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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8796361461?page=7#122
Updated - 5:00 pm PDT - 5/17/2013: Star Station spawn positions have been updated. Players will now only spawn diagonally while playing on Star Station. No changes have been made to Klontas Mire; however, we will continue to monitor your feedback surrounding potential changes.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8796361461
We have a discussion going on with the major tournaments around the world about making Star Station diagonal only spawn positions to make the map more fair in all the matchups. We'd like to get your feedback also before we make this change. One other thing on maps is there was a really interesting suggestion for Klontas Mire. This map is turning out to be really rush friendly as expected, but one downside was that it also encourages timing all in attacks. So the suggestion was to add destructible towers on the bridge area so that early game rushes are still possible, but all in attacks are delayed in the early mid game. We know that most people think all 1v1 maps should be macro only and rush maps just don't work for tournament level play, but we'd really like to explore map variety which includes trying out different versions of rush maps. -David Kim
Poll: Make Star Station cross-spawn only?Approve (276) 88% Disapprove (33) 11% Neutral-prove (5) 2% 314 total votes Your vote: Make Star Station cross-spawn only? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
Poll: Add destructible towers to the bridge of Klontas Mire?Approve (140) 59% Neutral-prove (63) 27% Disapprove (33) 14% 236 total votes Your vote: Add destructible towers to the bridge of Klontas Mire? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
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Yes good post. I have no idea why star station isnt cross only.
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...How do destructible towers delay midgame timing attacks?
What is Klontas Mire?
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I'd rather remove Star station altogether. The third is atrocious for protoss to take.
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They should just remove klontas. It's a nice effort to make a map that's not just "3 base, macro" but klontas is just another one of those idiotic "2 base all-in rush + 3rd base is ONE MILE AWAY" maps.
If they want to implement their concept well it should be maps with multiple attack paths, or special terrain features, like multiple ramps but short attack distance...something, anything other than "i just got to your base in 2 seconds" and "i can't expo past 2 base because my 3rd is all the way at the bottom of the map.
And 2 base rush maps should almost always be diagonal spawns not horizontal or vertical. That way it's more natural taking expansions.
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On May 16 2013 08:09 -Kaiser- wrote:
...How do destructible towers delay midgame timing attacks?
What is Klontas Mire?
lol so you vetoed it too?
on point : fuck destructible stuff.
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My humble opinion as a mapmaker and TLMC judge:
If you can only make Star Station work in cross only then just remove it alltogether. All in all it's not such an interesting map to begin with so why bother limitating it so much just to somehow make it balanced when the whole layout is pretty shitty already.
On the other hand I think David Kim is completely right about trying out more aggressive maps as well to make sure we have map diversity. For far too long people were whining that everything should be macro, but especially at the end of WoL we have seen how boring it is when you see macro 40 minute games every game. Diversity of strategies and maps encouraging that is important for the game so I absolutely support them when they say they want to try sth here.
That Klontas will have a risky early game was always a concern I think that can only be clarified if pros play on it tho. There's a bunch of changes you could do not sure if Blizzard's approach with rocks makes much sense. I personally would rather remove some rocks at the bottom half and do some reworking there...
Now that said I think ultimately Blizzard shouldn't do any mapmaking themselves and leave it all to the community mapmakers and the great people from GSL/Kespa.
Hope to see some of the TLMC maps make it to ladder, it would be glorious guys, trust me 
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I still say just remove that Klontas Mire POS. Adding rocks to the bridge and removing the rocks to make you able to expand downward easier would be nice if they were going to keep it though.
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How about get rid of two mediocre maps?
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What the hell is the difference between being "rush friendly" and "encouraging all-ins"?
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remove klontas mire. much better
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Why do people just post map names and not give pictures as well 99% of the time on here? I can't tell if this is a good thing without 5 minutes of looking up maps...
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About as long as it takes to put them in the OP...
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Make a destructible bridge instead, so you can collapse the entire terrain bridge :3
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Even tho it's kind of amusing to watch Protoss players rage when you get close positions as a Zerg, I think that non cross-only maps are pretty retarded cause it just makes early game a big gamble since you can't scout properly.
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How about just completely get rid of Klontas Mire forever.
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Just remove them. They're both terrible.
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why can't the community vote on maps they want in the pool, created by talented mapmakers and not blizzard?
Then, the mapmakers can be paid handsomely if their map is chosen.
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Japan1926 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:20 avilo wrote:
They should just remove klontas. It's a nice effort to make a map that's not just "3 base, macro" but klontas is just another one of those idiotic "2 base all-in rush + 3rd base is ONE MILE AWAY" maps.
If they want to implement their concept well it should be maps with multiple attack paths, or special terrain features, like multiple ramps but short attack distance...something, anything other than "i just got to your base in 2 seconds" and "i can't expo past 2 base because my 3rd is all the way at the bottom of the map.
And 2 base rush maps should almost always be diagonal spawns not horizontal or vertical. That way it's more natural taking expansions.
This. The game is quite silly for protoss right now. It's basically encouraging 2 base timings so you can avoid 3 base because of how terrible these maps are.
They REALLY, and I mean REALLY need to look to old Kespa maps for ideas on maps. I made a really long video on this a while ago and I'm quite sad I didn't highlight it. Maybe I'll make another video on kespa maps in the next week to highlight how amazing they were compared to what we're playing on right now. (attack pathing ramps etc)
If you don't understand how big of a deal this is simply think of this:
Protoss, Zerg, and Terran are all forced into certain play styles on certain maps. Moreover, these play styles more than likely favor one race over the others. If maps are not balanced well along each races strengths and weaknesses then you just end up with maps that completely favor one race over the other. You then step away from balancing the game and rely on maps to balance it(he lost map 1 so has to win map 2 cuz it favors him). However, blizzard is still here. They should not only be constantly balancing units, but the maps as well. They need to take this much more seriously considering it's some people's life and it matters.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GGNpcOK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g0446gJ.jpg)
