent sure on that though.
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By the sound of your posts I think you should start looking at VODs of jangbi playing PvT or all his matchups for that matter, hes the only one playing anything remotely resembling what you describe atleast for PvT and have a gameplan around lots of harass.
About the PvT build you have in your mind, I have no idea how you expect to work tho, reaverdrop into DTs from 1base while taking a slow expo yourself sounds extremely gasheavy and bound to set your macro way behind unless you do some serious amounts of damage with your harass. Then making dual shuttles for DT drops and dual robo ect, yeah maybe you get a good drop of at the cost of 1\2 shuttles and 2zeals2templars, but what do you intend to defend with once the T decides to roll out if he does a regular 5-6fact push? Sure harass non-stop sounds nice on paper, but relying your entire game around it is limiting yourself especially since PvT is such a macroheavy matchup. Good harass aint gonna help you once that terran ball come knocking at your front door and you have no army.
Playing more macro oriented while trying to do some harass is the way to go, you can still do some harass with 1 robo and without spamming up 5+ shuttles a game and fucking your eco totally.
As for PvZ you can still play a heavy harass style after opening up with a FE, like sair\dts into stormdrops ect.
PvP I dont really play so have no clue.
In All matchups im really good at small skirmishes and im really good at harass but im bad at large macro wars and direct attacking to end the game when the situation calls for it.
As you get higher in ranks the reality is that alot of games turns into large macrowars once people gets good at defending and have better builds\executions ect.
To sum it up: my macro is decent but i can't multiask my macro during a large skirmish. small skirmishes i micro well in but larger skirmishes i normall just watch and stare
If you have plans of improving thats just something you have to quit and learn how to multitask.
i still think i can achieve B or even A rank again
You have confidence, but I wouldnt hold my breath if I was you. The skill level at B from PGT to today's B or even worse A at Iccup that you suggested are light years between each other. The fact that only a handful of foreigners are true A- players tells alot about that.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
There's absolutely no way you can figure what works and what doesn't until you test it. One could give you a "build of choice" geared towards your expected playstyle, but I'm afraid it will be useless to you.
Every second of StarCraft play is a consequence of the decisions made beforehand. Every serious build is geared towards:
1) At every given moment of time have some information about enemy in your disposal.
2) Based on that information you adapt your build to deal with the strengths of every possible branch of development your enemy could take, not a perfect counter to everything, but you must be able to at least do something to respond to whatever he does.
3) Based on the same information you adapt your build to hit into your enemy's temporary weakness regardless of the branch he takes. (This needs some elaboration. You get some scouting info and you know that he has 1 command center, 3 tanks, 2 factories, N of Something etc..., based on that information he must have a weakness you can abuse regardless of what he does in some temporal window of opportunity that has a finite size)
4) As soon as the branching is too much for the mind to handle, renew scouting information.
Now, "common" builds are a very very simplified version of this. They assume that for some time there's really not too many opportunities for both players to take and both players can play without true adaptation. Build branching, instead of a continious process (because a zealot and a zealot two seconds late are in a strict sense different builds), becomes a discrete process with a few focal points. This approach is perfect for beginners, since they are unable to hold even the most generic possibilites in mind, they don't know when and how to scout (because the "renew scouting information" stage is somewhat decieving - to get new scouting information at some time t, you need to plan it beforehand at least delta_t time before, where delta_t is the time required to actually do the scouting, and you also have to factor in some risk) and they do well with generic builds where all they have to do is execute some kind of a program and do a minimal amount of scouting to see what kind of program is being executed by their enemy.
But that approach has it's drawbacks. For once, even though one is executing a protocol, another one might not be, which will lead to false assumptions. A perfect example is the "panic comsat" - it's an unexpected move by (usually) novice terran players that completely cripples carefully planned DT builds. Basically, for a terran player that executes a generic build a comsat usually comes (since builds are made with economics in mind, mimicking progamers) quite late. Wonderful DT vs late comsat plays is something we see all the time in leagues. But it comes to a completely stupid situation if the terran player has irrationally (from a "generic build order" point of view) build a very early comsat station. Even though generic builds are made with handling everything in mind, they are imperfect. You will be a much better player if you stay away from them and just try everything. Yes, it leads to humiliating and funny losses. Yes, it is frustrating. But it is the only way in the universe to learn the StarCraft decision tree. This is the only way to understand what actually lies behind those builds. It's the endless anticipation. From a newbie's point of view, a 14 nexus is vulnerable to 9 pool and a newbie thinks of everything as a luck roll. An advanced player thinks "FE" and that involves a huge stream of decisions made based on the expected zerg build. It's amazing how many specific early game builds are out there (for instance, try to differentiate the branching of 12, 13 and 14 nexus - they are completely different builds with different purposes, even though the starting point varies by a very slight margin) and without trying, you won't know 5% of them.
Why am I telling you this? What you're asking for is a recipe for "generic aggressive play" on a "generic map". Aggressive play is cutting-edge, there is no generic build for it. Everything is situational and your "fastest reasonably safe reaver + 2 zealots" will be completely different depending on the map and start positions and on some maps even not viable at all. Harass is a playstyle, you can't have a build for a playstyle.
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LOL From zerg to protoss.
I have lost all faith for you my lost child. You were embraced by the swam- but now.
Now you turn to them.
MANDATORY: 1a2a3a
But seriously:
Maniac- I am not trying to be condescending or anything, however i have a few comments and some advice to give you.
I have watched a few of your games, and i have to say that while your ideas are good on paper, you physically cannot execute them at this stage. Know i NOW that you will get there- but your not there yet. your apm is not high enough, your micro and macro still needs work. A few days ago you were talking about how you like to play zerg, and go 2 hatch or something. Now i see this? Why are you switching races? If you would spend less time typing up 140814 word questionnaires and instead put your energy into playing, your improvements would be much faster. You state that you have played zerg at a high level, and spent plenty of time playing with them. I think that it is unwise to switch to protoss.
Also don't try and say that you gave zerg a chance. You didn't at all. I read your thread, you requested 2 hatch lurker builds and that was all. You seemed exited, however now you have completely switched gears in under a week. Why? playing protoss your going to have to start from scratch again, except this time it will be worse.
On January 19 2009 14:09 Pyro]v[aniac wrote:My strengths/weaknesses and/or style with Protoss- Heavy Harass, Low-Economy early game.
- Im great at using my reaver to Threaten Terran players from expanding, while expanding, without losing my reaver. however im bad at dashing in and killing probes when there's defence.
- Im great when i get my scout in and have an idea what to adapt to, but im bad at actual scouting and when to scout. my probes ususally always die so far my wost matchup is PvP
- I already stated i was Bad at pvp, and i was great at PvT, however i think this is just a D rank thing that i need to overcome.
- In All matchups im really good at small skirmishes and im really good at harass but im bad at large macro wars and direct attacking to end the game when the situation calls for it.
- err... im running out of things to talk about so ill end this with the next bullet
- To sum it up: my macro is decent but i can't multiask my macro during a large skirmish. small skirmishes i micro well in but larger skirmishes i normall just watch and stare... im good at storm drops with 2
shuttles (1 is a decoy) and i usually always get the probes. i usually do a storm drop every minute or so. im good with reavers/dt's/other units in using them to delay pushes and expaning, but im bad at the actual
micro of droping a reaver, shooting something, and picking it up.
Ok about your strengths and weakness list:
Basically all I am going to say is that you end up contradicting yourself alot in your list. Trying to go reaver sair is a bad choice for any beginner player because of the INTENSE MUTITASK you are going to need for it to be effective.
Basically my advice to you:
1. Stop wasting time posting this kind of stuff. Right now it is not what you need.
2. Accept the fact that while you once played SC at a high level, now everything is wayyyyyy different. Your are going to need to learn everything from the ground up.
3. Mass game. Before you can do anything you are talking about above on paper you need to improve your mechanics. I believe that i have told you this on multiple occasions now.
When you begin to mass game, and play some BASIC PROTOSS STRATEGY i am sure that you will improve. Right now you are setting yourself up to fail. You are trying very micro intensive builds, and frankly right now you just don't have the apm, mechanics and game sense to pull off some of the things you describe in your italics.
If you decide to stay with protoss then i wish you the best of luck. Protoss is far outside the range of my experience, so i cannot help you in that respect. What i am trying to help you with is more of a general sense.
Basically TL;DR
-Switching to protoss because you don't like zerg after only 1 week is not the best idea
-Your mechanics need work, and your apm needs work if you hope to pull of some of the strats i am reading.
-You are just not ready yet, for low econ heavy micro games- switching to a macro 200/200 hanbang kind of thing or whatever you are attempting to do
-Work your base first. This means MACRO!!!!!!!! Don't worry about cute shit that you can do in game. Go for basics. Play basic (for now: this means standard builds) don't get caught up with all of these cool strats you see B or A players pulling off.
-I wish you the best, and practice hard. Hope you can make it to B or A or whatever
-Play standard vs ZTP don't do cute shit. *yet*
Doing the above will help you improve the fastest. I promise. I worked for me lol
GG
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 19 2009 17:33 BluzMan wrote:
There's absolutely no way you can figure what works and what doesn't until you test it. One could give you a "build of choice" geared towards your expected playstyle, but I'm afraid it will be useless to you.
Every second of StarCraft play is a consequence of the decisions made beforehand. Every serious build is geared towards:
1) At every given moment of time have some information about enemy in your disposal.
2) Based on that information you adapt your build to deal with the strengths of every possible branch of development your enemy could take, not a perfect counter to everything, but you must be able to at least do something to respond to whatever he does.
3) Based on the same information you adapt your build to hit into your enemy's temporary weakness regardless of the branch he takes. (This needs some elaboration. You get some scouting info and you know that he has 1 command center, 3 tanks, 2 factories, N of Something etc..., based on that information he must have a weakness you can abuse regardless of what he does in some temporal window of opportunity that has a finite size)
4) As soon as the branching is too much for the mind to handle, renew scouting information.
Now, "common" builds are a very very simplified version of this. They assume that for some time there's really not too many opportunities for both players to take and both players can play without true adaptation. Build branching, instead of a continious process (because a zealot and a zealot two seconds late are in a strict sense different builds), becomes a discrete process with a few focal points. This approach is perfect for beginners, since they are unable to hold even the most generic possibilites in mind, they don't know when and how to scout (because the "renew scouting information" stage is somewhat decieving - to get new scouting information at some time t, you need to plan it beforehand at least delta_t time before, where delta_t is the time required to actually do the scouting, and you also have to factor in some risk) and they do well with generic builds where all they have to do is execute some kind of a program and do a minimal amount of scouting to see what kind of program is being executed by their enemy.
But that approach has it's drawbacks. For once, even though one is executing a protocol, another one might not be, which will lead to false assumptions. A perfect example is the "panic comsat" - it's an unexpected move by (usually) novice terran players that completely cripples carefully planned DT builds. Basically, for a terran player that executes a generic build a comsat usually comes (since builds are made with economics in mind, mimicking progamers) quite late. Wonderful DT vs late comsat plays is something we see all the time in leagues. But it comes to a completely stupid situation if the terran player has irrationally (from a "generic build order" point of view) build a very early comsat station. Even though generic builds are made with handling everything in mind, they are imperfect. You will be a much better player if you stay away from them and just try everything. Yes, it leads to humiliating and funny losses. Yes, it is frustrating. But it is the only way in the universe to learn the StarCraft decision tree. This is the only way to understand what actually lies behind those builds. It's the endless anticipation. From a newbie's point of view, a 14 nexus is vulnerable to 9 pool and a newbie thinks of everything as a luck roll. An advanced player thinks "FE" and that involves a huge stream of decisions made based on the expected zerg build. It's amazing how many specific early game builds are out there (for instance, try to differentiate the branching of 12, 13 and 14 nexus - they are completely different builds with different purposes, even though the starting point varies by a very slight margin) and without trying, you won't know 5% of them.
Why am I telling you this? What you're asking for is a recipe for "generic aggressive play" on a "generic map". Aggressive play is cutting-edge, there is no generic build for it. Everything is situational and your "fastest reasonably safe reaver + 2 zealots" will be completely different depending on the map and start positions and on some maps even not viable at all. Harass is a playstyle, you can't have a build for a playstyle.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 19 2009 18:09 Misrah wrote:LOL From zerg to protoss. I have lost all faith for you my lost child. You were embraced by the swam- but now. Now you turn to them. MANDATORY: 1a2a3a But seriously: Maniac- I am not trying to be condescending or anything, however i have a few comments and some advice to give you. I have watched a few of your games, and i have to say that while your ideas are good on paper, you physically cannot execute them at this stage. Know i NOW that you will get there- but your not there yet. your apm is not high enough, your micro and macro still needs work. A few days ago you were talking about how you like to play zerg, and go 2 hatch or something. Now i see this? Why are you switching races? If you would spend less time typing up 140814 word questionnaires and instead put your energy into playing, your improvements would be much faster. You state that you have played zerg at a high level, and spent plenty of time playing with them. I think that it is unwise to switch to protoss. Also don't try and say that you gave zerg a chance. You didn't at all. I read your thread, you requested 2 hatch lurker builds and that was all. You seemed exited, however now you have completely switched gears in under a week. Why? playing protoss your going to have to start from scratch again, except this time it will be worse. Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 14:09 Pyro]v[aniac wrote:My strengths/weaknesses and/or style with Protoss- Heavy Harass, Low-Economy early game.
- Im great at using my reaver to Threaten Terran players from expanding, while expanding, without losing my reaver. however im bad at dashing in and killing probes when there's defence.
- Im great when i get my scout in and have an idea what to adapt to, but im bad at actual scouting and when to scout. my probes ususally always die so far my wost matchup is PvP
- I already stated i was Bad at pvp, and i was great at PvT, however i think this is just a D rank thing that i need to overcome.
- In All matchups im really good at small skirmishes and im really good at harass but im bad at large macro wars and direct attacking to end the game when the situation calls for it.
- err... im running out of things to talk about so ill end this with the next bullet
- To sum it up: my macro is decent but i can't multiask my macro during a large skirmish. small skirmishes i micro well in but larger skirmishes i normall just watch and stare... im good at storm drops with 2
shuttles (1 is a decoy) and i usually always get the probes. i usually do a storm drop every minute or so. im good with reavers/dt's/other units in using them to delay pushes and expaning, but im bad at the actual
micro of droping a reaver, shooting something, and picking it up.
Ok about your strengths and weakness list: Basically all I am going to say is that you end up contradicting yourself alot in your list. Trying to go reaver sair is a bad choice for any beginner player because of the INTENSE MUTITASK you are going to need for it to be effective. Basically my advice to you: 1. Stop wasting time posting this kind of stuff. Right now it is not what you need. 2. Accept the fact that while you once played SC at a high level, now everything is wayyyyyy different. Your are going to need to learn everything from the ground up. 3. Mass game. Before you can do anything you are talking about above on paper you need to improve your mechanics. I believe that i have told you this on multiple occasions now. When you begin to mass game, and play some BASIC PROTOSS STRATEGY i am sure that you will improve. Right now you are setting yourself up to fail. You are trying very micro intensive builds, and frankly right now you just don't have the apm, mechanics and game sense to pull off some of the things you describe in your italics. If you decide to stay with protoss then i wish you the best of luck. Protoss is far outside the range of my experience, so i cannot help you in that respect. What i am trying to help you with is more of a general sense. Basically TL;DR -Switching to protoss because you don't like zerg after only 1 week is not the best idea -Your mechanics need work, and your apm needs work if you hope to pull of some of the strats i am reading. -You are just not ready yet, for low econ heavy micro games- switching to a macro 200/200 hanbang kind of thing or whatever you are attempting to do -Work your base first. This means MACRO!!!!!!!! Don't worry about cute shit that you can do in game. Go for basics. Play basic (for now: this means standard builds) don't get caught up with all of these cool strats you see B or A players pulling off. -I wish you the best, and practice hard. Hope you can make it to B or A or whatever -Play standard vs ZTP don't do cute shit. *yet* Doing the above will help you improve the fastest. I promise. I worked for me lol GG
i loved these 2 posts
what i hope to accomplish with the agressive builds i mentioned are 2 fold
1) raise my APM and mechianics forcefully because the builds are so APM intensive. i usually play faster when i have to play faster so im forcing myself to play faster if that makes sense. an exampl would be when i testest terran out for a week... my apm was nearly 300 for terran and its berely 100 for protoss... im the kind of player that does things when he's forced to but if not doesn't do them at all.
2) i like the build in the same way i like lurker builds when i was using zerg, but i couldn't get enough help and people kept shutting me down and forcing me to play mutalisks when i didn't want to, so i gave up. i also gave up because i seem to enjoy each game a little more with protoss for some reason.
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@ OP
A replay is required for anyone to evaluate your level of play. When you say you are good at harrasing this is according to who? yourself, maybe you really aren't good at what you say. Asking for a build order that fits your play style is way too much of a generic question to answer without details of your play.
If build orders are what you are searching for use the search function, I just tried it myself and it came up with alot of different build orders for protoss in all different match ups. It sounds like you are looking for a golden build order that will help you reach your goal of A or B, and I can tell you now with utmost certainty there is no build order that will help you get to that level. Maybe a strong build order will get you passed the D rank but that's about it.
The game has changed alot since the days of PGT and it sounds like you need to re learn how the game is played today instead of learning a build order for each race. 3-4 years ago perhaps you could get away with having amazing micro and mediocre macro but try that today and good players will just over run you with larger armies.
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At your level, "playing to your strengths" will really do more to hurt you than help you. The most important thing is to improve in mechanics, and this can only be achieved by mass-gaming. Making up your own cute little BOs might grant you wins, but you really won't be able to get past C level this way. Just pick a build for each matchup, and start playing.
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what does TL;DR mean? i have seen it numerous times
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On January 20 2009 05:58 DalfiusWL wrote:
what does TL;DR mean? i have seen it numerous times
Too long; didn't read.
And to the OP, as Daniel lee direct you work on your weaknesses, don't rely on your strengths to get better.
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Dude 300 apm for terran? and 100 for protoss? I just looked at two of your replays from last week, when you were playing zerg- and your mean APM was 59. So what are you talking about?
You were never helped with lurker openings because they are difficult to use, and only the best zergs can get ahead while using this type of build. Muta are almost always superior. That is why people were not giving you any advice. They are trying to help you. They have more experience than you do, yet you just ignore their comments.
Listen, i think that you have a slightly too optimistic view of your game play atm. Now i am in now way saying that you cannot improve, but right now with your 59apm, you have a long way to go as far as mechanics are concerned.
You are concerning yourself with things that at this time will do you no good.
Listen closely, this will be that last bit of advice that i am going to be willing to give you.
You need to stop building yourself up. While you were once good at starcraft, all of your skill is now gone. You are starting from scratch. Except this fact. Also except the fact that you have NO current experience, NO game sense, and NO mechanics. Heed the advice of the many experienced starcraft players that are trying to help you. You must realize that starcraft is a difficult game, and while it is romantic to think that you can immediately begin playing and come up with a "style" or "new idea" it is just not going to happen. Trust me. I have tried it. Zerg on coke build lol. You need to stop talking, get humble and start listening to all the advice people are giving you. The sooner you can drop your hubris the better, and faster you will improve.
I know that you have the potential to be good at starcraft. Your ideas are good- but before you can begin practicing them, you need to listen to more experienced players, and WORK ON YOUR BASICS. Take their advice, and i know that you will be well on your way to B rank. I wish you good luck, and i hope that you will have succeeded in your goal.
GL
HF
GG
Best Regards
~Ben
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On January 20 2009 06:47 Misrah wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Dude 300 apm for terran? and 100 for protoss? I just looked at two of your replays from last week, when you were playing zerg- and your mean APM was 59. So what are you talking about?
You were never helped with lurker openings because they are difficult to use, and only the best zergs can get ahead while using this type of build. Muta are almost always superior. That is why people were not giving you any advice. They are trying to help you. They have more experience than you do, yet you just ignore their comments.
Listen, i think that you have a slightly too optimistic view of your game play atm. Now i am in now way saying that you cannot improve, but right now with your 59apm, you have a long way to go as far as mechanics are concerned.
You are concerning yourself with things that at this time will do you no good.
Listen closely, this will be that last bit of advice that i am going to be willing to give you.
You need to stop building yourself up. While you were once good at starcraft, all of your skill is now gone. You are starting from scratch. Except this fact. Also except the fact that you have NO current experience, NO game sense, and NO mechanics. Heed the advice of the many experienced starcraft players that are trying to help you. You must realize that starcraft is a difficult game, and while it is romantic to think that you can immediately begin playing and come up with a "style" or "new idea" it is just not going to happen. Trust me. I have tried it. Zerg on coke build lol. You need to stop talking, get humble and start listening to all the advice people are giving you. The sooner you can drop your hubris the better, and faster you will improve.
I know that you have the potential to be good at starcraft. Your ideas are good- but before you can begin practicing them, you need to listen to more experienced players, and WORK ON YOUR BASICS. Take their advice, and i know that you will be well on your way to B rank. I wish you good luck, and i hope that you will have succeeded in your goal.
GL
HF
GG
Best Regards
~Ben
P.S. has anybody accepted the fact that im theory crafting in this thread, unlike my other thread. i even put an [I] in the thread title and i just merly want to work/test and see/find if there's ways to play with this style in mind. ppl aren't even making an attempt though... the best post i've had was to watch jangbi PvT which for some reason slipped my mind and now im doing this (i knew of jangbi before but forgot about him)
P.P.S i had 300 terran apm, 200 zerg apm and 100ish protoss apm when i used to play PGT. NOT RIGHT NOW BUT WHEN I USED TO PLAY. im sorry i forgot to mention this. but i konw it probably be true again if i played each race like i used to. (playing random ususally every game, and playing zerg when i couldn't convince them to let me random)
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EPT
