EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIII
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 06 2012 09:11 Golbat wrote: Well, that's the point of the lynch. If a bandwagon forms on a player who afterwards flips green, the bandwagon formers, (as well as people who hopped on late with no reason) are under huge scrutiny and suspicion. It's one of the best ways to catch mafia early imo. At the very least, we get good discussion and that can set us up for future lynches as well. Yep. Encouraging lots of activity is the best way to play the game--what most people don't realize is that a town that is busy accusing each other and a town that is totally quiet both have about equal chances of drawing mislynches early in the game, but a town that is busy accusing each other makes it much harder for scum to hide. And once scum start accusing, they either have to bus or push mislynches, either of which is hard to pull off, and gives scum a greater chance of making a mistake. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 06 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote: @ Golbat: Welcome! @ Dandel Ion: I disagree to a certain extent - not all scum will suddenly become active and incriminate themselves to bandwagon a player. Many scum in newbie games are comortable staying out of the thread and never being active. I do not believe that the "sudden activity read" it is an excuse to not be concerned with "scum lurkers" early in the game, and we should smoke-'em out as early as possible. I think you over-estimate the power of mafia. Mafia only have 3 votes as opposed to town's 9 votes. Furthermore, if Mafia violently forces a bandwagon, it reveals their hand and makes them easy lynches in subsequent days. I was reading through the OP and host said that we would know which roles are in the game, but not the number of roles. I'm not sure how Hapahauli knows there are only 3 scum in the game. Also, why is Promethelax so quiet? In the last game I played him, he racked up 10 posts in the first six hours of the game. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 06 2012 10:12 Shady Sands wrote: I was reading through the OP and host said that we would know which roles are in the game, but not the number of roles. I'm not sure how Hapahauli knows there are only 3 scum in the game. Also, why is Promethelax so quiet? In the last game I played him, he racked up 10 posts in the first six hours of the game. EBWOP: Just read that there are 3 scum players left and 9 town players left. Sorry about that, my mistake. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 06 2012 10:54 iamperfection wrote: Sup everybody I have come around in my thinking from previous games and agree that lynching lurkers is a good policy to have. When the town is inactive or loses its active players it is very easy for the scum to start leading the town. In my first game my scum buddies were able to dominate the conversation. In my last game that son of a bitch hapa cost me my perfection and i have been in mourning ever since. Its redemption time Alright lets not go accusing people of lurking in the first 2 or so hours into the game. We have 48 hours and while i want to see activity its important to remember this is forum mafia there will be times people can be active and not active. You can easily go back and see the results of that game. takes 2 seconds and now people are going to start questioning your effort http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315 Speaking of previous games i would like to know how yourharry is going to aproach this game. If we are going to get your logic that makes no sense where your "sure" sombody is town or mafia i say we lynch you know before your logic festers and contaminates the town. One of the reason i lynched calgar in my previous game is because he actually used your logic in his own defense. Unforgivable in my view. Your thoughts? I'm not accusing Prome of lurking, I'm just saying that his behavior this game doesn't match up with his behavior last game (when he flipped green) and his behavior in XIX (when he was scum). On August 06 2012 10:28 Golbat wrote: Promethelax might be trying to be quieter than last game, because those 10 posts in six hours were a big part of getting him lynched, were they not? I should probably be doing the same, but posting is just so much DAMN FUN. That's exactly my point. In XIX Prome was scum and led discussions actively from D1. In XXII Prome was town and posted a ton of fluff, and posted a bunch of weak cases. In XXIII, Prome is not posting. Weird | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 06 2012 11:31 Lvdr wrote: Throw out my first statement, it was clearly misinformed and not useful. As I am somewhat of an unknown quantity let me explain that if my accusations seem random, its because they pretty much are (at this point). It seems that d1 is the time to try to get people on record so that you can have a body of evidence to work off of in the future. Overeager townie apologizes. Yeah, overeagerness on D1 can be pretty bad, especially in a newbie game. In XXII a confirmed townie ended up getting the Vigi lynched because the Vigi didn't know how to properly defend himself against accusations without looking even more scummy in the process. We need everyone to at least have made a post in here before any serious hunting can begin. Otherwise we're giving up too much edge to scum, who can just lurk and wait for town to WIFOM and OMGUS each other to death. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 07 2012 02:30 Lvdr wrote: Synyster seems to fit the 'post just enough' mafia profile. His defenses have involved a lot of passive accusing against his attackers. What I don't get about Synyster is why he'd have to make posts justifying his own behavior, when we're not even halfway through Day 1. But then the excuses about "caution" could just be a convenient excuse for continued passive accusations. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
I believe that not lynching players simply because they are active is a good way to go about things. You could be scum using that as an excuse to cover up. While I do see the benefit in lynching a lurker versus an active player, I do not believe this should be the sole reasoning on how we lynch someone. What is he trying to say here? We should avoid lynching active players? Or do scum already know that they should be active? Or is there a benefit? Or isn't there? Is the wine in front of me? On August 07 2012 01:21 Synystyr wrote: @Hapa Don't be so quick to vote me after one post  I was merely implying that activity is not indicative of alignment and shouldn't be taken into account in a case, yet.@Dandel My read on Golbat is that he's neutral leaning scum. Scum like to cause discord amongst the town, and there's really no need for attacks on reading comprehension without a good reason. He's just trying to stir shit up. He wants to lynch lurkers as well, which may be the start of a defense to as why he shouldn't be lynched d1. Here, he doesn't say very much at all. First off, policy lynching lurkers is not because activity indicates alignment, it's because when town can lurk, then scum gets a free ride to lurk, too. Policy lynches are designed as punishment to "dry up the pond" for scumfish to swim around in. Second, when he says that scum like to cause discord amongst the town, it's almost like he's painting anyone who comes out with an early case as a potential scum. Why would a town want to do that? Town benefits from discussion and active scumhunting, even to the point of arguments, if necessary. On August 07 2012 01:37 Synystyr wrote: I'm just being cautious. Golbat hasn't been too productive as far as I can tell, which isn't a town move, so I'm leaning scum. It's still early so I'm not pushing for anything yet though. Scum have to look like they're trying to catch scum, without committing to anything. Here, Synystyr does that, as well as basically priming Golbat for a lynch, without having to commit himself. This is anti-town play at best. On August 07 2012 03:43 Synystyr wrote: On the contrary, I feel quite safe going with my instinct that you are a townie. You ask all the right questions and cast good suspicion over everyone. I really do mean it when I say I'm just being cautious. You never know what could happen. Scum try to buddy other players very aggressively in the early parts of the game. This is a classic scumslip. On August 07 2012 08:41 Synystyr wrote: Let me assure you guys that I am indeed town! I apologize for the number of "fluff" posts that you guys say I am making. There is simply not much to go off this early in the game. I would move for a lurker policy lynch at this point in the game over any other active players unless they make me suspicious. Golbat says he has some cases to post, so I'd like to hear what he has to say. Wait a second: earlier Synystyr says that "activity is not indicative of alignment"; now, when people pressure him, he argues for a lurker policy lynch. This is the biggest slip in the thread so far. In conclusion: town doesn't have to act like they're scumhunting without actually committing. Town doesn't have to try and buddy other players. Town doesn't have to self-consciously apologize for fluff posts and then immediately contradict their own post from 2 pages ago. There is no reason to do any of this... unless he's scum. ## Vote Synystyr | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 07 2012 11:51 Lvdr wrote: I will still observe them (just like everyone) but Synyster and iamperfection are the ones I am confident enough to FOS. Golbat is average suspicion, and YH is inscrutable. Right now (and I reserve the right to change my mind when more posts are made) I think iamperfection would give us more information. If he flips red, YH looks much less suspicious. Hard to believe he would bus YH that hard D1. Synyster is still a good lynch because of the cases brought so far. Unfortunately, because he has said basically nothing, the connections would be less obvious. Voting trends are always useful though. Not sure that going for "lynch to reveal information" is a good idea. I pushed that line in XXII, and both my targets ended up flipping town (one ended up flipping Vig, as Golbat can attest to.) If Synystyr seems scummier, he's probably the better lynch target. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 08 2012 02:00 Hapahauli wrote: Why I believe Promethelax is a better lynch than Synyster and iamperfection Synystyr - while he has been suspicious, the suspicion on him so far has been too easy. It's been coming together without any resistance from scum or Synystyr himself. I doubt mafia would sit back and watch one of their own burn with so little resistance. WIFOM, yes, but that's my feeling. iamperfection - His play has been suspicious, but my confirmation bias may have gotten the best of me when I questioned him. I just can't see mafia deciding to policy-lynch YourHarry from day 1. It seems absurd in my eyes, and I want to see more from iamperfection before I make a decision. The reason why it's felt so easy to lynch Synystyr is because he hasn't been defending himself. I haven't seen a single case or single defense out of him since the train on him started, which is anti-town play. Given how guilty Syn looks and Syn's inactivity, we could just as easily say that scum was bussing him. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 08 2012 02:37 Hapahauli wrote: @mkfuba - you scumslipped harrrrrrd here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=15#300 @ Shady - if Synyster didn't flip red, you would've looked awful from the case you pushed @ YourHarry - you just blew my mind lol Lol I guess so, although the case was strong and logical. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
D2, we were planning on having YH claim Cop, and then depending on whether there was a cop, either Nightkill the real Cop or Nightkill no one (to make it seem like YH was the Cop and he got Medic'd). | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 10 2012 05:28 Dandel Ion wrote: Just to clarify this shit, "basic advice to a newb" is the point of this. It's called "Newbie Mafia", you know? I'd like for you to point out the exact syllable that's "scummy" about it. Yeah, I'm lurking so far, I know I know. But so are goodkarma and Axero, Sideni (again) and Shady Sands (not even a single post since the start) I'd like to know the reason why I'm so far above them, because I'm pretty sure you don't have one. Between YourHarry being YourHarry, mkfuba attacking YourHarry for being YourHarry, Lvdr being lvdr, mkfuba attacking lvdr for being lvdr, and the new people doing blanket statements about policy, I was yet unable to find anything I felt I could post on. That's my reason. You hit the nail right on the head there. I just finished reading through the thread. There's not one case that I can build that isn't completely WIFOM-y. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 10 2012 05:37 iamperfection wrote: Do you think we should still policy lynch yourharry? No. Policy lynching a player because he was playing as a bad townie two games ago is no substitute for actual scumhunting. When town is only 1 mislynch away from LYLO, we'll be regretting it, hard. | ||
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