I dont TvT often which is prob the problem but i think i did pretty well for not playing TvT EVER.
1v1 TvT BCS
Its starts out normal with him going vultures and i fend them off............. after a while then it goes into the turtle terrans that u know and love.
He then goes BCS which i dont c......... yes that was one problem.
He then brings tanks and shit to my main and i lose.

amoxicilline

France1124 Posts

September 17 2006 07:34 GMT

you got too passive this game
your map control was off , you don't contain him ,you have nothing to see drops coming
you don't prevent him from expanding

and I think only attack upgrades are worth it in tvt (something with siege tanks killing other tanks with 2 shots instead of 3 and gols being >> with 3-0 vs unupgraded bcs)

and you lost a lot at beginning of the game
you shouldn't have tried to go out
as soon as you see vults go either for scan to kill mines at your nat or turrets (I prefer scan though)

you built really early in the game a useless engineering bay , I didn't get why academy would have been way more useful

SCNewb

Canada2210 Posts

September 17 2006 08:32 GMT

you didn't prevent him from expanding........I recommend watching some TvT replays or VODs

PersonMan

United States113 Posts

September 17 2006 09:28 GMT

you didnt prevent him from attacking, I recommend you watch TvT Vods or reps...

DaZe

Sweden2111 Posts

September 17 2006 14:00 GMT

bc + tankzzzz > all -_-vVVV

Zeto

United States2290 Posts

September 18 2006 02:39 GMT

yeah tvt is a bitch

find a way to gain map control, if you get contained, get out of it asap, use scvs if you have to, control as many resources as you can, and scan scan scan to make sure he isn't switching from land to air, and to note in your head where in the map he's weak to either counter-attack when he tries moving, or for dropships to fly in.

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

September 18 2006 12:05 GMT

I'm watching right now and I'll give commentary as I go along.

I assume you are white since I see orange going 2 fac and you 1 fac. I'll note that orange is slightly ahead in build, but that doesn't make a huge difference.

Okay, first big issue is pretty early. You lose your first tank needlessly due to sloppy micro. With 1 factory builds, you cannot afford to make careless errors early. I'm not saying don't use them since I use them a lot myself, but you can't afford to let sloppy control cost you a critical tank. Using his advantage, orange turns on the pressure and you lose quite a few tanks and SCVs, plus you are now way behind in your expansion.

Your vult raid at his nat was a good counter, but somewhat predictable since you went built all those factories while he was in your base. He read it reasonably well and defended it easily. No idea why orange hasn't taken his gas yet despite expoing so much faster than you and being in control of the econ game. No idea why his scv production gone to hell either.

The e-bay wasn't all that early and not a big factor...dunno what other people are talking about. You made it like 10 minutes into the game.

Your reactions to his drops are kind of slow, particularly the second one which you saw well in advance with your vults but didn't react to.

Okay, a comment. It's now 13 minutes and change into the game. I see orange floating a CC from his main and I don't see you making any new expo attempts despite ground superiority. Right now you can safely expand to another gas base. You have 8 tanks, 5 gols and 7 vults He has 8 tanks, 6 gols and 3 dropships. While dropships can be used strategically to insert tanks into killer locations, you've had that e-bay like forever. You should have been using your early e-bay as an exuse to put up turrets to deter the threat of drops from certain locations. You don't have to block him from dropping anywhere...you just need to be able to predict where he will drop. If you had been more clever in your mine use, early turret placements and setting up strategic tank lines you could have had both the gas expansions nearest his base effectively containing him to his little corner of the map, but your positioning right now is not good enough for you to double expand. You can only afford one more base at the moment, so in this case it may be wise to expand between your bases with a good tank line and turret cover. Well placed tanks near those bridges can quite easily get double their value in kills (so 4 well placed tanks in siege mode can take on all 8 of his tanks). That's the thing about mid/late game TvT...you have to consider 3 elements: tank line placements, strategical drop locations and aerial power (usually aerial power plays its biggest role in openings and closings, opening for obvious reasons and in closings when the ground war is at a stalemate and the number of options for how to maneuver lines/drops is running low).

Okay, I'm going to break this into two posts.

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

September 18 2006 12:31 GMT

15 min and change in...by now your advantage is gone. He cleared your mines at 9 and now he has 3 gas running before your first expo is up. Your containment abilities are shallow since now he has 4 dropships, a considerable number of tank/gol, and his defensive perimter has expanded considerably. He's not playing perfectly, but rather you are playing carelessly, leaving your tanks/gols in a tightly clumped ball with your tanks in tank mode just sitting at the base you are expanding to. You've left yourself in a position where you are behind in econ and on top of that you have minimal coverage to defend against a push from the top road or from a drop at any location except immediately in front of the expo you are building (yet that doesn't stop him from being able to drop your ledge). In that span of 2 minutes you have gone into a losing position despite adding dropships and having a slight supply advantage.

16 min...glad to see you spread your tanks and sieged them, but no offense...you have to be stupid to think he's gonig to play a push based game now that he's dropped you twice and has those 4 dropships. You don't have enough visibility or coverage against drops.

18 min he dropped where I knew he would. You took care of it but he made his worth in damage and took a mineral base for an advantage. His turrets all around his base make your dropships useless for anything other than defensive purposes. You need another gas and an air war seems imminent, despite the possibility of a combo push + drop at the 9 gas base still being a viable option.

22 min...LOL he rolled over you in the middle. Your "push" was half ass and you ended up just balling your tanks and sieging in the middle of nowhere with no positioning at all. In a push based TvT, positioning is everything. Positioning >>>> macro easily. His sphere of influence is now about half the map as he is taking another gas base (1) and he has the 1 minerals and the upper center minerals within his sphere of influence. Now, wtf are you doing with tanks randomly sieged at your main? Not even in good positions either. Keep your shit together if you are going to push, and your dropships should be hovering over your army ready to drop right over top of his lines should he try to come within range of you and siege.

LOL...after that huge botch of a two pronged attack he attempted...he should lose 100%. You need to be on your toes and counter asap since you have an advantage now. He's not covering EITHER his 9 bases or his 1 base. You can take out 1 of them or possibly even both.

Now you botched a drop....

Frankly, I have no idea why he is going BC right now. You're spreading yourself very thin and his defenses against drop are solid. A push based game would favor him. An aerial game would actually be bad since now you took bot left main and you can take the gas nat there to gain a gas advantage over him.

And why the hell are you insisting on a drop game? LOL? Right now you WANT to turtle to slow the game down because your sphere of influence has 5 gas and his has 4. You want to take all those 5 gas and then bleed him until you can take him down. With a little turtling, an aerial game will favor you badly.

27 minutes: now it's too late. His BC fleet is too big for you to take down. You made too many stupid mistakes that cost you too big. GG no re~