[BWM]Map Testing Tourneys

Morrow[MB]
hello

Nightmarjoo
hey

Nightmarjoo
alrighty then

Nightmarjoo
as the winner of the first tournament, you've already had a chance to play on the maps

Nightmarjoo
since the first tournament, would you say the maps have improved?

Morrow[MB]
yes

Morrow[MB]
the last 2 weeks also

Morrow[MB]
big progress

Morrow[MB]


Nightmarjoo
that's good to hear

Nightmarjoo
what about the tournament itself

Nightmarjoo
has it gotten any better since the first day?

Morrow[MB]
welli was here

Morrow[MB]
the first 2 days

Morrow[MB]
and friday the last

Morrow[MB]
i think all 3 was good

Morrow[MB]
but i enjoyed first one most

Nightmarjoo
why is that?

Morrow[MB]
well it wasnt cuse of the maps

Morrow[MB]
it was mostly just that

Morrow[MB]):
first tournament in long time

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
ah

Nightmarjoo
so about the tournaments overall, do you think anything could be improved about them? any specific complaints you have?

Morrow[MB]
well not really

Morrow[MB]
would just be nice

Morrow[MB]
with more players

Morrow[MB]
i think the map pack is very good

Nightmarjoo
what do you think about the change in the tourney structure and mappack, that you can only pick from the featured maps until the semis, and once you get there there's only 3 additional maps to choose from?

Morrow[MB]
is that what it was now?

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
lol

Nightmarjoo
lol

Nightmarjoo
starting at the semis

Morrow[MB]
well its alittle complex

Nightmarjoo
you could also choose from tau/zodiac/othello

Morrow[MB]
personally i think it would be easier to understand

Morrow[MB]
to not split up semi with other

Morrow[MB]
niehter u have 3 prolueaue maps or no pro league maps

Morrow[MB]
during the entire including semi finals

Nightmarjoo
do you think it would be easier on everyone if you could only pick featured maps for the whole tournament?

Morrow[MB]
yes that sounds nice

Nightmarjoo
so you think then that maps are comfortable enough that players can adapt to them quickly?

Morrow[MB]
yes i think, but sound barrier

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
is pretty hard to learn

Nightmarjoo
it definitely is the least standard map in the pack

Nightmarjoo
so let's get some specific feedback on the maps, as far as balance goes, general gameplay, comfort, etc

Nightmarjoo
how about sound barrier first?

Morrow[MB]
should i mention mineral formations?

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
lol sure

Morrow[MB]
well the mineral formations overall

Morrow[MB]
are kinda bad

Morrow[MB]
scvs walk long distance etc

Nightmarjoo
you'd think those'd be the easier things to get right, eh?

Morrow[MB]
and i tried to help with supply but didnt work well

Morrow[MB]
yes shouldnt be hard

Morrow[MB]
to fix

Morrow[MB]
also the eggs in middle

Morrow[MB]
i think there should be 2 eggs only not 4

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Nightmarjoo
with 4 it gets kind of messy haha

Morrow[MB]


Morrow[MB]
the neutral buildings

Morrow[MB]
are pretty close to each other

Morrow[MB]
id like it if they were far from each other but still blocking

Morrow[MB]
somtimes when i target a building with my units to detroy it they attack the building in front

Nightmarjoo
it then would be a lot easier to destroy the wall though, there would be less wall overall

Morrow[MB]
its like trying to select a probe behind a nexus

Nightmarjoo
which might shift balance

Morrow[MB]
well the balance is harldly tried yet

Nightmarjoo
true

Nightmarjoo
what do you think so far about balance though?

Morrow[MB]
its very hard to tell

Morrow[MB]
like monty hall

Morrow[MB]
lol

Nightmarjoo
well that's better than it being obviously imbalanced

Morrow[MB]
i think it shouldnt be too imbalanced

Nightmarjoo
that's good

Morrow[MB]
ive mostly played tvz on it and i think it plays well

Morrow[MB]
didnt play pvz or tvp at all in fact

Nightmarjoo
ah

Morrow[MB]
i think it might be t>p

Nightmarjoo
why's that?

Morrow[MB]
well

Morrow[MB]
expansions overall seems kinda easy to take

Nightmarjoo
they are easily harassable though

Morrow[MB]
if u could imagine the middle was just plain terran would

Nightmarjoo
which usually helps protoss out

Morrow[MB]
be able to turtle hes exansions

Morrow[MB]
and the wall in middle favours terran i think, i mean if u removed the wall in middle map would favour terran less

Nightmarjoo
consider though, that only the corner expos are easily defended, with the 12/6 nd 3/9 expos both being fairly open

Nightmarjoo
and the expos with gas are kind of far

Nightmarjoo
while protoss can easily take a gas expo

Morrow[MB]
i think it would be more balanced in tvp if the 12 and 6 expansions wasnt tankable from the cliff behind

Nightmarjoo
hm

Nightmarjoo
that makes sense

Nightmarjoo
so, any other thoughts on sound barrier, or shall we move on?

Morrow[MB]
lets move on

Morrow[MB]
(:

Nightmarjoo
k

Nightmarjoo
how about, spinel valley?

Nightmarjoo
I know you were concerned about balance during the first tournament in this map

Morrow[MB]
well

Morrow[MB]
i think its t>z t>p z>p

Morrow[MB]
for terran it is very simple to take the expansions in start

Morrow[MB]
cuse the distance is so long and there isnt all open terrain terran can secure the wide ramps pretty simple

Morrow[MB]
i meant it was z>t not t>z

Nightmarjoo
on the other hand, the long distances and many paths allow players to easily flank and run around, and delay a terran push or something

Nightmarjoo
do you think they adequetely compensate?

Morrow[MB]
there are many expansions all over the map split at all places. the third gas is so very far away from terran

Nightmarjoo
doesn't that help pvt?

Nightmarjoo
since you're concerned it's t>p

Nightmarjoo
and in many maps, the 3rd gas is far from terran

Morrow[MB]
but

Morrow[MB]
i mean terran is far away from enemy third gas

Nightmarjoo
ah

Morrow[MB]
like in blue storm

Morrow[MB]
but in blue storm

Morrow[MB]
there is only 1 path in middle

Morrow[MB]
meanwhile this map there are many paths

Morrow[MB]
and its larger overall

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Nightmarjoo
but consider though, while the 3rd gas is far, it has a cliff directly overseeing it

Nightmarjoo (8:00 PM):
making it easy to tank or something

Nightmarjoo
and the many paths, with the map being fairly open, all help protoss

Nightmarjoo
there's actually quite a bit here which helps protoss

Nightmarjoo
and even though the 3rd gas is from terran, the next gas is not so far

Nightmarjoo
in most zvt nowadays

Nightmarjoo
I think terrans are used to zerg having 3gas

Nightmarjoo
and the 4th gas is harder to get than on another map

Nightmarjoo
where zerg might take the main/nat first, and then take the other as their 4th

Nightmarjoo
whereas the 4th is much farther away

Nightmarjoo
and isn't as easily defended

Nightmarjoo
which helps terran by making it hard on zerg

Morrow[MB]
yes u might be right

Nightmarjoo
but at the same time

Morrow[MB]
it shoulnt be t>p

Nightmarjoo
it also means zerg can run around a lot

Morrow[MB]
it is very simple for protoss to secure expansions and there are no big drop areas like in othello, protoss gets third gas simple like othello

Nightmarjoo
lol every expo is easily tankable

Morrow[MB]
the expansions in middle are tho very easy tanked from middle but also they can be storm dropped simple

Nightmarjoo
similar to othello

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Nightmarjoo
works that way in othello too

Nightmarjoo
except the expos are closer to eachother in othello

Morrow[MB]
but in othello the areas are larger

Morrow[MB]
and at 6 and 12 u can move up units simple

Nightmarjoo
I think you can run around easier in this map than in othello

Nightmarjoo
that may just be me however

Nightmarjoo
to me, othello feels kind of tight

Nightmarjoo
and spinel feels more open, to me

Nightmarjoo
so despite balance possibly being in question about the map, what do you think about its general feel?

Morrow[MB]
i think the map

Morrow[MB]
looks very cool

Morrow[MB]
decoration wise

Nightmarjoo
hehe

Morrow[MB]
also the concept is very interesting

Morrow[MB]
it feels like an improved blue storm

Nightmarjoo
improved? how so?

Morrow[MB]
this map

Morrow[MB]
many paths

Morrow[MB]
not as secure expands (middle)

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
feels like there will be

Morrow[MB]
more "war"

Morrow[MB]
and less arbiter emp war as in blue storm

Nightmarjoo
hehe

Nightmarjoo
I think the map definitely favours more of an aggressive harassing type gameplay

Nightmarjoo
far more so than in bluestorm

Nightmarjoo
can you think of any things you might change to the map?

Nightmarjoo
things to make it better balanced, more comfortable, etc

Morrow[MB]
i cant think of anything real but

Morrow[MB]
i dont understand

Morrow[MB]
at natural

Morrow[MB]
the tau cross area

Morrow[MB]
isnt droppable or is it?

Nightmarjoo
it's not

Nightmarjoo
the nat is not droppable at all

Morrow[MB]
maybe u could make it dropable

Morrow[MB]
then add a ramp behind it

Morrow[MB]
more interesting and maybe not 100% fe every game

Nightmarjoo
wouldn't that give zerg and protoss nightmares?

Nightmarjoo
imagine if there's a cliff and a ramp behind

Nightmarjoo
terran can 2rax factory zerg easily every game

Nightmarjoo
especially since the nat is already so tight

Nightmarjoo
and in general

Morrow[MB]
the distances

Morrow[MB]
are very long

Nightmarjoo
true

Morrow[MB]
zerg could concider to

Morrow[MB]
stay low on the tech vs 2rax fac

Morrow[MB]
and not mass sunken

Morrow[MB]
instead make many lings

Morrow[MB]
it shouldnt be too hard to scout 2rax fac at a map like this

Nightmarjoo
how do you think adding such a cliff and ramp would effect balance or gameplay? you mentioned it would force players to think first before FEing, I'm sure many people would rather the map kept more of a macro approach

Morrow[MB]
well

Morrow[MB]
i think its very fun

Morrow[MB]
when u can drop behind

Morrow[MB]
lurker in tau cross

Morrow[MB]
and tank goli

Morrow[MB]
at othello etc

Morrow[MB]
better than just fast expand every game

Morrow[MB]
the balance shouldnt be too effected

Nightmarjoo
at othello though, the cliff leads into the main, whereas here there isn't enough space to do so, and if you put a ramp it would have to face your opponent, which could make it difficult to stop

Morrow[MB]
yea might be true

Morrow[MB]
but i still think it misses something

Morrow[MB]
that makes it more interesting early game

Nightmarjoo
hm

Morrow[MB]
have u thought of making a troy opening

Nightmarjoo
no lol

Morrow[MB]
in middle of main cliffs?

Morrow[MB]
:DD

Nightmarjoo
lolwut

Morrow[MB]
what

Nightmarjoo
I'm not sure why or where you'd want to put that haha

Morrow[MB]
i mean

Morrow[MB]
u see the cliffs at 12

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
and then the natural

Morrow[MB]
there is like a chinese wall

Morrow[MB]
between

Morrow[MB]
in middle of that make a path with 2 assimilators

Morrow[MB]
where only small units can pass

Morrow[MB]
like blue storm

Nightmarjoo
wouldn't that give zerg a real headache zvt?

Nightmarjoo
and p in pvz

Nightmarjoo
and t in tvp

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
p in pvz yes

Morrow[MB]
t in tvp nah

Morrow[MB]
z in zvt

Morrow[MB]
i mean

Morrow[MB]
lings can kill

Morrow[MB]
them

Morrow[MB]


Morrow[MB]
ok never mind lets move on

Nightmarjoo
hehe ok

Morrow[MB]
i want funk :D

Nightmarjoo
what?

Morrow[MB]
in this map

Morrow[MB]
there is no neutral buildings

Morrow[MB]
or any gay stuff

Nightmarjoo
lol

Nightmarjoo
I think though, many players would rather it was that way haha

Nightmarjoo
so shall we move on to Dread Core?

Morrow[MB]
^^

Morrow[MB]
k

Nightmarjoo
so, what do you think about Dread Core?

Nightmarjoo
it definitely lacks

Nightmarjoo
all kinds of special features

Nightmarjoo
too

Morrow[MB]
yes

Nightmarjoo
it's more basic than spinel is

Morrow[MB]
yes

Morrow[MB]
everything is basic

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
simple

Nightmarjoo
and comfortable

Morrow[MB]
i like the map alot

Morrow[MB]
maybe just cuse i made it

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
I liked the map a lot when I played it today

Nightmarjoo
this version is much better

Nightmarjoo
than the first one

Nightmarjoo
I don't know what all you edited

Nightmarjoo
but I like it

Morrow[MB]
hehe

Morrow[MB]
i have no more comment about it

Nightmarjoo
lol

Nightmarjoo
I think that it needs some tvp testing

Nightmarjoo
I think it's probably solid zvt/zvp

Morrow[MB]
oh yes

Morrow[MB]
tvp testing

Nightmarjoo
but that if it has any imbalances

Nightmarjoo
it would be in tvp

Morrow[MB]
the distances are maybe

Morrow[MB]
really bad for protoss

Morrow[MB]
it feels like ur close ur opponent

Nightmarjoo
and the expos are easy to take, easy to defend

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
protosos must make

Morrow[MB]
many units

Morrow[MB]
before 2nd exp

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
^^

Morrow[MB]
shuttle with zea etc

Nightmarjoo
can you think of any way to help protoss out here, without messing up another matchup?

Morrow[MB]
maybe if all entire shit

Morrow[MB]
was rotated alittle making mains

Morrow[MB]
more in middle

Morrow[MB]
and nats to corner

Morrow[MB]
then distances longer

Morrow[MB]
but that is just so very much

Morrow[MB]

lol
Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
and muta harass might bee hard then

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
easy vs the mains maybe

Nightmarjoo
so protoss is imbalanced

Nightmarjoo
let them figure it out

Nightmarjoo


Morrow[MB]
i just think

Morrow[MB]
protoss needs alittle different gameplay

Morrow[MB]
in mid game

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
vs terran

Morrow[MB]
than like tau cross for expand

Morrow[MB]
example

Morrow[MB]
or longinus

Nightmarjoo
tau has much longer distances however

Morrow[MB]
so long p got many units terran wont get exp neiter so easy

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
maybe if the mains had 10 mineral chunks

Morrow[MB]
like longinus

Nightmarjoo
that might hurt the other matchups though

Morrow[MB]
ye

Morrow[MB]
i just wanted something to say

Morrow[MB]
lol

Nightmarjoo
hehe

Nightmarjoo
shall we move on then?

Morrow[MB]
k

Nightmarjoo
so what do you think about Voices IV?

Nightmarjoo
it's pretty basic overall

Morrow[MB]
i do think that

Morrow[MB]
its t>p

Nightmarjoo
how so?

Morrow[MB]
the min only seems kinda simple to take

Morrow[MB]
and p could just take the gas expoes normally

Nightmarjoo
everything is easy for protoss to take though lol

Morrow[MB]
yes but its alwauys easy for p

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
i think

Morrow[MB]
it would turn out

Morrow[MB]
alittle like andromeda terran

Nightmarjoo
bad?

Nightmarjoo


Morrow[MB]
terran take both expoes very fast

Morrow[MB]
andromeda got 5 chunks

Morrow[MB]
this map got 6 at minonly

Morrow[MB]
i think it should be 5 at this map

Morrow[MB]
cuse only terran will be interested at the minonly

Nightmarjoo
hm that's a thought

Morrow[MB]
in early

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
this map very nice i think

Morrow[MB]
i remember first version

Nightmarjoo
there've been some complaints about the natural, what do you think about that?

Morrow[MB]
was so much different ^^

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
the natural is alittle bit

Morrow[MB]
different

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
fucks up the logics

Morrow[MB]
with the testbugging

Morrow[MB]
lol

Nightmarjoo
lol

Nightmarjoo
what do you mean?

Morrow[MB]
the

Morrow[MB]
visual

Morrow[MB]
sunken ground to high ground

Morrow[MB]
i never seen before

Morrow[MB]
lol

Nightmarjoo
lol

Nightmarjoo
well it's interesting in that

Morrow[MB]
it looks very nice

Morrow[MB]


Nightmarjoo
even though it looks lower

Morrow[MB]
im alittle annoyed at the ramps

Nightmarjoo
you don't get penalties to your vision

Nightmarjoo
or to your hit%

Morrow[MB]
the ramps are ugly and wide in mains

Nightmarjoo
wide?

Nightmarjoo
in the mains?

Nightmarjoo
they have normal ramps

Morrow[MB]
if u compare to python ramps

Morrow[MB]
u cant block with 1 marine at this

Morrow[MB]
vs drone for example

Nightmarjoo
I don't think you can block a drone with 1 marine at python earlier

Nightmarjoo
especially at the non inverted ramps :O

Morrow[MB]
u can

Morrow[MB]
i garanty u that

Morrow[MB]
i do it every game

Nightmarjoo
if you say so

Morrow[MB]
these r even wider than luna

Morrow[MB]
i think they might need to get modified

Nightmarjoo
they're normal sized lol

Morrow[MB]
for players to feel more comfortable

Nightmarjoo
maybe

Nightmarjoo
well, any other thoughts on voices4?

Morrow[MB]
the gasses are targetable with marines

Morrow[MB]
from outside

Morrow[MB]
i dont like that

Nightmarjoo
only in

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
some positions

Nightmarjoo
T_T

Nightmarjoo
actually

Nightmarjoo
I think only top left

Morrow[MB]
yea i think sombody gna fix that

Nightmarjoo
yeah it's just a silly bug

Nightmarjoo
easily fixed

Nightmarjoo
marines are imba

Morrow[MB]


Nightmarjoo
so anything else, or shall we move on to korhal?

Morrow[MB]
lets move to koral

Nightmarjoo
k

Nightmarjoo
so by far

Nightmarjoo

this map is the most
Nightmarjoo
macro oriented

Nightmarjoo
in the pool

Nightmarjoo
what do you think about it?

Nightmarjoo
is it comfortable?

Morrow[MB]
i think

Morrow[MB]
its cool

Morrow[MB]
only thing concirning me about that map

Morrow[MB]
is that muta harassment might be

Morrow[MB]
too strong

Morrow[MB]
vs terran

Nightmarjoo
I dunno

Nightmarjoo
you can run behind the minerals with marines or place turrets there

Morrow[MB]
also slow lord lurker drop

Nightmarjoo
and there's room behind the nat minerals too

Morrow[MB]
behind the nats etc

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Nightmarjoo
there's definitely

Nightmarjoo
a lot of harass type stuff

Morrow[MB]
it might be uncomfortable for terran with the minonly like that

Nightmarjoo
that can be done with the min only

Nightmarjoo
well

Nightmarjoo
it's easy to take

Nightmarjoo
and easy to harass

Morrow[MB]
but terran will also be able

Morrow[MB]
to drop

Nightmarjoo
just like andromeda's

Morrow[MB]
i dont like

Morrow[MB]
how the middle looks

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
looks ridicilous

Morrow[MB]
like a joke

Morrow[MB]
what does that mean

Nightmarjoo
suppesedly it's

Nightmarjoo
the korhal symbol

Nightmarjoo
:O

Nightmarjoo
like, their emblem

Nightmarjoo
or something

Nightmarjoo
._.

Nightmarjoo
you'll have to take that one out with nasty haha

Morrow[MB]
^^

Morrow[MB]
there should be

Morrow[MB]
4 more overlord spots

Morrow[MB]
i can explain where

Morrow[MB]
if u get ur mark at minonly

Morrow[MB]
then u move directly to middle

Morrow[MB]
and as soon u hit normal platform

Morrow[MB]
exactly there should be a small high platform spot for overlords

Nightmarjoo
that's not too far from the ovy spot that's already here

Morrow[MB]
it is

Morrow[MB]
when blue moves lord to red

Morrow[MB]
adding that ove spot shouldnt make too different balancing

Morrow[MB]
also it doesnt look like blues ove spot works

Nightmarjoo
it does

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
u tested?

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Morrow[MB]
rines behind

Nightmarjoo
it's same teal's

Morrow[MB]
and in front?

Nightmarjoo
pretty sure ._.

Morrow[MB]
u should test again

Morrow[MB]
^^

Nightmarjoo
hehe ok

Morrow[MB]
we could test

Morrow[MB]
when we done

Morrow[MB]
with this

Nightmarjoo
no way, I'm starving haha

Morrow[MB]
lol

Morrow[MB]
well not my map

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
yep

Nightmarjoo
I can test with a computer anyway

Nightmarjoo
at worst

Nightmarjoo
I can put a doodad on the

Nightmarjoo
the brown platform

Nightmarjoo
to block it

Nightmarjoo
if marines can reach

Nightmarjoo
or something

Morrow[MB]
no just

Nightmarjoo
an easy fix if there is a problem

Morrow[MB]
put another tile

Morrow[MB]
of high platform

Nightmarjoo
that works too

Nightmarjoo
so, any other thoughts on korhal?

Morrow[MB]
cool

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
annoying to get ling rushed tho

Nightmarjoo
well the distances are long

Morrow[MB]
since ramps r inverted

Nightmarjoo
I'm not sure but

Nightmarjoo
well

Nightmarjoo
I'm not sure if you get a penalty to vision and hit%

Morrow[MB]
i think

Nightmarjoo
from the lower ground

Nightmarjoo
to the low platform

Morrow[MB]
the enterences should be

Morrow[MB]
like troy

Morrow[MB]
that would be cool

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
you think everything should be like troy lol

Morrow[MB]
troy is interesting

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
it is

Nightmarjoo
I think sometimes

Nightmarjoo
the fact that a map isn't interesting at all

Nightmarjoo
has its merits too

Nightmarjoo


Morrow[MB]
.p

Morrow[MB]
also

Morrow[MB]
the mineral formations

Nightmarjoo
oh yeah

Morrow[MB]
MUST be fixed

Nightmarjoo
hehe

Morrow[MB]
slacky mapmaker u always see

Nightmarjoo
yeah I'll look at them

Morrow[MB]
on the mineral formations

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
well nasty isn't

Nightmarjoo
very active

Nightmarjoo
but yeah I'll look at them

Nightmarjoo
and see what I can

Nightmarjoo
do

Nightmarjoo
shouldn't be hard

Nightmarjoo
you do realize though

Nightmarjoo
that the majority of pro maps

Nightmarjoo
have bad minerals too right?

Nightmarjoo
lol

Nightmarjoo
othello and katrina mine so badly for zerg

Morrow[MB]
i am terran user

Morrow[MB]
is my defense

Morrow[MB]
^^

Nightmarjoo
hehe

Morrow[MB]
well

Morrow[MB]
katrina can go fuck her self

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
othello is good formations

Morrow[MB]
and it isnt an exuse

Nightmarjoo
othello has terrible formations lol

Morrow[MB]
these formations can be fixed

Morrow[MB]
simple

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Nightmarjoo
bluestorm can mine badly too sometimes

Nightmarjoo
at any rate

Nightmarjoo
oh

Nightmarjoo
I almost forgot to say

Nightmarjoo
overall

Nightmarjoo
you seem to be content with the maps

Nightmarjoo
aside from little things

Nightmarjoo
which can easily be fixed

Morrow[MB]
content?

Nightmarjoo
do you think the maps are good enough

Nightmarjoo
content = like happy

Morrow[MB]
like gay

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
lol

Morrow[MB]
yes im gay about the maps

Nightmarjoo
do you think the maps are good enough that they could be in bigger things?

Nightmarjoo
such as, iccup?

Morrow[MB]
well

Nightmarjoo
or even TSL2?

Morrow[MB]
not sound barrier

Nightmarjoo
why's that?

Morrow[MB]
i think it would be imba

Morrow[MB]
dunno why tho

Nightmarjoo
hm

Nightmarjoo
could be

Morrow[MB]
its just so different

Morrow[MB]
so hard to expect it to be balanced

Nightmarjoo
overall it's not that different

Nightmarjoo
if you took out the wall

Nightmarjoo
it wouldn't be too different from othello

Morrow[MB]
well i think it would favour terran

Nightmarjoo
maybe

Morrow[MB]
fewer expansionns

Morrow[MB]
zerg cant hide

Morrow[MB]
:D

Morrow[MB]
also nat > zerg third gas

Nightmarjoo
the wall helps them hide

Morrow[MB]
distance short

Morrow[MB]
yes

Nightmarjoo
the wall makes distances longer

Morrow[MB]
the wall helps

Nightmarjoo
yeah

Nightmarjoo
I dunno

Nightmarjoo
it definitely needs more testing

Morrow[MB]
i think these maps

Nightmarjoo
but I think it can work out to be fine in the end

Morrow[MB]
could be in bigger things as in iccup

Morrow[MB]
at least id like that alot

Morrow[MB]
cuse they are very enjoyable

Nightmarjoo
can you imagine

Morrow[MB]
all of the maps got different gameplay

Nightmarjoo
being in the channel

Nightmarjoo
of iccup

Nightmarjoo
typing /motw

Nightmarjoo
and seeing some of these maps there?

Nightmarjoo
would be like

Nightmarjoo
OH DAMN, NOT SPINEL VALLEY

Nightmarjoo


Nightmarjoo
or

Nightmarjoo
YES, DREAD CORE

Morrow[MB]
ye i wouldnt play spinel valley

Morrow[MB]
ye i would play dread core all the time

Nightmarjoo
and see people in the channel spamming

Nightmarjoo
1v1 C+ Voices msg

Morrow[MB]
i think dread core and voices

Morrow[MB]
would be only popoular

Nightmarjoo
I think spinel and korhal could be popular too

Nightmarjoo
they're not terribly different

Nightmarjoo
they're fairly basic

Morrow[MB]
i think newb protoss players that doesnt know how to play this game max rank c- would say khoral pride is protoss nightmare

Nightmarjoo
maybe

Nightmarjoo
the middle lets

Nightmarjoo
protoss flank and counter very easily

Nightmarjoo
and they can harass the min only or 3rd gas pretty easily

Nightmarjoo
so overall, you like the maps, and like the tournaments?

Morrow[MB]
ye

Nightmarjoo
any final thoughts about anything here?

Morrow[MB]
i would love if i could play these maps

Morrow[MB]
in iccup

Morrow[MB]
maps like andromeda ppl dont enjoy that much

Nightmarjoo
what about something like TSL2? Do you think they would play well at that level, and do you think they would entertain an audience well?

Morrow[MB]
yes

Morrow[MB]
very enjoyable to watch

Morrow[MB]
especially

Nightmarjoo
cool

Morrow[MB]
khoral pride

Morrow[MB]
i think mid games

Morrow[MB]
would look very cool

Morrow[MB]
with many units

Morrow[MB]


Nightmarjoo
hehe

Nightmarjoo
so then, unless you have any shoutouts or final comments, I think we're done here?

Morrow[MB]
beakdu and katrina sucks

Morrow[MB]
im done

Morrow[MB]
:D

Nightmarjoo
ez

Nightmarjoo
well Morrow[MB]

Nightmarjoo
thanks for coming

Nightmarjoo
thanks for the interview

Nightmarjoo
and thanks for the map

Morrow[MB]
ye np

Nightmarjoo
hope to see you in another tournament maybe, if we keep this up

Morrow[MB]
and thank u for taking dread core

Morrow[MB]
into this

Nightmarjoo
sure

Nightmarjoo
it's played pretty well

Nightmarjoo
I haven't regretted it... yet

Morrow[MB]
:D

Morrow[MB]
ok im off

Morrow[MB]
cya

Nightmarjoo
k

Nightmarjoo
later

Nightmarjoo
thanks again

The finals for this tournament ended up being DNA]3rdsin[ vs cA59x, ca59x is up 1-0, and the other games will be played tomorow.
There will be a few more edits to the maps by the time we host the third tournament. Namely Sound Barrier and Dread Core 1.1's modifications for today were not perfect, luckily it didn't effect any of the games. Thrice is a charm, eh? Hope to see you guys and more tomorow!

Alright the first 16 man tournament has run successfully! We actually managed to get 16 players, with only two byes, and both played one game before leaving!

Congratulations to ca59x, aka Infernal, who won first place, and Morrow[MB] who was the runner up.

Tourney Bracket

Since this was the first tournament, I decided to interview both the winner and runner up, to get their feedback on the maps and the tournament itself. The following interview was actually massively cropped and edited, just to make it this short! Both players happily gave tons of feedback and discussion about the maps specifically, and the tournament itself. The full interview took THREE HOURS!

Interview
+ Show Spoiler +

Also note: We're changing the mappool slightly, it includes the five featured maps as well as Othello, Zodiac, and Tau Cross.
It can be found here
If your mappack doesn't say BWM Tourney 1.7, you have the wrong pack.
List of changes to featured maps
+ Show Spoiler +

The format of the tournament will also slightly change. The loser of the bo3 may only choose a featured map, except in the Semi Finals and Finals, where after the preselected map the loser may choose any map in the mappool, including the three korean pro maps.
This change is to put more of an emphasis on just the featured maps, while still leaving a cushion of comfortable maps for players to have once it reaches the semi finals.
Additionally, we'll be switching up the order for the featured maps. In order of appearance will be Spinel Valley III, Korhal Pride 1.3, Dread Core 1.1, Sound Barrier 1.2, and Voices IV.

The first tournament went smoothly, and overall was a success, though the length of the games could not quite be called long, resulting from a large skill gap between the players. Despite this, I definitely appreciate everyone who came. I would much rather have five short games than five automatic walkouts.
I again urge anyone and everyone who might be interested to show up, bring your friends, if there's 32 players we can do a 32 man tournament, if there are more than 16 and one of the first 16 afks we can sub in another player, and most gamers allow observer, so at worst you can watch a potentially exciting match on a interesting map.

For those who doubt in the skill level of the tournament, while it may not quite be pro-level, we did get a decent showing of skill, seen in DeA[Light] B+ gamer, Nb.Crackling and Morrow[MB], B- gamers, formerly Can-A Ryan Cheung (Dossy-Lzuruha), B+ gamer mtwAMD-Infernal, and progamer SCC-Faust.

Ok I made about this forever ago but never officially set it up, so here goes nothing!

So the plan is, that I'm going to host a 16 man tournament on monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, and friday of next week, at 3 pm EST, which if I can count is 21:00 CET in channel "op bwm" in server europe. I opted to not use iccup, because I know not everyone can access iccup, and to avoid the social aspects having a big fat letter rank on your name can have. I couldn't think of a legitimate reason to use any bnet server over any other server, so I picked europe, because it sounds the coolest.

The main purpose of the tourneys is to get games on some bwm maps, while showing TL some of our maps at the same time. In every map thread we post here, a few people here and there say they would like to play on the maps, but for the most part there just isn't any real medium through which to get people to play eachother on the maps, that's what this is for.

The featured maps will fill up the first game of each round. Each match will be bo3, with one predetermined featured map starting each round, with the loser picking any map from the given mapppool, including the featured maps. The final round will be bo5.

I have no idea how many people turn up, if 32 people turn up I can make it a 32man tourney. In case people go afk before their match, I'll allow someone in the channel who isn't afk to replace a player in the first round only, 10 minutes after they should have started their first game. Players will have the opportunity to take a 5 minute break between games and between matches, with a walkout given should a player exceed 5 minutes, if their opponent so desires. Exceptions can definitely be made if I deem it's appropriate, eg. if a player says he'll be back in 10 minutes and his opponent agrees, I have no problem with this, with all sorts of other valid scenarios.

The mappool, from which the loser of any game may choose from, is as follows:

(2)Geisterfahrer
(2)Signal
(4)Faoi IV
(4)Nazca
(4)Shine
(3)Athena
(4)Colosseum
(4)Othello
(4)Wuthering Heights
(4)Zodiac

I selected these maps to try and get both maps you might never have played for interest value, as well as maps you ought to be comfortable with by now, but which are not terribly popular or atleast overplayed at the moment.

To clarify: The first map of round 1, the ro16 if you would, is mandatorily Sound Barrier. The loser of the game on Sound Barrier is given the decision to choose which map in the mappool, including the featured maps, will be played for the second game of the bo3. Loser picks from mappool, he can repeat the same map if he wishes. The first map of the ro8 is Voices IV. The first map of the ro4 is Spinel Valley III. The first map of the Finals is Korhal Pride, and the second map is mandatorily Dread Core. For the final round, the loser of the first game does not get to choose the next map, both the first and second game of the bo5 is predetermined. The loser of the second game however can choose from any map in the mappool.

Chaos Launcher is allowable if both players have it. Observers are allowed in any game if both players agree.

While replay saving is not mandatory, bwm would greatly appreciate any and all replays possible. If there is a dispute over any game and a replay is not available, the players will have the ability to replay the game to settle the dispute. If there are no available replays, and one player refuses to replay the game, he forfeits the game. So yes, replay saving and uploading etc is not required, but it would help us the mappers out a lot, as well as keep things smooth within the tourney should any issue come up.

All bugs or glitches are allowed, at the moment. Hacking in any shape or form is not allowed, and your game will be reversed should there be either proof or lots of rather convincing evidence suggesting that you used some form of hack in the tournament. Only the latest match will be reversed however, eg. if LeetMachine06 hacks vs Freddy2000 in the first round, but the hack is not discovered or revealed until LeetMachine06 beats pIsImbalanced in the third round, pIsImbalanced will recieve the win for the match and advance (unless he hacks too, in which case a walkover will be given to whoever would be their opponent).

Alternatively, you can email any replays to me at iuliuspwnsall@yahoo.com.

The replay uploader for every map individually is found in each map's thread, at broodwarmaps.net. It's a really simple process to upload replays, and they really do help.

The winner of the tournament aside from winning shame and immortality in this thread, will also have a personal interview, with questions potentially dealing with your opinions of the maps, your favourite map ever, your favourite progamer, the current progaming scene, starcraft2, among with whatever else I come up with by that time. The interview will appear in the front page news of bwm, as well as in an ever growing spoiler in this thread at the top, and I dunno I can post it in a thread on gg.net or scforall.com or something if it strikes your fancy.
I'm sorry the prize kind of sucks, but given that it's not the most prestegious tournament out there, I suppose not quite the most prestegious prize out there is in order. This is at the moment the best I can offer.

So you guys have a week to look over the maps, give me any suggestions on changes for the tournament before I host it, etc. Any kind of feedback is helpful. Hopefully by the end of next week, I will have hosted five of these tournaments, with Saturday and Sunday being a rest day where everything for that week is assimilated, and the maps are worked on for the next week, and sometime in the week after I will release the next set of featured maps, along with any other changes to the tournament, etc. If the turnout is high and activity remains stable, this can go on theoretically indefinitely. It's quite possible that a tourney will be delayed a weak or something if the mappers need more time to fix up the maps for you guys, or something like that.

I would like to apologize in advanced for any errors which happen, in the tourney organization, errors and bugs in the maps themselves, problems with the mappack itself, etc. All of these maps have been tested, but that doesn't mean they're perfect. It's quite possible that something silly missed our screening, something which potentially could create bad or awkward gameplay, and/or imbalanced gameplay. Not everything is apparent in basic test games or theory crafting, and you'd be surprised what you can find in a map if you have the imagination for it.

You can download the current map pack here. All featured maps have a melee version, an observer version, and a picture. Some of the non-featured maps are missing observer versions. I can make them should anyone specifically request one.

So for now, please comment on the structure of the tournament, on the map pack, on the featured maps, etc. Anything and everything can be helpful, so don't be shy. If the only thing you have to say is "I'LL BE THERE, ALL FIVE DAYS, AND YOU'LL GET FIVE INTERVIEWS FROM ME, I'M TELLING YOU NOW!", go for it! I'd love to see both enthusiasm, the promise of atleast one person showing up, and some competetive spirit. While this is intended to help out the mappers at bwm, bare in mind this is also supposed to be fun and entertaining, play your heart out on these maps, whether it be showcasing the best macro a foreign map has ever seen, exploiting some obscure map feature with an absolutely brilliant and quirky strategy, anything! Give us everything you've got!