Zerg wall-ins

porygon361

81 Posts

October 24 2012 09:11 GMT

ZERG WALLS

DENIED.

A guide to Zerg walls. More coming soon!

For those who do not know, a Zerg wall that does not require any units standing guard can be created. It can be made with 2 Evolution Chambers and a Spine/ Spore Crawler.

Wings of Liberty
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Complete Zerg Walls:
Version 1. This is the most efficient wall. All Zerg units can fit through.
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For ALL Zerg units to pass through, the minimum requirement is for the 2 Evolution Chambers to be 1 grid square apart diagonally, with a Spine crawler fitted snugly in the middle.

Version 2: The 'OH SHIT I'M GONNA DIE' version. It is as compact as it can get without a total wall-off. Only zergling-sized units can fit if it is opened.
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The 2 Evolution Chambers are placed corner-to-corner with a Spine crawler in the centre once again.

Version 3: The macro version. All Zerg units can fit through.
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Both Hacheries have the corner of their building grids touching each other, with a Spine crawler fitted in between. Might come in handy in the lategame.

Walls Version 1-3 are ABSOLUTELY zergling-tight when closed, costs no supply and no ground unit can bypass the wall without attacking into it. The Spine Crawler acts as a pseudo-depot and can be unburrowed to make way for your own units. For those worrying what this wall-in will do to the Zerg lategame, I assure you that ultras can fit through the first version of the wall-in when it is opened.

This wall plus a few ranged attackers at the back can be used to deflect zergling floods, hellion openings and zealot rushes effectively whilst researching on tech. To build it, just place a Spine crawler in between 2 Evolution Chambers (Make sure the side of the Spine crawler and Evolution Chamber are touching) . The second version of the wall limits the amount of melee units attacking the Spine to 1 Making it good for holding off ling pushes, but units bigger than zerglings, such as roaches and queens, are unable to fit through when opened

Using walls Version 1-3 as a reference, I have constructed a wall at the ramp.
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Looks different from the walls I mentioned earlier but still works. However, ultralisks are unable to fit through.

Note: The Spine crawlers cannot be placed next to a cliff, or it will allow small units like zerglings to pass through.
The placement of the Evolution Chambers and Spine crawlers depend on the map you are playing.

HOW IT WORKS

Zerg wall-in mechanics
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Spine crawlers have this weird hitbox that prevents it from being used as mobile siege walls.
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As you can see, the actual hitboxes of buildings are octagonal, not square as it may appear in the building grid.

When Spine crawlers are put next to each other, even though it may look like a complete wall-in, the weird hitbox allows many units to pass through, including but not limited to, roaches, queens, stalkers, hellions etc. However, when the Spine crawler is put next to an Evolution chamber, the gap between the two is so negligible that no unit, not even the slippery zergling, will be able to breach the defences.

The Hatchery's hitbox is just a scale-up of and Evolution Chamber's. The empty spaces in the corners of the building grid are also larger, so you would have to make necessary adjustments to the placement of the Spine crawler if attempting to use a hatchery for a wall.
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Credit to Orek for the image

Complete Wall-ins
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The arrows also represent the number of zerglings that can attack the Spine crawler at a time.

Incomplete Wall-ins
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Zerglings can leak throught these walls.

Legend:
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Other walls:
Version 4: The Hellion Filter. The Spine crawler allows the zerglings and workers to pass through, but not those fat hellions.
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Lets your workers/zerglings run past the wall when closed, but not units like queens, roaches, hellions etc.
I need to research more on this.
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Credit to nick00bot for the Hellion filter picture and Magwado for mentioning it to me.

Implications of walls in ZvX matchups

ZvT
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These walls are made particularly to keep hellions outside your base and away from your drones, where your queens can outrange them. Hellion filters will also work in this matchup, although marines can run through the wall. A few Spores can also help in the wall to keep cloaked banshee play from ruining your wall.

ZvP
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This wall can easily hold off a 2-gate zealot rush and, in theory, the wall and some queens and spines can be used to hold off a 4-gating Protoss long enough for roaches to appear on the scene. In the mid-lategame, infestors can be used to chain-fungal the Protoss when they try to push up the ramp, while sniping important units like Collosus with corruptors.

ZvZ
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This matchup is where walls really shines. Any early pressure from your opponent (not sure about a roach rush) will be completely and utterly denied if your wall is not denied, while you continue to macro up and get a substantial drone lead if your opponent over-extends on units. Also prevents zergling run-bys in any stage of the game, especially in the lategame, where an infestor/corruptor/broodlord army would be too slow to get back to defend.

HotS BALANCE PATCH #7
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Zerg

Spine Crawler
This unit now completely blocks pathing when placed next to other structures, including other Spine Crawlers.
Zerglings and other small units can no longer squeeze in between Spine Crawlers.
The scale of this unit has been increased from 0.85 to 0.95.

Poll: Do you like the new Spine crawler update?

Its so good! No more runbys! (23)

58%

Blizzard is trying to make mech viable, and they add this to stop hellions? I hate it. (9)

23%

Mixed feelings. (8)

20%

40 total votes

Your vote: Do you like the new Spine crawler update?

(Vote): Its so good! No more runbys!
(Vote): Mixed feelings.
(Vote): Blizzard is trying to make mech viable, and they add this to stop hellions? I hate it.

Please state your honest opinion.

Spine crawlers have their hitboxes increased, and now zerglings cannot fit through 2 Spine crawlers when placed side-by-side. I will do further testing on the implications of walling after my research is complete.

Since Spine crawlers have a larger hitbox, Spine crawlers should be positioned carefully in the mineral line if the player wishes to do so. Side effects for poor Spine crawler placement in the mineral line is including but not limited to: Lower income, blocked pathing and wasted minerals in the Spine crawler.

"Why would I use a Spore to wall? It doesn't attack the units I'm trying to wall-off from."

The simple fact is, that Spore crawlers have +100 more health than Spine crawlers AKA same health as supply depots, only 25 minerals cheaper! Coupled with a few Spine crawlers in the back, it can shoot both air and ground with detection. In the mid-late game, it will prevent zealots/ DTs from running right into your main and killing workers while dealing significant damage to the force before your army arrives.

"Hmm... I already have 2 Evolution Chambers and I don't want anymore... Solution?"

Any Zerg tech structure, bar the Spire, can be used as part of the wall-off, although more important tech structures should remain inside the base.

"This is @#*&shit! This wall doesn't even work etc.

Leave this thread immediately and try it yourself. If you are still unconvinced, forget you ever read this.

"This wall sucks... I know a better one."

This is the kind of constructive criticisms I want! If you have anything to add, kindly make a post about it in this thread. Make sure you got your facts straight before posting!

Even though this wall is known by some Zergs, they are hardly utilized. More Zergs should try to adopt this for early-game defence, especially against the reactored hellion opening in ZvT. This thread is open to discussion about other (effective) Zerg walls. May us Zergs wall like Terran...

ZERG... UNITE!

Credit to LiquidTLO for inspiring me to try out Zerg walls after holding off a Baneling all-in with one.

HighLach

United States132 Posts

October 24 2012 09:18 GMT

Awesome, I have always been frustrated by the spine crawler letting in zerglings, hellions, and any other unit. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out soon.

TBO

Germany1350 Posts

October 24 2012 10:09 GMT

Hm isn't spine crawler+evo always tight? just tested it again and only spine+spine or spine+spore and spore+spore let units through.
From my testing it doesn't matter if it is diagonal or not.

MateShade

Australia736 Posts

October 24 2012 10:11 GMT

What? how is this new??

also:

'More Zergs should try this and adopt it for early-game defence, especially with the reactored hellion opening coming into play in ZvT'

Reactored hellion COMING into play? I feel like this thread was written 2 years ago and got necro'd but no.. :/

porygon361

81 Posts

October 24 2012 10:23 GMT

On October 24 2012 19:09 TBO wrote:
Hm isn't spine crawler+evo always tight? just tested it again and only spine+spine or spine+spore and spore+spore let units through.
From my testing it doesn't matter if it is diagonal or not.

Thanks for telling me

*edits post*

On October 24 2012 19:11 MateShade wrote:
What? how is this new??

also:

'More Zergs should try this and adopt it for early-game defence, especially with the reactored hellion opening coming into play in ZvT'

Reactored hellion COMING into play? I feel like this thread was written 2 years ago and got necro'd but no.. :/

Sorry for the poor English. I will be sure to correct that in my post.

My point still stands. Many (low level) Zergs do not know about this technique. Those that do know do not utilize it much (as far as I've seen). I would like to see more Zerg wall action during matches with other Zergs

Discussion is still open for ideas for other Zerg walls.

Orek

1665 Posts

October 24 2012 12:12 GMT

I'm gonna give constructive criticism, but before that, let me first thank you for sharing your work. I have written multiple guides/articles myself, so I understand that it takes more effort to be an OP than most people imagine. Thanks for your time and effort put into this.

That said, here are some advice/criticism I give you:
First, it seems you read "TL.net Ten Commandments" from your post history, but you also should have read SC2 Strategy Forum Guidelines before posting this. The title lacks required tag. I'm not sure if this thread qualifies as [G], but at least [D] should have been added. Once uploaded, only a moderator can edit the title upon/without your request.

Also, while I appreciate your work, the research isn't nearly thorough enough to be of much use. 3 pictures are not enough for people to understand the concept you wanted to deliver. I am being a little too harsh because I also posted Zerg wall-in/grid related threads before. Check [G] Zerg Sim City for Spire protection in ZvP and [G] ZvT Perfect Spine placement vs 2rax Bunker. I assure you that I probably understand your grid argument far better than other people because I too have spent tons of hours experimenting grids and even footprints with map editor as evidenced in the mentioned threads. However, even I have hard time fully comprehending the content in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to boast of my works, but adapting some of the ideas I used in those threads would enhance the quality of this thread as well. Have you thought of using Excel spreadsheet to show structure grids? Have you thought of introducing x-y coordinates to denote the relative positioning of buildings? Or, have you thought of testing wall-ins on natural expansions on all ladder maps? As a semi-perfectionist OP, this thread's work so far looks only about 30% done if I were to write the same thing. Not enough research was carried out, not enough thoughts were given on delivery method.The topic itself has so much potential. I turst your "More coming soon." Sorry if I sounded like a douche bag, but this was my honest opinion.

porygon361

81 Posts

October 24 2012 12:44 GMT

On October 24 2012 21:12 Orek wrote:
I'm gonna give constructive criticism, but before that, let me first thank you for sharing your work. I have written multiple guides/articles myself, so I understand that it takes more effort to be an OP than most people imagine. Thanks for your time and effort put into this.

That said, here are some advice/criticism I give you:
First, it seems you read "TL.net Ten Commandments" from your post history, but you also should have read SC2 Strategy Forum Guidelines before posting this. The title lacks required tag. I'm not sure if this thread qualifies as [G], but at least [D] should have been added. Once uploaded, only a moderator can edit the title upon/without your request.

Also, while I appreciate your work, the research isn't nearly thorough enough to be of much use. 3 pictures are not enough for people to understand the concept you wanted to deliver. I am being a little too harsh because I also posted Zerg wall-in/grid related threads before. Check [G] Zerg Sim City for Spire protection in ZvP and [G] ZvT Perfect Spine placement vs 2rax Bunker. I assure you that I probably understand your grid argument far better than other people because I too have spent tons of hours experimenting grids and even footprints with map editor as evidenced in the mentioned threads. However, even I have hard time fully comprehending the content in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to boast of my works, but adapting some of the ideas I used in those threads would enhance the quality of this thread as well. Have you thought of using Excel spreadsheet to show structure grids? Have you thought of introducing x-y coordinates to denote the relative positioning of buildings? Or, have you thought of testing wall-ins on natural expansions on all ladder maps? As a semi-perfectionist OP, this thread's work so far looks only about 30% done if I were to write the same thing. Not enough research was carried out, not enough thoughts were given on delivery method.The topic itself has so much potential. I turst your "More coming soon." Sorry if I sounded like a douche bag, but this was my honest opinion.

I completely agree, I should provide more material and explanation. Like I said, I like this constructive criticism

I was kind of making this post in a rush, so I did not fully express most of the details. I will try to add more details and explanations when I have time.

P.S Your Zerg Sim cities are awesome, and I should probably try the Greater Spire Sim city myself. Thanks for the critique once again!

Edit: However, I am not very good with Excel spreadsheet. I probably have to go learn how to do what you did in your other threads. Well, first time for everything!

Brainiac_Br

Brazil14 Posts

October 24 2012 13:45 GMT

Nice tip, but how many creep tumors need to make the building placement on the ramp? (nat ramp for FEs)

Brainyac

Germany199 Posts

October 24 2012 13:52 GMT

On October 24 2012 22:45 Brainiac_Br wrote:
Nice tip, but how many creep tumors need to make the building placement on the ramp? (nat ramp for FEs)

You need at least one.?!

porygon361

81 Posts

October 24 2012 14:48 GMT

#10

On October 24 2012 22:52 Brainyac wrote:

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You need at least one.?!

What he said. At least enough to cover the top of the ramp so you can lay down buildings. It should be easy against hellion openings considering the number of queens you will get by then. However, this is not just limited to ramps. On certain maps (eg. Cloud Kingdom), the choke at the natural is the perfect spot for a wall. A creep tumor spread by the first queen will be able to spread creep onto the choke and you will be able to block off your natural from any early rush (should you scout one).

Magwado

11 Posts

October 24 2012 14:57 GMT

#11

nice work
a small addition to your guide: you can also mention the Hellion Filter

KhaliWear

Canada159 Posts

October 24 2012 15:38 GMT

#12

Zerg make walls, like the Spartans did in 300.

Nuclease

United States1049 Posts

October 24 2012 18:43 GMT

#13

LOL wrong thread sorry about that.

Siwelcela

United States87 Posts

October 24 2012 21:43 GMT

#14

TY for the guide i never really thought about this even though i was aware! Now i have a way to stop losing so early to mech playing terrans and there run bys when my queens are out dropping tumors.

HypertonicHydroponic

437 Posts

October 25 2012 00:00 GMT

#15

Orek... just Yiiikes! I think the concept is pretty simple, and easily understood, but there probably could be more thought given in the OP. For example, does this work for all match ups? I'm pretty sure this doesn't work in ZvZ, where your opponent has the same kind of units. I've tried some walls in the past, and I remember the opponents lings getting through some of them.

minnek

United States6 Posts

October 25 2012 00:04 GMT

#16

I wanted to let you know that thanks to this guide, I just won a ZvZ (my lowest winrate matchup). It kept me safe while I macroed up at my natural, and kept the zergling/baneling aggression away.

The three images were definitely enough for me to understand the workings behind this - spine against evo creates a tight seal, and putting a square between evo chambers allows you to move any Z unit through that gap once the spine is uprooted. I like the ling-tight squeeze of the corner-to-corner evo chambers too - I haven't used that one yet but from experience I'm certain it'll work as described. Good tip on the spore crawler health too, I never noticed that - even better for walls!

This is a great guide to something I hadn't even considered before. Thank you!

porygon361

81 Posts

October 25 2012 02:08 GMT

#17

On October 25 2012 09:00 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
Orek... just Yiiikes! I think the concept is pretty simple, and easily understood, but there probably could be more thought given in the OP. For example, does this work for all match ups? I'm pretty sure this doesn't work in ZvZ, where your opponent has the same kind of units. I've tried some walls in the past, and I remember the opponents lings getting through some of them.

This wall works completely fine in ZvZ. When the Spine is burrowed in the entrance between the evolution chambers, no Zerg unit can pass through, but you can unburrow the Spine to let all Zerg units pass through if the wall was done right. The wall does work in ALL matchups, and no unit can pass through when it is closed, not even zerglings.

I'm glad that some Zergs here are incorporating walls into their strategies now and I hope it changes the reactored hellion opening metagame

HypertonicHydroponic

437 Posts

October 25 2012 04:54 GMT

#18

On October 25 2012 11:08 porygon361 wrote:

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It's possible that the wall I attempted included the hatchery which has more space around the corners -- you should probably include the versions of this that work with a hatchery, as well as those that do not work, hatchery or otherwise.