• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:36
CET 08:36
KST 16:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Which mirror match you like most or least? How much money terran looses from gas steal? Gypsy to Korea BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group C [ASL21] Ro24 Group B 2026 Changsha Offline Cup
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Cricket [SPORT] 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7523 users

Potential Ladder Map Changes

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
juicyjames *
Profile Joined August 2011
United States3815 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-18 00:14:26
May 15 2013 23:07 GMT
#1
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8796361461?page=7#122

Updated - 5:00 pm PDT - 5/17/2013: Star Station spawn positions have been updated. Players will now only spawn diagonally while playing on Star Station. No changes have been made to Klontas Mire; however, we will continue to monitor your feedback surrounding potential changes.


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8796361461

We have a discussion going on with the major tournaments around the world about making Star Station diagonal only spawn positions to make the map more fair in all the matchups. We'd like to get your feedback also before we make this change.

+ Show Spoiler [Image of Star Station] +
[image loading]


One other thing on maps is there was a really interesting suggestion for Klontas Mire. This map is turning out to be really rush friendly as expected, but one downside was that it also encourages timing all in attacks. So the suggestion was to add destructible towers on the bridge area so that early game rushes are still possible, but all in attacks are delayed in the early mid game.

+ Show Spoiler [Image of Klontas Mire] +
[image loading]


We know that most people think all 1v1 maps should be macro only and rush maps just don't work for tournament level play, but we'd really like to explore map variety which includes trying out different versions of rush maps.

-David Kim

Poll: Make Star Station cross-spawn only?

Approve (276)
 
88%

Disapprove (33)
 
11%

Neutral-prove (5)
 
2%

314 total votes

Your vote: Make Star Station cross-spawn only?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove


Poll: Add destructible towers to the bridge of Klontas Mire?

Approve (140)
 
59%

Neutral-prove (63)
 
27%

Disapprove (33)
 
14%

236 total votes

Your vote: Add destructible towers to the bridge of Klontas Mire?

(Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove

This Week in SC2Find out what happened 'This Week in Starcraft 2': http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278126
Rainmansc
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands216 Posts
May 15 2013 23:09 GMT
#2
Yes good post. I have no idea why star station isnt cross only.
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-15 23:10:03
May 15 2013 23:09 GMT
#3
...How do destructible towers delay midgame timing attacks?

What is Klontas Mire?
3 Hatch Before Cool
xAdra
Profile Joined July 2012
Singapore1858 Posts
May 15 2013 23:11 GMT
#4
I'd rather remove Star station altogether. The third is atrocious for protoss to take.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
May 15 2013 23:20 GMT
#5
They should just remove klontas. It's a nice effort to make a map that's not just "3 base, macro" but klontas is just another one of those idiotic "2 base all-in rush + 3rd base is ONE MILE AWAY" maps.

If they want to implement their concept well it should be maps with multiple attack paths, or special terrain features, like multiple ramps but short attack distance...something, anything other than "i just got to your base in 2 seconds" and "i can't expo past 2 base because my 3rd is all the way at the bottom of the map.

And 2 base rush maps should almost always be diagonal spawns not horizontal or vertical. That way it's more natural taking expansions.
Sup
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
May 15 2013 23:21 GMT
#6
On May 16 2013 08:09 -Kaiser- wrote:
...How do destructible towers delay midgame timing attacks?

What is Klontas Mire?



lol so you vetoed it too?

on point : fuck destructible stuff.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-15 23:23:27
May 15 2013 23:22 GMT
#7
My humble opinion as a mapmaker and TLMC judge:

If you can only make Star Station work in cross only then just remove it alltogether. All in all it's not such an interesting map to begin with so why bother limitating it so much just to somehow make it balanced when the whole layout is pretty shitty already.

On the other hand I think David Kim is completely right about trying out more aggressive maps as well to make sure we have map diversity. For far too long people were whining that everything should be macro, but especially at the end of WoL we have seen how boring it is when you see macro 40 minute games every game. Diversity of strategies and maps encouraging that is important for the game so I absolutely support them when they say they want to try sth here.
That Klontas will have a risky early game was always a concern I think that can only be clarified if pros play on it tho. There's a bunch of changes you could do not sure if Blizzard's approach with rocks makes much sense. I personally would rather remove some rocks at the bottom half and do some reworking there...

Now that said I think ultimately Blizzard shouldn't do any mapmaking themselves and leave it all to the community mapmakers and the great people from GSL/Kespa.

Hope to see some of the TLMC maps make it to ladder, it would be glorious guys, trust me
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Mistakes
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1102 Posts
May 15 2013 23:23 GMT
#8
I still say just remove that Klontas Mire POS. Adding rocks to the bridge and removing the rocks to make you able to expand downward easier would be nice if they were going to keep it though.
StarCraft | www.psistorm.com | www.twitter.com/MistakesSC | www.twitch.tv/MistakesSC | Seattle
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
May 15 2013 23:24 GMT
#9
How about get rid of two mediocre maps?
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
May 15 2013 23:27 GMT
#10
What the hell is the difference between being "rush friendly" and "encouraging all-ins"?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
r1flEx
Profile Joined October 2012
Belgium256 Posts
May 15 2013 23:30 GMT
#11
remove klontas mire. much better
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
May 15 2013 23:31 GMT
#12
Why do people just post map names and not give pictures as well 99% of the time on here? I can't tell if this is a good thing without 5 minutes of looking up maps...
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-15 23:33:28
May 15 2013 23:33 GMT
#13
--- Nuked ---
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
May 15 2013 23:38 GMT
#14
On May 16 2013 08:33 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2013 08:31 aksfjh wrote:
Why do people just post map names and not give pictures as well 99% of the time on here? I can't tell if this is a good thing without 5 minutes of looking up maps...

Because looking them up takes so long...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Star_Station
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Klontas_Mire

About as long as it takes to put them in the OP...
CrystalDrag
Profile Joined July 2010
173 Posts
May 15 2013 23:38 GMT
#15
Make a destructible bridge instead, so you can collapse the entire terrain bridge :3
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
May 16 2013 00:13 GMT
#16
Even tho it's kind of amusing to watch Protoss players rage when you get close positions as a Zerg, I think that non cross-only maps are pretty retarded cause it just makes early game a big gamble since you can't scout properly.
hundred thousand krouner
GHSTxJet
Profile Joined January 2012
United States154 Posts
May 16 2013 00:15 GMT
#17
How about just completely get rid of Klontas Mire forever.
SuppySon
synd
Profile Joined July 2011
Bulgaria586 Posts
May 16 2013 00:15 GMT
#18
Just remove them. They're both terrible.
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
Chad3131 Posts
May 16 2013 00:21 GMT
#19
why can't the community vote on maps they want in the pool, created by talented mapmakers and not blizzard?

Then, the mapmakers can be paid handsomely if their map is chosen.
-Kyo-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan1926 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-16 00:32:07
May 16 2013 00:31 GMT
#20
On May 16 2013 08:20 avilo wrote:
They should just remove klontas. It's a nice effort to make a map that's not just "3 base, macro" but klontas is just another one of those idiotic "2 base all-in rush + 3rd base is ONE MILE AWAY" maps.

If they want to implement their concept well it should be maps with multiple attack paths, or special terrain features, like multiple ramps but short attack distance...something, anything other than "i just got to your base in 2 seconds" and "i can't expo past 2 base because my 3rd is all the way at the bottom of the map.

And 2 base rush maps should almost always be diagonal spawns not horizontal or vertical. That way it's more natural taking expansions.


This. The game is quite silly for protoss right now. It's basically encouraging 2 base timings so you can avoid 3 base because of how terrible these maps are.

They REALLY, and I mean REALLY need to look to old Kespa maps for ideas on maps. I made a really long video on this a while ago and I'm quite sad I didn't highlight it. Maybe I'll make another video on kespa maps in the next week to highlight how amazing they were compared to what we're playing on right now. (attack pathing ramps etc)

If you don't understand how big of a deal this is simply think of this:
Protoss, Zerg, and Terran are all forced into certain play styles on certain maps. Moreover, these play styles more than likely favor one race over the others. If maps are not balanced well along each races strengths and weaknesses then you just end up with maps that completely favor one race over the other. You then step away from balancing the game and rely on maps to balance it(he lost map 1 so has to win map 2 cuz it favors him). However, blizzard is still here. They should not only be constantly balancing units, but the maps as well. They need to take this much more seriously considering it's some people's life and it matters.
Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/
TL+ Member
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
WardiTV Mondays #76
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 159
ProTech140
Livibee 72
StarCraft: Brood War
Zeus 3378
ToSsGirL 45
sorry 44
sSak 36
Shinee 27
Bale 23
Sharp 20
NotJumperer 17
GoRush 15
Nal_rA 12
[ Show more ]
SilentControl 6
League of Legends
JimRising 536
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0324
Other Games
ceh9105
Mew2King103
RuFF_SC246
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream70
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH307
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
KCM Race Survival
1h 24m
The PondCast
2h 24m
WardiTV Team League
4h 24m
BASILISK vs Team Liquid
OSC
4h 24m
OSC
10h 24m
Replay Cast
16h 24m
WardiTV Team League
1d 4h
Big Brain Bouts
1d 9h
Fjant vs SortOf
YoungYakov vs Krystianer
Reynor vs HeRoMaRinE
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
Platinum Heroes Events
2 days
BSL
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-24
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.