EPTI've never played before and have no idea how these things will go.
Newbie Mini XIV
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Release
United States4397 Posts
I've never played before and have no idea how these things will go. | ||
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does that include PM? | ||
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On May 22 2012 08:44 Mordanis wrote: So my last game began with a discussion of whether to vote or not that wasn't very productive. We got lucky and scored a good D1 lynch, but it felt very, well, luck based. So I'll start this out by saying that if we don't lynch today, we'll probably be in a really shitty situation. In short, I am for a vote today. Also, it's good to be working together with Golden again! For Liquidia! Is this day cycle going to be an extra couple of hours? I only ask because it was in my first game and I'd like to make sure what the situation is. Thanks You say that you are for a vote, but you state that your other vote was luck based. Considering you said "very luck based", doesn't that mean to say that we are not going to experience the same luck? If we don't experience the same luck, we will very much end up lynching a townie, which makes your "for a vote" seem like you want to lynch a townie. Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this game and find out ways for pointing out scum rather than ways not to. This seems more like filler. The useful part of your post can be summarized by: We should have a lynch today. A no-lynch would be detrimental. ##FOS: Mordanis | ||
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On May 22 2012 09:25 Mufaa wrote: I was Mafia in XIII and the amount of lurkers in a 12 person game ruined it. We won after a misread by the vig n3 because 2 of the mafia lurked all 3 days and so did 2 townies and he guessed wrong. If we want to find the scum we need as much content out of everyone as possible. More content means more room for mafia mistakes while townies can't make a mistake if they're being honest. First bold: Logical, a bit obvious, but should be stated. Second bold: Are you saying that townies will always show townie posts? This is certainly not the case. Townies can and do make mistakes, which is probably the cause of 99% of mislynches in mafia. Honest =/= True. For example, if you are being "honest" in this post, you have clearly made a "mistake." Is that to suggest that you are Mafia? A better word for "mistake" in this context is "slip", and i advise people to use slip in the future because it more accurately denotes what a bad mafia would do. | ||
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On May 22 2012 09:36 sciberbia wrote: 1) First of all, can we all agree that it is in our best interest to lynch today? 2) Can we all accept that we might have to vote for our 2nd or 3rd top choice? 3)Can anyone think of a scenario where a day 1 roleclaim is a good idea? One other point I want to bring up is the subject of day 1 roleclaims. I have never played a semi-open setup before, so this is new territory for me. It seems to me that there is no circumstance in which it makes sense to roleclaim on day 1. - I'm sure the game is set up so that mass roleclaim is a bad idea. It would give the mafia too much information. - No role can claim with assured protection of medic because we are not guaranteed a medic. - The final scenario where you might want to roleclaim is if you are about to be lynched. But my question is, should the fact that someone roleclaims deter us from lynching them? Consider the following hypothetical scenario: I am mafia (hypothetically!) and you all decide that my posts are extremely scummy and unanimously vote to lynch me day 1. If I'm mafia (which I'm not), I might as well claim DT or something. I can't really be counterclaimed because for all we know there are 2 DT's. So, should the fact that I claimed DT really make you all change your minds about the lynch? I think not. So, if you are townie are getting bandwaggoned, I think you should defend yourself as best as possible without roleclaiming. I don't think roleclaiming should sway our vote, and it just gives the mafia more information (because they are the only ones that know you're telling the truth.) Finally, Release just asked for opinion on lurkers. If someone is lurking, I will consider them slightly more likely to be mafia than someone who is not, all things being even. But I'd rather draw my scum reads from actual posts. I agree with Mufaa that more quality contributions from everyone can only help. I'm actually going to sleep soon. I'll be back online in about 9 hours at which time I will read the thread. Hope to see lots of discussion. Night. 1) Of course we should lynch. Anyone who doesn't vote for a lynch is immediately put under suspicion. 2) Isn't this just repeating question #1? If we don't say yes to 2, we don't say yes to 1. 3) Roleclaim can't be confirmed either way. It turns into WIFOM; useless. Actually, it's worse than useless because it gives the mafia an opportunity to see which roles people have (if they claim truthfully) or makes townies suspicious of each other (claim false). Roleclaim on Day 1 is a bad idea. Your hypothetical is just that: completely hypothetical and it leaves no room for solid evidence. I am getting awfully suspicious of you because of this post: First, you ask a question to which both myself and Mordanis have answered yes to. If you wanted to further ask the others, there is no need to include the small tidbits of information that don't really help people make an informative decision. In fact, the part where you include Role... Role ... Role.. looks like an attempt to confuse people. Second, your second question is a mere restatement of your first question with even more filler. Why do you feel obligated to post this if it doesn't contribute to do anything useful? Third, i already explain some of it above, but to further my point: You have a conclusion that is " I think you should defend yourself as best as possible without roleclaiming. I don't think roleclaiming should sway our vote, and it just gives the mafia more information (because they are the only ones that know you're telling the truth.)" Why did you need to post all of that other stuff that is just WIFOM territory? ##FOS: Sciberbia | ||
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But i do understand where you're coming from, and it is not my intention to stop others from posting. Also, the reason i mentioned the way you used your previous game was that you had a point you wanted to make and your previous game was not entirely consistent with that point.(luck vs still want a lynch despite low chance of luck). | ||
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##unFOS: Mordanis What is your opinion on Sciberia's post as a "post"? (i'm not asking you to answer the question, but rather to view it from a townie/scum perspective.) | ||
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On May 22 2012 18:06 O.Golden_ne wrote: + Show Spoiler + Good evening all, Well i've been following everything today via iPhone at work, but i'll be most active in the evenings. Such as now! Okay to start things off, Release has taken a very aggressive stance. This seems standard, someone always needs to shake things up. That being said, it was fairly amusing watching him post #FOS at anyone posting. I had a LOL at my desk. While it is good to shake things up, which he is doing. I do feel like he sort of shut down several good points that both Mordanis and Sciberbia have made, and is picking on some very minor problems with their posts that would be expected so early in the game. Please dont focus on the semantics so much Release. + Show Spoiler + A better word for "mistake" in this context is "slip", and i advise people to use slip in the future because it more accurately denotes what a bad mafia would do. I think take a bit to absorb what everyone is saying. Please remember that there are 7 of us Town and while discouraging fluff is essential in dissecting the mafia from the pack you need to keep in mind that the majority of us are town and we WANT to promote discussion. Pointing the finger at everyone that talks, for semantics OR their opinions is perhaps not the best way to encourage people to engage in a profitable discussion. To add my 2 cents on the DayOneLynch (D1L) I agree with hegeo, Release and Mordanis. It is my opinion that on day one we need to lynch someone, it provides a lot of information and in the optimum situation we can get lucky and hit a mafia. I'd rather mislynch one of our own, then wait a day and one of us get sniped. Ending up in a similar circumstance to the start of D1 just minus a player. Ugh. Also, i consider lurkers to be quite scummy. So unless a lurker posts some seriously good content every day, they will be under some scrutiny from myself. @Miltonkram, what is your on opinion on hegeo's statement: Furthermore, I think it might be a good idea to not share your town reads early on, since this will make "weaker" town reads an easy target for scum and will give scum safety when they see themselves being seen as strong town reads. By doing so, they will need to justify their posts/opinions and it will be easier to keep the pressure high and find inconsistencies. " Please dont focus on the semantics so much Release. + Show Spoiler + A better word for "mistake" in this context is "slip", and i advise people to use slip in the future because it more accurately denotes what a bad mafia would do. My point is that Townies can make mistakes, but townies don't make slips. Mafia make can make mistakes; usually their mistake is to make a slip. I want to make that very clear. We shouldn't end up lynching for a mistake. We should lynch someone who makes a slip. From Newbie II game + Show Spoiler + Probulous got a AKCT lynched. That was a mistake. He was clearly contributing so even though he made a mistake, he shouldn't get lynched. (he didn't) Sheth however, does slip in trying to save his scumbuddy and got lynched for that. | ||
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On May 22 2012 16:33 Mordanis wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 15:45 Release wrote: EBWOP: I understand your post so for now: ##unFOS: Mordanis What is your opinion on Sciberia's post as a "post"? (i'm not asking you to answer the question, but rather to view it from a townie/scum perspective.) I don't see any major reason for suspicion. All he really does is say that he's for lynch and against roleclaiming. This seems like a fairly obvious stance. Then he asks us what our stances areon these issues. If anything, this is suspicious because there are a lot of words to convey a few simple ideas. That being said, I think it is a good thing to convey thoughts completely. I'd rather read a wall of text every 15 minutes than have no idea what people are thinking when they vote. Obviously we can't give any weight to the fact that he explicitly said he's town. If we did, everyone would, and we'd be back at square one, minus however many hours it took us to get there. Frankly, this is a newbie game, and he seems relatively logical. Even though I'll never be able to say with 100% confidence that he is town, this post reads like an inexperienced town. That being said, I've dismissed a scum from my suspicion because I thought he was just being illogical, so I'd say we should keep our collective eye on him. I don't see nearly enough evidence though to push for a lynch. On that train of thought, when do you think we need to start panicking? I mean this question for everyone. If we panic too early, we'll vote early and have little information for that vote and also little information for the next vote. If we go to late, we risk a no-lynch, which as (I think) everyone agrees, would not be a good decision. I'm thinking that with about 12 hours left, we should start consolodating for a lynch. Can everybody be fairly active for at least a few posts in the 12 hours leading up to the vote? + Show Spoiler + One last thing: That is pretty scary timing Hegeo. You don't post at all for the 5 hours after the D1 post (which is in itself understandable, with sleep and such), but then you post (to defend yourself) 3 minutes past the first time someone calls you out (sort of?). The coincidence seems just a bit much. As someone who has watched (too much) House, I don't really believe in coincidences. We need to start panicking if no one votes and it is a short time before the deadline. This is textbook no lynch territory. In this case, we need to start piling our votes on one candidate who has appeared the most scummy. Worst case scenario, we look at lurkers and choose to lynch one of them. Still, we need more information, especially because this is Day1 and we only have some 8 hours left and no concrete scum yet. | ||
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On May 23 2012 00:15 s0Lstice wrote: + Show Spoiler + We lynch day 1, period. Debating about whether or not to lynch only happens if we have no reads to go off of, which to me makes the debate a non-factor.. We've heard from everyone now I believe, solid reads will come with a little time. Can we stop discussion about policy now please? It creates an environment where scum can comfortably post and be 'CREDIT TO TEAM.' Scumhunting must begin now. I'm looking first to sciberbia. I'm not sure if Release reads you as green, but I currently do. More fluff and I'll change my mind though. Your stated purpose was to generate discussion...mission accomplished. I'll be looking for you to make something out of it. ShiaoPi has a small filter as well. You just like that back off your suspicions on sciberbia? Scum post fluffy quasi-useful posts all the time. They want to appear to be contributing without actually saying anything incriminating. Miltonkram confuses me. You say you don't want people to share town reads because it's giving information to the mafia. What? Scum know who is town and who is not. Scumhunting is ALL ABOUT posting your reads on people. They are accused, and must defend. You smell fishy to me Milton. ##FOS: Miltonkram Posting reads on people is a slippery slope. If one of us happens to post a townie read on one of the scum, then they'll know that their play is working fine and can continue to keep playing this way. If this is coupled with a scum read on one of the townies, i could easily see a bandwagon forming. And this is just a general thing that we all have to do to differentiate townies from scum: Form your own ideas; doing this allows us to dissect as much scumminess as we can. Do not simply repeat ideas and agree with other people without sufficient reasoning. You have been warned. Second, people need to post more. If we don't post more, this gives more opportunities for the scum to hide without taking any heat. | ||
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On May 23 2012 01:29 hegeo wrote: Sciberbia bringing the heat via analysis, I like it. Hey Release, some thoughts about your posts, and why I think you're not always helping town with them: a) Even though I understand where you're coming from, this is kind of pseudo-pressuring people, which is futile in the beginning of the game. This makes for an anti-town-atmosphere, since posting should be encouraged. b) It's not the best case to lynch lurkers, but if they don't contribute to town then it is at least good riddance. c) You are posting at least a considerable amount of non-productive posts right now, e.g. to this post... ... your answer was this: You consistently do this "#FOS"-stuff and then, you FOS Sciberibia... ..before even un##FOSing Mordanis: To answer in your own words: Even though there are many players that have a way shorter filter than you, what you do is generating "noise" (not always, you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute). It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can (because both of these #FOSes came to nothing, which would make you a little scummy) or I read it as an overly motivated try to get information. Response to a) my point was that contributing useless information is worse than having no contribution at all. My example was Sciberia's asking the same question twice, which has since, been given some clarification. b) Lynching a lurker is not "good riddance". I don't see why a townie should feel that way. Lynching a lurker (if there are more than one) is random to a townie, but clear to the mafia. The mafia will obviously choose the lurker whom is a townie, therefore causing us to mislynch. Advocating a lurker lynch instead of focusing on those who are suspicious is a Mafia's way of thinking. In fact, you don't even list some alternative, despite it not being a best case scenario. c)my answer was this: "My point is that Townies can make mistakes, but townies don't make slips. Mafia make can make mistakes; usually their mistake is to make a slip. I want to make that very clear. We shouldn't end up lynching for a mistake. We should lynch someone who makes a slip." From Newbie II game + Show Spoiler + Probulous got a AKCT lynched. That was a mistake. He was clearly contributing so even though he made a mistake, he shouldn't get lynched. (he didn't) Sheth however, does slip in trying to save his scumbuddy and got lynched for that. this was in support of the above point i made. Your c) and reasoning behind are Blatant Lies; you intentionally leave out my actual point to make it seem like i am posting filler. If i didn't know better, you know that i am town, and see that i am dangerous to your scum motives. You are targeting me with a weak case based on incomplete evidence. In regard to the FOS before unFOS, i did it to show that i was putting both of them under suspicion. There are 3 mafia. I only had 2. Are you seriously trying to convince to to avoid the larger picture and completely ignore anyone (other than the person who i am targeting at the moment) who might be Mafia? The FOS's got people talking. Talking is good for the town. Again, this is an example of where you completely ignore the larger picture. "overly motivated try to get information." All townies want information. After all, we don't know much. You however, seem perfectly content to let this day slip by without extracting a lot of information from it (presumably because you already have the information because you are scum). I see no other option as of yet (or until you reply) but to: ##Vote: Hegeo | ||
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