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Grad School: Biology PhD Part 3

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Zaranth
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States345 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-16 04:18:44
October 15 2012 08:58 GMT
#1

Grad School

Part 3


Introduction

Hello fellow TL netizens. I'm Zaranth, and I'm going to be sharing my graduate school know-how with you and this is the Part 3: The Interviews, with 2 more parts to follow!

You can find Part 1 here!

And Part 2 here!


This is it


You’ve sent out your applications and a few schools have invited you for interviews. What do you wear? How should you prep? What should you pay attention to while you’re at the school?

Note before we begin: The school should pay your way to the interview weekend. They should also provide a hotel room (though you’ll probably have to share). Being given an interview means the school is definitely interested in accepting you, but they need to verify that you are who you say you are in your application.


Overview


Interviews usually last for three days. Typically, you’ll arrive on Thursday and have a nice meal with a few select students and professors. You’ll be greeted by the dean and talked at briefly, then sent off to bed to prepare for the next day.

Friday is the gauntlet. You’ll have to get up really early. You will get breakfast, and then a student guide will collect you. This guide will show you around campus and make sure you don’t get lost on your way to your interviews. You’ll interview with at least 4 faculty, and possibly up to 8, with lunch in there somewhere. There may be student talks, lab walkthroughs, and other fact-giving sessions. The dean will probably talk to you again and pimp the school as much as possible. After your brain has turned to mush, you’ll get a few hours break before a fancy dinner. At this dinner, you’ll be able to interact with more students and faculty. There may be an after party hosted by the graduate students. You should fall into bed exhausted and mostly sober around 11 or midnight.

Saturday is tour day. You may get a tour of the school, of the city, of student residences, or some other local amusement. Then you’ll fly home in the afternoon.

If you are not completely exhausted after one of these weekends, you’re not doing it right.


Attire


Call me old fashioned, but you should dress formally for this occasion. Pull out that suit that you wore to your cousin’s wedding. Shine your shoes. Trim your hair. Shave your stubble. You are representing yourself in a professional environment. Act professional.

On Thursday, arrive with business casual attire. Nice slacks and a button-up top should suffice. You will be making your first impression to your fellow interviewees and to some of the VIPs of the grad school administration, so behave.

On Friday, bust out the suit. Rock it. Store an extra water bottle in the hidden inside pocket. Maybe even a granola bar or two. You’re going to be mentally beaten down throughout the day, so it’s important to plan ahead. There may be 6 or 7 hours between breakfast and lunch. Take any sustenance you think you’ll need. For Friday evening, you can lose the jacket, but keep the nice pants and shirt. You never know, you might end up shaking hands with a Nobel Laureate.

For Saturday, tour day, casual is fine. Keep in mind you’re still on trial, though.


Your Student Guide


Think of your student guide as a valuable resource. Ask them a lot of questions about the school, the faculty, the coursework, the salary, the funding, parking, etc. They will be honest with you, and they’ve got the first-hand experience. You will get the real story from them. Ask them how many hours they work in a week, what their weekends are like, what the city is like, what rent is like, and how long it really takes until graduation.


The Interviews


At each school, you will be interviewed by at least 4 faculty, and sometimes up to 8. These interviews will be in a row, with 5-10 minutes between. You’ll have enough time to catch your breath and use the restroom, but not much more than that. It’s important to be prepared for each interview. Most schools will try to match you up with professors in your field of interest. Some schools ask you for a few names of faculty you’re interested in meeting. Either way, you should have a list of the faculty you will speak to before you arrive at the school. Use this information to your advantage. Go to the school’s website and search for each faculty. Read their pages and take some notes. Come up with a few questions that you can ask them about their research. It’s also wise to ask them how they like the school, and what they think of the environment.

The best thing you can do in these interviews is ask a question about the faculty’s research. Usually, professors love to talk about their research, and it’s possible to spend the whole interview listening to the faculty member talk. Act interested in what they are saying, and they’ll think you’re a great candidate.

Be prepared to answer questions about yourself. Know why you want to go to grad school, and why you are interviewing at that particular institution. Know the specifics of your undergrad research project, and be prepared to explain the how and why of the experiments you are currently doing. If you had an internship, be prepared to answer questions about what you did there. If you are currently working, you may get questions about your job responsibilities and why you want to leave to come back to school.

If you feel that the conversation is starting to drag, don’t be afraid to point out highlights on your application. Most likely, the professor hasn’t taken a good look at it. It’s fine to point out that you won first place in your undergrad poster competition, or that you were elected president of the biology club, or that you can run a sub 5-minute mile and enjoy hiking on the weekends. Present yourself as an interesting, well-rounded candidate with a passion for basic science research. You gotta do a little self-pimping sometimes.


Student Talks and the Dean’s Presentation


At some time during the interview day, you’ll get to listen to presentations given by the dean and current graduate students. The dean (or someone similarly high up the tree) will give a presentation showcasing the school and why you want to come there for graduate school. There will be a lot of facts and figures in this presentation. Things to pay special attention to: student stipend and how that stipend is earned, health insurance, housing, length of typical grad student’s career, grants awarded to faculty, and number of students in each incoming class. Let’s break these things down.

(i) Stipend - obviously, this is how much you will get paid. See the “Money” section below for more info here.

(ii) Health Insurance - you may not think about it now, but it’s an important part of life. See “Money” section below for more info.

(iii) Housing - Is there grad student housing? If not, where are you expected to live? What’s the cost of an apartment around the university? If this is not announced, ask!

(iv) Length of Stay - Of course the goal of getting into grad school is eventually getting out! How long does it take the average student to graduate? If the number is above 6 years, think hard about going to this school. That means (if you’re a senior in college) you’ll be 28 or so before you can be called Doctor. That’s a long time!

(v) Grants - Care about this information because it has a direct bearing on the amount of money the university has. If they brag about the number of RO1s awarded (big money grants), and the number of HHMI (Howard Hughes Medical Institute) investigators they have, awesome! If not, pin a red flag to the school.

(vi) Number of Students per class - This number should be stable from year to year. I mention this again in things to look for, but if the number of students is unstable, that’s a warning sign that the school doesn’t have admission under control.

You should have the opportunity to view one or more student talks. Pick whatever talk sounds interesting to you and go there. The school will intentionally pick successful grad students to give these talks, so don’t read too much into them. Get a feel for the type of research that is happening and enjoy the talks.


Money


In the United States, biology graduate students earn a stipend. Usually, your first year will be paid for by the university, and from your second year on you will be supported by grants, fellowships, and/or teaching. Your stipend will depend on your surroundings, since the amount of the stipend is usually determined by the cost of living. Because my school is close to Boston, MA, the stipend for grad students here is $30,000. (Yes, this is high. We like to think we are competing with Harvard and MIT.) A friend of mine at the University of Michigan gets $28,500. However, it can be as low as $15,000 (rural South Carolina, thanks to Niflheim for the info!). You can make more if you get a fellowship, since they can be in addition to your stipend. All this information will be given to you at the interview weekend, and it may be something you need to take into consideration when you choose which school to attend. Obviously, you are going into grad school, so prepare to be poor, but it’s not like you’ll have to dumpster dive for old furniture or eat Ramen constantly for the next 6 years.

I found this website that lists stipends for about 100 US graduate schools (though it’s a bit out of date, I would add $1-2,000 to these values. It lists UMass at $28,350 and we’re now at $30,000). http://www.wendychao.com/science/stipends/2009-10.html


Health Insurance


Something that goes along with the stipend is health insurance. Make sure you know the school’s policy on this. Some schools include health, vision and dental, some make you purchase vision and/or dental. If you have a spouse or significant other who needs insurance, you will probably pay a fee to get them on your plan. The plans will most likely be limited in their coverage. You’ll want to know the details of this.


Loss of Funding/PI moves


What if your PI loses funding, or decides to move to another university? These types of details may not seem important at the time, but they can be critical if this happens to you. Check to see if the university will still pay you if your PI loses funding. Although it might seem like tenured professors stick around forever, it’s not the case. There can be a lot of movement between universities. Check out the school’s policy on that as well. Are you expected to move with your PI, or can you stay at the school and change labs? Hopefully you will never have to deal with these issues, but on the off chance that you do, it is good to be prepared!

The After Party



Usually there is a party after the interview day. You’ll get a fancy meal first (ours occur at the local art museum). Then you’ll have the chance for a little recreation. There will be booze. Lots and lots of booze. Interview weekends are parties for current students and faculty. In order to convince students to participate, they are bribed with a fancy meal and free drinks. You, as the interviewee, need to rein it in at the afterparty. I suggest that you do go to the party - after all, it’s a great place to see faculty and students let loose. You’ll get a different idea about the quality of life at the school. Plus, the grad students are still watching! Hang out, have one or two drinks. Do not get drunk. This is a big minus on your record. We have had instances when students were not accepted to the school because they drank way too much and got sick in front of faculty. Not a good idea. Moderation, my friends!


What you want to see


A good sign at any university is construction. If there is construction, either repair work or new buildings, the school has cash to spend.

Happy grad students. If the grad students are tired, haggard, and unenthusiastic, think twice about going to the school.

Young Faculty. Young faculty indicates that the school is hiring, which means they have money. Young faculty tend to be more collaborative and also more fun. They were grad students not too long ago, and they should have reasonable expectations regarding lab work.

Nice lab facilities. Most of us don’t want to work in a dungeon. Sunlight is nice!


What you don’t want to see


Irritated grad students. Expect the grad students to do a certain amount of complaining. If there is an excessive amount, it may not all be in jest.

Exclusively old faculty. If the school doesn’t have a lot of young faculty, it’s a sign that things have not been well. Expect a stricter, more rigid atmosphere.

Old, musty labs. Not only does this lower your desire to be at work, experiments can be at risk!

Second year students still looking for labs. This means there is not enough space at the school; they have accepted more students than they have room for. Check the class size, and make sure that the past few classes have been about the same size. Otherwise, there might not be space for new students!


International Students


Lucky you - most of you will be able to skip this whole process! Most schools won’t pay for international flights. You may have to do a phone interview, but sometimes you are spared even that! If you do have a phone interview, be prepared to ask a lot of questions about the school. This may be your only chance to get detailed information before you make your final choice.


Overall, remember that you are at the interview weekend for a purpose. If the school was not interested in you, they would not have invited you to come. Getting an invite is no longer a shoe-in, either. Do your legwork, dress well, and behave like an adult. Everything should flow from there. Go with your gut. If you get a good vibe from the school, keep it among your candidates. If you get bad vibes, cross it off the list (even if it’s your top choice). You will be in this place for the next six years or so. It’s important to make the right decision now, before it’s too late.

*Editor's Note: Feel free to ask Zaranth anything about the topic in the thread and apologies to Zaranth for taking so long to get this post out again! But she has been really awesome and besides putting this post into the format, it's all her!

Brought to you by the TL Knowhow Team
Written by: Zaranth
Edited by: MightyAtom
Maker of Cheerfuls @eZaranth
andeh
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States904 Posts
October 15 2012 23:59 GMT
#2
Love reading these, even those grad school is probably out of the question for myself
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
October 17 2012 00:21 GMT
#3
Good read. Good information in here.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
Ender985
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain910 Posts
October 18 2012 21:38 GMT
#4
Great info, thanks for the writeup! It's quite different to my own experience here in Barcelona though, we have a less formal approach to the interviewing process, but it may also be because of my PI's style.

BTW, when you talk about money, is it before or after tax? And if it is before tax, how much does the tax cut take approx? Thanks!
Member of the Pirate Party - direct democracy, institutional transparency, and freedom of information
Zaranth
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States345 Posts
October 19 2012 16:36 GMT
#5
Oh good question! The salary is before tax. Expect to pay about 15% tax for the PhD salary range (in the US).
Maker of Cheerfuls @eZaranth
Arkqn
Profile Joined August 2008
France589 Posts
October 21 2012 15:00 GMT
#6
Great Read. The US format for grad school is so, so different from here. It looks really hard to get a PhD out there.

Also, I was wondering how much is the standard salary range for a american grad student ?
Elena[PaiN]
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
October 23 2012 19:24 GMT
#7
for biology salary is 20k - 30k probably. depends on the program and where it's based.

no need to really wear a suit during the interviews. business casual is fine. only about one student out of twenty-five wears a full suit when we interview and it doesn't make a difference.
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-23 23:34:47
October 23 2012 23:32 GMT
#8
I was looking to do a masters in molecualr biology but I stopped when I realized what the money would be during and after. My prospective PI still wants me back and they're putting my name on the paper since I did a ton of research already for it, but I just can't go do academics anymore which sucks because I've been about science my whole life ._> $2 an hour for 40-50hr weeks + working at home researching papers??? "raised" up to 8$ for masters degree (before you subtract tuition and all that of course)? I mean its not necessarily all about the money but also the time invested, the time aspect is huge

Sometimes I feel like I was more or less lied to or misinformed during high school as to the rewards of bachelors in science in university. Now its like I need a masters degree to be significant, but I feel like after that it'll be I need a phd to be significant. I think I need to get out ASAP and do something else because personally it isn't for me. It is a fairly common idea around where I live although there are quite a number who enjoy grad school as far as I could tell. Have you ever felt this way or known anyone else who has? Biology students at my uni seemed happier as well despite having the older building so maybe its different in that faculty.

Posts like this are great, thank you for making them ^>^
hihihi
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
October 24 2012 07:54 GMT
#9
Kind of surprised about the interview days -- in chemistry, once you are invited to these things, your application is 100% accepted. I couldn't imagine the atmosphere being chill if you're viewing the other prospectives as competition.

How do quals work in biology? Are there typically a set of tests you have to pass before getting candidacy? (The format of the qualifying exams did impact my eventual grad school choice, I think its definitely worth clarifying the school's policy during the visits.)
?
Zaranth
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States345 Posts
October 24 2012 14:36 GMT
#10
@ askTeivospy: I think it really depends on what your goals are in life. There are a lot of positions you can get with a BS in biology, but you're looking for something more competitive or high-paying, you'll need the additional education. Then again, there are always ways to get the experience you need. Sometimes picking the right path for you is really hard.

I know a lot of people who like grad school, and then again I know those people who are tired of it. I think it has to do with time - the earlier on in your grad career, the happier you are. As your time in the lab begins to drag on and on, your happiness decreases. This is a general trend, imo.

@ 419: I'll be posting all about quals in Part 4, and all about careers in part 5. They will be coming soon.
Maker of Cheerfuls @eZaranth
danana
Profile Joined March 2011
United States321 Posts
October 24 2012 22:25 GMT
#11
On October 24 2012 16:54 419 wrote:
Kind of surprised about the interview days -- in chemistry, once you are invited to these things, your application is 100% accepted. I couldn't imagine the atmosphere being chill if you're viewing the other prospectives as competition.


I just got back from my first MSTP (combined MD/PhD) interview, which is a sort of different experience but has a similar level of competition (getting an interview is a good sign but hardly an indication of acceptance). I have to say that even though it's highly competitive the atmosphere was quite relaxed and friendly. Perhaps a part of this was the school itself being laid-back, but I found all the other interviewees to be extraordinarily supportive and friendly.
iNbluE
Profile Joined January 2011
Switzerland674 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-25 12:51:56
October 25 2012 12:51 GMT
#12
Hehe funny, I'm currently looking for a PhD in cancer biology. I got an interview coming up at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. Wish me luck!

By the way, your blogs are awesome. Funny to see how different it is over here. In Geneva, the interviews were so laid back (pizza and beers during the PIs presentations ftw).
ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
6xFPCs
Profile Joined April 2009
United States412 Posts
October 25 2012 21:33 GMT
#13
On October 24 2012 16:54 419 wrote:
Kind of surprised about the interview days -- in chemistry, once you are invited to these things, your application is 100% accepted. I couldn't imagine the atmosphere being chill if you're viewing the other prospectives as competition.



Interestingly, most chem programs call it a "recruitment", while bio programs call it an "interview", which speaks to that each difference. However, the acceptance rate is 80-90% for grad school interviews (I asked around, admin staff gave me a straight answer), so it's still relatively relaxed. Med school friends tell me their interview acceptance rate is about 50%--I imagine that sets a whole different tone.

How do quals work in biology? Are there typically a set of tests you have to pass before getting candidacy? (The format of the qualifying exams did impact my eventual grad school choice, I think its definitely worth clarifying the school's policy during the visits.)


For my program (large uni in CA), there're quals at the end of the second year to advance to candidacy. The other programs I looked at (all in CA) sounded like the same kind of deal. Most require an oral defense, as well. It doesn't seem like there is a lot of variation.
In chemistry, I believe that some programs do cumulative exams in place of a single qualifying exam, right? So there may be more variation in non-bio sciences.
6xFPCs
Profile Joined April 2009
United States412 Posts
October 25 2012 21:39 GMT
#14
On October 24 2012 08:32 askTeivospy wrote:
I was looking to do a masters in molecualr biology but I stopped when I realized what the money would be during and after. My prospective PI still wants me back and they're putting my name on the paper since I did a ton of research already for it, but I just can't go do academics anymore which sucks because I've been about science my whole life ._> $2 an hour for 40-50hr weeks + working at home researching papers??? "raised" up to 8$ for masters degree (before you subtract tuition and all that of course)? I mean its not necessarily all about the money but also the time invested, the time aspect is huge

Sometimes I feel like I was more or less lied to or misinformed during high school as to the rewards of bachelors in science in university. Now its like I need a masters degree to be significant, but I feel like after that it'll be I need a phd to be significant. I think I need to get out ASAP and do something else because personally it isn't for me. It is a fairly common idea around where I live although there are quite a number who enjoy grad school as far as I could tell. Have you ever felt this way or known anyone else who has? Biology students at my uni seemed happier as well despite having the older building so maybe its different in that faculty.

Posts like this are great, thank you for making them ^>^


Are you in the US? Most US hard science programs combine the masters and PhD in their PhD programs, and they pay for your tuition, plus give you a stipend to cover living expenses. So you can get the PhD program benefits (i.e. get paid like you had a masters) from the get-go, without getting a masters separately and at the lower pay and paying tuition for it.

If you're questioning things, though, make sure you think it through. I took a couple years off to work as a tech first to make sure I could stomach doing research full-time. Grad school is a big commitment.

Best of luck.
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
October 27 2012 14:22 GMT
#15
On October 25 2012 21:51 iNbluE wrote:
Hehe funny, I'm currently looking for a PhD in cancer biology. I got an interview coming up at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. Wish me luck!

By the way, your blogs are awesome. Funny to see how different it is over here. In Geneva, the interviews were so laid back (pizza and beers during the PIs presentations ftw).

That reminds me of a prospective that passed out on one of the faculty's couches during the interview due to being hungover. This being chemistry, it didn't affect his admission to the program (not that I'd suggest drinking oneself to that point during the visit is a particularly good idea).

Also, to be fair, it happens to be a very comfortable couch.
?
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
November 03 2012 19:45 GMT
#16
On October 26 2012 06:33 6xFPCs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 16:54 419 wrote:
Kind of surprised about the interview days -- in chemistry, once you are invited to these things, your application is 100% accepted. I couldn't imagine the atmosphere being chill if you're viewing the other prospectives as competition.



Interestingly, most chem programs call it a "recruitment", while bio programs call it an "interview", which speaks to that each difference. However, the acceptance rate is 80-90% for grad school interviews (I asked around, admin staff gave me a straight answer), so it's still relatively relaxed. Med school friends tell me their interview acceptance rate is about 50%--I imagine that sets a whole different tone.

Show nested quote +
How do quals work in biology? Are there typically a set of tests you have to pass before getting candidacy? (The format of the qualifying exams did impact my eventual grad school choice, I think its definitely worth clarifying the school's policy during the visits.)


For my program (large uni in CA), there're quals at the end of the second year to advance to candidacy. The other programs I looked at (all in CA) sounded like the same kind of deal. Most require an oral defense, as well. It doesn't seem like there is a lot of variation.
In chemistry, I believe that some programs do cumulative exams in place of a single qualifying exam, right? So there may be more variation in non-bio sciences.


Though I am not in the hard sciences in my anthropology PhD program I just started we have comprehensive exams which have written and oral components then you have to defend your dissertation proposal to gain candidacy.
Never Knows Best.
Nikoras
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States115 Posts
November 04 2012 20:36 GMT
#17
I'm having such a hard time trying to think of additional schools to apply to. I have one PhD program in mind, but I don't want to go all in with it. I'm banking on my GPA in my master's program making up for my undergrad GPA so looking at Cell Bio PhD rankings doesn't really help me because I assume I'm not getting into the top programs. Ugh this is so stressful I don't know what to do.
iNbluE
Profile Joined January 2011
Switzerland674 Posts
November 06 2012 14:16 GMT
#18
On November 05 2012 05:36 Nikoras wrote:
I'm having such a hard time trying to think of additional schools to apply to. I have one PhD program in mind, but I don't want to go all in with it. I'm banking on my GPA in my master's program making up for my undergrad GPA so looking at Cell Bio PhD rankings doesn't really help me because I assume I'm not getting into the top programs. Ugh this is so stressful I don't know what to do.


All-ining on a single PhD program generally is a bad idea indeed. Do you have an area of interest? Why don't you spend a few days/weeks reading papers on the subject and establishing a list of the PIs that interest you the most? You'll then have a larger spectrum of schools to apply to.
ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
6xFPCs
Profile Joined April 2009
United States412 Posts
November 07 2012 10:38 GMT
#19
On November 05 2012 05:36 Nikoras wrote:
I'm having such a hard time trying to think of additional schools to apply to. I have one PhD program in mind, but I don't want to go all in with it. I'm banking on my GPA in my master's program making up for my undergrad GPA so looking at Cell Bio PhD rankings doesn't really help me because I assume I'm not getting into the top programs. Ugh this is so stressful I don't know what to do.


I have a hard time imagining that there's only one program that fits your interests. Sometimes it might take a little digging to find a smaller program at other schools that have similar interests, or a few professors that have branched off into their own side projects within larger departments. For me, one school did not fit well with my research interests, but there were enough professors with relevant studies that I was comfortable applying there. Definitely contact a few of them directly if that's the case, make sure they are taking students and know that you're interested.

Don't count yourself out due to a poor undergrad GPA, especially since you've shown through your masters that you can handle graduate level studies. Certainly you can swing a top 25 school, if not a top 10. Don't assume; most graduate programs only place emphasis on undergraduate GPA because some candidates have very little else that demonstrates their ability to succeed in graduate school. If you have a solid masters GPA and perhaps a publication or two, those will far outshine your undergraduate GPA.

I would really encourage you to broaden your choices. Worst case, you get an interview, go there, and confirm in person that you would not want to be there. You go home and later call them to politely decline their offer.
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-12 16:13:54
November 12 2012 16:11 GMT
#20
On October 24 2012 04:24 talismania wrote:
for biology salary is 20k - 30k probably. depends on the program and where it's based.

no need to really wear a suit during the interviews. business casual is fine. only about one student out of twenty-five wears a full suit when we interview and it doesn't make a difference.


I wore a blazer over a sweater + dark denim for the interview day and I did fine, but then again I'm in ecology and evolution and we might not be as formal as departments with MD's in them. Full suit would have looked really strange I think.

Edit: We do get people who wear t-shirt + jeans and that's a bit too casual imo. Somewhere in between t-shirt and jeans and full suit is probably where I would put most people.
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