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The Coach Park Effect Pt. 2 - ft. CJ Entus

Forum Index > SC2 General
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GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-30 12:22:59
December 30 2013 12:22 GMT
#1
In the world of competitive gaming, players exist as the ultimate embodiment of skill. It is hard to deny that players like Innovation, Life, MMA, MVP, DRG, Jaedong, Rain, and Dear are or were some of the best in the world, brought forth by the shadowy world we know as Korea. A country where team houses and an unswerving dedication to the game is needed to bring forth enough skill to compete with the worst of the best. In these houses, players sit for hours on end, practicing, focusing, and improving without hesitation. It is a system that has never been successfully recreated on a grand scale anywhere else, with well-intentioned team houses turning into little more than a mockery of the Korean system. Heading these mysterious keys to unlocking potential, however, are the coaches. Not many of these coaches are well known to the community - IM's coach Hirai and ex-MVP coach Choi are two of the more noticeable leaders. There is one man, however, who's name is only whispered. A legend, a man who turns teams that could accomplish less than a blank kickstarter page into championship contenders, who unites players into an unstoppable force. A man, they say, who makes miracles. That man is Coach Park, and today, his new team makes its debut in Proleague.

The question is not is Coach Park good enough. The question also is not is CJ Entus good enough. The true question is, how good will they become? The fabled Coach Park was hired last season by a drowning EGTL, the team's last chance of putting in a performance worthy of a team that was participating in Proleague. The turnaround was abrupt - before, the team sat in last place, struggling to put together enough wins to pull an ace match let alone a win. After he arrived, however, the EGTL house underwent a rapid transformation into a serious environment and the team gained steam, almost taking 6th place away from a struggling CJ Entus at the end of the season. A ragtag band of Korean warriors brought together under the banner of foreign participation in Proleague were turned into a ruthlesss group of winners that were able to give the best teams of the season a run for their money in the closing weeks of Proleague.

Given the improvement that Coach Park brought upon EGTL in just a few months, one wonders what he could do given a few months before the start of Proleague itself. A bare hint of what is to come can be found when one examines the numbers of CJ Entus players, and looks at the recent actions of the team itself. The first key to notice is that CJ Entus has begun a massive campaign of fan interaction. The CJ Entus-yon Pop video was the first signal of Coach Park's changes. Following this, CJ Entus also ran a cosplay competition, where Madlife, Flame, and Effort were voted to cosplay game-related characters (Effort Hydralisk incoming). One more change, not immediately noticed as strange, is the massive increase in participation of various events from CJ Entus players. Notably, Red Bull Battlegrounds NY, IEM Singapore, and Dreamhack Winter saw a flood of CJ Entus players. Bunny Sora, Bbyong, Trust, Effort, sKyHigh, Hush/Bong, herO, Songduri, Rare, and Hydra all showed up for Red Bull NYC qualifiers, and all of those except Hush also tried to qualify for IEM Singapore. Dreamhack Winter qualifiers were attempted by sKyHigh, Bbyong, Bunny, Trust, Hush, Effort, Hydra, and Songduri.

Of course, increased participation doesn't mark any sort of important increase in skill in players - instead, we should look to the numbers. The most important of these are the current Front Five for CJ Entus - Bbyong, herO[join], Hydra, Effort, and Sora, who basically mark the CJ Entus A+ team. First among equals is herO[join], the almost undisputed ace of CJ Entus and one of the hottest players coming into Proleague. herO[join], before Coach Park's arrival, was not a shabby performer at all. He had a 54% winrate in games and a 57% winrate in matches, and, as Khaldor proclaimed just last night, anyone over 50% winrate in Korea is a very good player. Of course, this would be good on its own, but when you look at his Post-Park stats, he becomes one of the best in the world. His game winrate jumps from 54% to 69%, and his match winrate goes from 57% to a ridiculously high 83%. In the same period, Dear was 64%/67%, and Rain was 59%/66%. In essence, herO[join] has been the best performing Protoss player in the last five months, outdoing Dear and Rain's performances in WCS and Blizzcon. He's beaten Dear, Maru, Sora, San, DRG, MVP, Bomber, Dream, Jaedong, soO, Polt, Stats, Symbol, and Rain in matches in the last two months alone. On a massive tear coming into Proleague, it would be a shock if he did anything except dominate the coming season, especially given his prowess in PvP.

The next man up for CJ Entus is Hydra, the cyclops zerg. Hydra wasn't an especially prominent player in the Korean scene prior to Coach Park's arrival - he was a strong player, especially in ZvP, but he never seemed to have the spark of power that would make him an ace-category zerg like Roro or Soulkey. In truth, he was hardly impressive, with a 48% game winrate and a 49% match winrate. However, the transformation since Coach Park's arrival has been both swift and significant. Hydra has shot up to a 63% winrate in games and 74% in matches, with wins over players like Squirtle, Rain, Classic, Dear, and Scarlett. With the mass of Protoss in Proleague, Hydra's ~65% winrate will serve him well as he squares off again with the talented masses of PvProleague.

The third big man on campus for CJ Entus is the ex-retiree Effort. No stranger to pressure in the booth, Effort has a storied history as a Brood War player and looks set to make a name for himself as a solid if not exceptional player in Starcraft 2. Effort is, perhaps, one of the CJ Entus players that has seen the least improvement percentage-wise after Coach Park's hiring. However, unlike Hydra, Effort did not really need any sort of help from Coach Park to be good. He held a solid 60% winrate in games and 58% in matches, which basically flips around to 58% and 61% in games and matches after the hiring of Coach Park. Effort struggled after the switch to HotS like many of the CJ players, and though his game appears to have cleaned up, it will take some high-profile games in Proleague before it can be truly determined whether he is as good as his previous successes suggest he is (or if he can get even better).

Sora doesn't really need an introduction. He comes fourth in the line of CJ Entus rookies that have made big splashes, but, unlike Trust, Hush, and Bunny, he has not faded almost immediately after his debut games. Before Coach Park, Sora had played a grand total of 18 recorded games and went 9-9 in games and 4-4 in matches, displaying an extremely exciting winrate of 50%. It is not certain whether or not his breakout is a direct effect of Coach Park's arrival, but we can say with certainty that after the arrival of Coach Park, Sora exploded onto the scene and went played 110 games, going 73-37 for a 66% winrate and a 72% winrate in matches overall. While much of Sora's recent wins have come from foreigners in WCG, he has beaten Dream, Life, Parting, Revival, Impact, Bbyong, and Curious in recent times. Sora's arrival has been an incredible relief to the lineup of CJ Entus, giving them what appears to be a reliable second Protoss player in addition to bolstering their lineup to solidify their place as one of the best teams, whether in a bo5 or bo7 format.

Finally, Bbyong rounds out the core lineup of CJ Entus. Bbyong has been called a successor to Virus for quite some time - he showed mediocre performance that was just enough for him to stay borderline Code S, and nothing very flashy or exceptional. In the previous Proleague season, he had shown flashes of talent in TvP, with occasionally funky builds being used to throw off his opponents and give him a big advantage. In his mediocre days, Bbyong was very much mediocre, with a 48% winrate in games and 47% in matches. After Coach Park's arrival, Bbyong improved rapidly and his improvement is visible in his recent results. In the qualifiers for IEM Sao Paulo, Bbyong took out herO[join], Dark, eMotion, Hydra, Squirtle, and sKyHigh, while also 2-0'ing Taeja and 2-1'ing Ryung in Red Bull Battlegrounds NYC qualifiers. He, like herO[join], has been on a tear recently and coming in to Proleague where Protosses reign supreme, it should suit him quite well.

This is pretty long already, so the rest of the best will be put in spoilers - thanks for reading :D

+ Show Spoiler [Trust] +
Trust was one of the three rookies to make a splash in the CJ roster near the end of last Proleague season. Trust won a handful of series in Code A, and then his sprint to prominence ran out of juice. He notably beat Lucky, Genius, and Dream in Code A, but failed absurdly quickly after his handful of Code A wins. He was played a handful of times in Proleague, and while he had hard opponents for most games, his rapid decline after his few strong wins left him fading into obscurity. He held a 40% game winrate and a 33% match winrate before Coach Park's arrival, but when Coach Park did come, he improved in a big way. He jumped to a 63% winrate in games and 65% in matches, with wins over Curious, Lucky, Check, Reality, Effort, Billowy, Sora, herO[join], and Symbol in recent times. He, too, has been on a rapid improvement since the arrival of Coach Park, and while CJ's Protoss line is well-set with the bo5 format, it is always good to have a backup and potential sniper that has a record of strong performance, to allow some variance in the lineup.


+ Show Spoiler [Bunny] +
Bunny, alongside Bbyong, makes up CJ's proleague Terran lineup (as much as i'd love it to happen, sKyHigh probably won't make an appearance). Bunny had an impressive few games in Proleague, especially compared to Trust, as he went 4-1 with wins over Reality and Rogue as his two most notable victories. He also took out DRG and Leenock in Code A, but otherwise didn't perform - he had a handful of wins against now-retired players like Last, Best, and Iris, and hadn't really managed to get any wins over big names. His position post-Park hasn't changed much - his win rates have balanced out at 51% games and 50% matches, and while he has gotten some wins against notable names like Flash, Tassadar, Squirtle, and soO, he isn't showing a rapid upswing in skill that other CJ players have shown. It doesn't bode well for his prospects in Proleague, unless he can find somewhere to improve rapidly.


+ Show Spoiler [Hush] +
Hush, better known as Bong, comes in with a story quite similar to Trust. He made a convincing early debut in Proleague, with wins over Flash, Rogue, Jaedong, soO, and Dear before running into a wall in April. His previous strong performances began to fall apart as his only two wins came against Stork and Roro. He ended the pre-Park period with a 39% game winrate and 36% match winrate. Much like Trust, after Coach Park's arrival, Hush improved quite drastically. While not turning into the same level of Protoss as herO[join], he has become a reliable, solid, if not flashy player. Hush now holds a 54% winrate in games and 60% in matches, though several of his recent wins come from foreigners so it is difficult to tell how much he has really improved so far.


+ Show Spoiler [rare] +
Unfortunately, I must make the proclamation that Rare is just not that good. He is consistently at a 40-44% winrate overall and hasn't really showed any signs of improvement under Coach Park's tutelage. I hate to condemn him to retirement or cleaning dishes, but with Hydra, Effort, and Songduri in line before him, it's hard to believe that someone with no real sign of betterment will show up in the lineup any time soon. Fortunately, he is a rarity (pardon the pun) and an exception to the rule rather than the norm.


+ Show Spoiler [Songduri] +
Songduri, while definitely the third-string Zerg on CJ, is by no means a bad player. He was running a 47% game winrate and 43% match winrate, notably taking wins off of Pigbaby, Sora, and eMotion but not a lot of performance otherwise. Fortunately, after Coach Park's arrival, he joined the ranks of improvers and even made a brief appearance in Code S (not a successful outing, but he did take a game off of Rain). So far he finds himself holding a 56% winrate in games and 60% winrate in matches, making him close with Effort statistically, though his wins are not against competition that is quite as difficult as Effort's foes. He does appear to be more well-rounded, and could earn himself a spot in the lineup based on having a solid base in all three match ups, while Effort has always struggled slightly with his ZvP.


+ Show Spoiler [sKyHigh] +
sKyHigh, too, must be doomed to the back of the CJ bus, as much as it hurts my heart. His pre-Park winrates are actually higher than his post-Park win rates, though this is mostly padded by the MLG MvP Invitational - wins over players like Idra Sheth, and qxc padded his winrate to 53% in games and 51% in matches, while his mostly Korean matches after Park's arrival come out as 47% in games and 38% in matches. The one big hope is that he managed to go 1-2 with Ryung, Avenge, and Bbyong in recent games, so it's possible that he's not as bad as the percentages suggest, but so far he hasn't shown anything to make him shine brighter than Bunny as the backup Terran for CJ Entus, especially since Bunny is a relative newcomer to the scene and likely has a lot of room to improve.
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
AyaaLa
Profile Joined February 2012
Spain629 Posts
December 30 2013 12:28 GMT
#2
fantastic post! 1+. I hope that Bunny and sKyHigh shows some good games this season, cj needs some terrans <3
i balance whine all the time.
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
December 30 2013 12:33 GMT
#3
Great write-up. CJ entus looking the strongest right now in PL with SKT.
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IAMPRO
Profile Joined November 2011
Afghanistan118 Posts
December 30 2013 13:42 GMT
#4
Nice post. Not only are CJ performing well but they seem pretty chilled and happy. They also make much more effort than any other kespa team to be charismatic and interactive. It is this just as much as results that makes me root for them.
SuHoSin - we'll never forget your genius
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
December 30 2013 14:54 GMT
#5
On December 30 2013 21:33 Lorning wrote:
Great write-up. CJ entus looking the strongest right now in PL with SKT.

well i am not so sure anymore^^
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
never_Nal
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica676 Posts
December 30 2013 15:01 GMT
#6
This is awesome post, I think you could post part 1 for those who haven't read anything
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
January 04 2014 00:46 GMT
#7
On December 31 2013 00:01 never_Nal wrote:
This is awesome post, I think you could post part 1 for those who haven't read anything


I'm mostly referring to it as part 2 because of his work with EGTL - there was a nice article (with graphs and things!) by Ender985 here~
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Hauser878
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia17 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-04 01:07:51
January 04 2014 01:07 GMT
#8
Everyone talks about how Park revitalised EGTL but the record before and after his arrival is pretty similar.
After the first 3 rounds (before Park), EGTL were 7-14 (going 3-4, 3-4 and a disastrous 1-7).
In the final 3 rounds (with Park), EGTL were 9-12 (going 3-4, 3-4 and 3-4 again).
Outside of the terrible round 3, EGTL had a pretty similar record before and after Park.

In terms of individual maps, in the first 3 rounds, EGTL were 47-69, 40.5% (21-20, 19-23 and a disastrous 7-26)
If you don't consider round 3, they were 40-43 which is 48%
With Park, EGTL were 54-70 43.5%(19-25, 15-23 and 20-22).
Without round 3, Park-less EGTL did better than it did with Coach Park and even if the disastrous round 3 is included, it is pretty close (40.5-43.5).

Good writeup though ^_^
Almost the weekend
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
January 04 2014 01:17 GMT
#9
Come on CJ you are winning my heart but you got to
Pick it up other PL teams are also vying for it !
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
Ensue
Profile Joined March 2013
United States144 Posts
January 04 2014 01:52 GMT
#10
On January 04 2014 10:07 Hauser878 wrote:
Everyone talks about how Park revitalised EGTL but the record before and after his arrival is pretty similar.


Then again, the guys seemed to do better in tournaments that weren't Proleague, long after Proleague was over And Taeja OP because he didn't even live in the teamhouse lol.
“Toast cannot be explained by any rational means. Toast is me. I am toast.” —Margaret Atwood, Oryx and Crake
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
January 04 2014 02:09 GMT
#11
The fabled Coach Park was hired last season by a drowning EGTL, the team's last chance of putting in a performance worthy of a team that was participating in Proleague. The turnaround was abrupt - before, the team sat in last place, struggling to put together enough wins to pull an ace match let alone a win. After he arrived, however, the EGTL house underwent a rapid transformation into a serious environment and the team gained steam, almost taking 6th place away from a struggling CJ Entus at the end of the season. A ragtag band of Korean warriors brought together under the banner of foreign participation in Proleague were turned into a ruthlesss group of winners that were able to give the best teams of the season a run for their money in the closing weeks of Proleague.


EGTL still ended up in 8th place. They just weren't good enough, and even Park couldn't save them.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Neemi
Profile Joined August 2012
Netherlands656 Posts
January 04 2014 11:49 GMT
#12
On January 04 2014 11:09 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
The fabled Coach Park was hired last season by a drowning EGTL, the team's last chance of putting in a performance worthy of a team that was participating in Proleague. The turnaround was abrupt - before, the team sat in last place, struggling to put together enough wins to pull an ace match let alone a win. After he arrived, however, the EGTL house underwent a rapid transformation into a serious environment and the team gained steam, almost taking 6th place away from a struggling CJ Entus at the end of the season. A ragtag band of Korean warriors brought together under the banner of foreign participation in Proleague were turned into a ruthlesss group of winners that were able to give the best teams of the season a run for their money in the closing weeks of Proleague.


EGTL still ended up in 8th place. They just weren't good enough, and even Park couldn't save them.


True, but they were in a massive downward spiral after Round 3 when they seemed to be the laughing stock of PL. At least from Round 4 on, even if they lost a lot, at least they were dangerous to their opponents if they took them too lightly. Having a better training environment doesn't pay off immediately, it takes a few months. Most EGTL players improved during these months, but it wasn't enough to change anything. As you said, they just weren't good enough.
Cute
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
January 04 2014 13:05 GMT
#13
They really couldn't have done any worse than R3. Anything would have been an improvement lol. You guys really overdo it with the Oh Glorious Leader.
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5478 Posts
January 04 2014 13:09 GMT
#14
Pro tip for next time: Add pictures

Good write-up though.
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
January 04 2014 13:16 GMT
#15
On January 04 2014 22:05 StarStruck wrote:
They really couldn't have done any worse than R3. Anything would have been an improvement lol. You guys really overdo it with the Oh Glorious Leader.


No, but they could have performed similarly. They didn't, though. Whether you want to attribute that partly to their acquisition of Coach Park or only to the players is up to you, but the influence a good coach can have on a team is very obvious. Take a look at MVP this very season. Their new (ex-LoL) coach knows jack shit and it shows already, despite the fact that they've only had time to play two matches.
AdministratorBreak the chains
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-04 13:24:34
January 04 2014 13:23 GMT
#16
On January 04 2014 22:16 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 22:05 StarStruck wrote:
They really couldn't have done any worse than R3. Anything would have been an improvement lol. You guys really overdo it with the Oh Glorious Leader.


No, but they could have performed similarly. They didn't, though. Whether you want to attribute that partly to their acquisition of Coach Park or only to the players is up to you, but the influence a good coach can have on a team is very obvious. Take a look at MVP this very season. Their new (ex-LoL) coach knows jack shit and it shows already, despite the fact that they've only had time to play two matches.



Not true because look at the roster. There's enough talent over there that they couldn't have done any worse. Look, if I were in charge they would have performed just as well. Also, it's one week into the regular season. No point shitting on MVP yet.
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-04 13:37:21
January 04 2014 13:33 GMT
#17
On January 04 2014 22:23 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 22:16 Zealously wrote:
On January 04 2014 22:05 StarStruck wrote:
They really couldn't have done any worse than R3. Anything would have been an improvement lol. You guys really overdo it with the Oh Glorious Leader.


No, but they could have performed similarly. They didn't, though. Whether you want to attribute that partly to their acquisition of Coach Park or only to the players is up to you, but the influence a good coach can have on a team is very obvious. Take a look at MVP this very season. Their new (ex-LoL) coach knows jack shit and it shows already, despite the fact that they've only had time to play two matches.



Not true because look at the roster. There's enough talent over there that they couldn't have done any worse. Look, if I were in charge they would have performed just as well. Also, it's one week into the regular season. No point shitting on MVP yet.


I'll get neoghaleon to explain the situation with MVP because he knows it a lot better than I do (mostly because he speaks to the players with some frequency), but last I heard the MVP coach knows little about management and (close to) nothing about Starcraft. If you want to argue that a coach who can make intelligent decisions regarding match-ups, maps and snipers is no significant advantage over a coach who knows nothing of the sort then by all means, but I'm going to disagree.
AdministratorBreak the chains
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
January 04 2014 13:55 GMT
#18
On January 04 2014 22:33 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2014 22:23 StarStruck wrote:
On January 04 2014 22:16 Zealously wrote:
On January 04 2014 22:05 StarStruck wrote:
They really couldn't have done any worse than R3. Anything would have been an improvement lol. You guys really overdo it with the Oh Glorious Leader.


No, but they could have performed similarly. They didn't, though. Whether you want to attribute that partly to their acquisition of Coach Park or only to the players is up to you, but the influence a good coach can have on a team is very obvious. Take a look at MVP this very season. Their new (ex-LoL) coach knows jack shit and it shows already, despite the fact that they've only had time to play two matches.



Not true because look at the roster. There's enough talent over there that they couldn't have done any worse. Look, if I were in charge they would have performed just as well. Also, it's one week into the regular season. No point shitting on MVP yet.


I'll get neoghaleon to explain the situation with MVP because he knows it a lot better than I do (mostly because he speaks to the players with some frequency), but last I heard the MVP coach knows little about management and (close to) nothing about Starcraft. If you want to argue that a coach who can make intelligent decisions regarding match-ups, maps and snipers is no significant advantage over a coach who knows nothing of the sort then by all means, but I'm going to disagree.


You are basing it off of two matches though. One of which you knew MVP was going to lose in facing the Giants Telecom with that opening day line-up. Where you have Rain coming off a special event win with a lot of top Koreans and Parting coming off his WCG and Red Bull win (heck, PartinG was performing just as well as Rain last season). That's a brutal initiation into PL. As for the 3-1 lose to IM. Would it really have been any different if they lose 3-2? That's what best of fives give you.


As for the coaching (or lack there of). You have to give it more time. You guys were out of line when EG-TL weren't sweeping the competition. This is still very new to a lot of the players and there will be growing pains. Also, there is some crossover when it comes to the background of the coach and their skill set isn't just knowledge base of the game. They do all sorts of things to facilitate and motivate the players. It's not like he's completely in the dark or doing everything on his own. I'm sure the players give him plenty of input when it comes to the line-up. We're talking about horizontal leadership.

As for the coaches background. Sure having knowledge of the game is an asset, but that doesn't mean coaches don't come from different backgrounds or have something else to offer. Want an example? Barb Underhill is a world-class figure skater and look at what she does now. She's coaching NHL and would be NHL players how to improve their skating stride. If you have other qualities other than knowledge of the game and use the resources you have available to you (i.e. the players) then you can still be useful.
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