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Hi guys,
Hi, what's up?
As mentioned in the HEAT Charity Tournament thread, I have been working with TBO to create a system that can automatically capture data from specially modified maps to give post-, or in-game analysis on the match.
I have named this system StarGraphed (apparently it's not already been taken and I like the name).
What does it do?
StarGraphed uses modified maps (normal match-maps with added triggers) to output data from a game as it is played to the spectators of the game. This data is then read in and parsed by an external tool in the background and, when requested, is displayed.
What does it capture?
Currently in prototype stage, it captures army compositions at 10 second intervals as well as when any unit is killed.
What do you do with that?
StarGraphed currently uses this to create stacked graphs of army layout split up based on player race:
Terran
- Workers
- Bio
- Mech
- Air
Zerg
- Workers
- Melee
- Ranged
- Air
Protoss
- Workers
- Gateway
- Robotics
- Air
With the unit deaths, StarGraphed takes their positions and use this to create a heat map of all the action in the map.
And the result looks like...?
This:
This is all generated from the gameplay data within 20 seconds of the game finishing!
Introductory map for this: TLO vs Grubby Group Stage Game 3
![[image loading]](http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q619/Gowerly/StarGraphed%20Prototype%20at%20Heat%20Tournament/GrubbyvsTLOGame3.png)
Game 3 of TLO vs Real - (This game consisted of a wall + cannons and then TLO rushing to the top left with drones)
![[image loading]](http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q619/Gowerly/StarGraphed%20Prototype%20at%20Heat%20Tournament/TLOvsRealGame3Final.png)
Game 2 of TLO vs Grubby (A lot of action here! 40+ minutes of units being killed):
![[image loading]](http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q619/Gowerly/StarGraphed%20Prototype%20at%20Heat%20Tournament/GrubbyvsTLOGame2.png)
Disclaimer: I know this one starts at 118/140 food. This is entirely my fault. I started recording the data too late. Thankfully not much fighting had happened at that point.
Alright, so what?
Well, further work will be done, of course. TBO believes we should be able to extend this to apply it to any replay of any game ever, which could be great. As for the reasoning behind doing it, we're looking at ways to digest the game that just happened easily before the next round starts. We're both into the analytical side of the game, so this suits us perfectly. We hope that others will be interested in what can be done with this and how it can be used in tournaments/casts.
Questions?
Go for it. Will update this thread if there are frequently asked ones.
What the hell? Why even bother?
We're hoping for a two-fold plan with this:
Short Term:
- Something to briefly talk about if the game requires it. Allows for visual representation of the game right after it is over. Especially for longer games it allows for the important points to be pointed out more easily.
- Getting a feel for something like this or tools like it. TBO has been very focused in increasing production quality with overlays or picture-in-picture tech. Something like this just adds to the list
Long Term:
Map Statistics.
With enough time we would like to set up a site for regularly updated statistics on maps played over time.
For example, some people may wonder where the fights are mainly done on ZvZs on Antiga Shipyard, or how many TvP's end up with air units by protoss. If we can get replay analysis working, all this is possible. We're excited about whether this can be done.
Can it be used by map makers to see how their maps are played out?
If you can get replays from them, then it's a possibility for the future.
Does it cause lag?
Currently, Stargraphed captures and outputs the following:
- Number of every type of unit per player (once every 5 seconds I think. Maybe even once every 2 seconds)
- Positions of every unit that has died in the last 5 seconds (output once every 5 seconds)
- Player Names/Player Races/Map information (name, size, etc) (output at the start)
- Total resources harvested per player (once every 2 or 5 seconds again)
It is ONLY output to the observers. The Players do not get any output. I spoke to some of the HEAT players and they did not notice any lag. The only time the framerate dropped for Tarson we weren't even playing one of the StarGraphed maps!
How much work is it to change the map to make this work?
As long as your map
- Supports Spectators, and
- Works normally as a multiplayer map
then you should be able to enable StarGraphed on it.
Currently there are 5 triggers and some variables that are added to the map
I enabled all of the HEAT Tournament maps in about 30 minutes. It was simply a case of copy/pasting the triggers in to the map and publishing them. The data is then output into the bank directory as some other custom maps that save data do.
What happened with Antiga?
No idea. I downloaded it in the Editor, updated it, re-uploaded it and then it was magically a single player game. Possibly due to it being a blizzard map? It'll probably be pretty trivial to fix, I'll look at modifying the MLG Antiga one and seeing if that fixes it. I just didn't have enough time to figure it out on the day.
What makes a blip on the heat map?
Any unit being killed that isn't:
- Natural expiration (hallucinations, zerg eggs, broodlings from expiring, etc), or
- Killed by your own team (unless it's by storm, siege tank splash or nukes)
Could it be modified to do live output?
If I can get the triggers that do that kind of thing into a map, then I don't see why not. That one may take a bit of time, though! Watch this space, etc.
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it will never cease to amaze me the kind of information and statistics the community comes up with.
that said, what purpose does this serve?
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On February 06 2012 02:56 BoxedLunch wrote:
it will never cease to amaze me the kind of information and statistics the community comes up with.
that said, what purpose does this serve?
I think this would be great in tournaments as a filler between games, to check the previous game and discuss some of the presented stats.
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Fucking awesome.
Analytical discussion by casters and such at events would be really beneficial using this.
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On February 06 2012 02:56 BoxedLunch wrote:
it will never cease to amaze me the kind of information and statistics the community comes up with.
that said, what purpose does this serve?
In the short term it would be good to see it used in casted tournaments. TBO and I think it should give something to talk about with the added benefit of quantifiability. You can see in one image how the army was made up at any point in the game and where all the fights happened. Were they closer to one side?
In the long term, if we can apply it to any game ever, we could do map stats. Apply the heat map over all games played to see where the most combat happened.
Could lead to asking why the fights happen there. If there are areas of the map where there are few to no fights, especially if there's minerals, could you expand there, or is the reason there are no fights there because it is a stupid place to expand?
You could adapt it to spot proxy pylons/hatches/barracks, etc. With the data we have found it is possible to get out of the map editor, we could expand it to find out pretty much anything.
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On February 06 2012 02:56 BoxedLunch wrote:
it will never cease to amaze me the kind of information and statistics the community comes up with.
that said, what purpose does this serve?
It shows the main attack routes and positions needed to defend and contain. It can help players with their positioning. Of course, I am not talking about pros, as they probably already have this knowledge, but this could be really good stuff for an average ladder player.
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I think its cool how you can see which part of the map gets the most action.
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On February 06 2012 03:10 Odoakar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 02:56 BoxedLunch wrote:
it will never cease to amaze me the kind of information and statistics the community comes up with.
that said, what purpose does this serve? I think this would be great in tournaments as a filler between games, to check the previous game and discuss some of the presented stats.
Agree completely. They can analyze a little better what happened during the game. Except for that cannon rush...
OP, can you make a graph with the upgrades and researches during the game as well? The upgrade timings for mirror matches and TvP is so important, that could be useful information as well.
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your Country52798 Posts
Could you make a custom map which displays this info after each game?
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On February 06 2012 03:33 TiTanIum_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2012 03:10 Odoakar wrote:On February 06 2012 02:56 BoxedLunch wrote:
it will never cease to amaze me the kind of information and statistics the community comes up with.
that said, what purpose does this serve? I think this would be great in tournaments as a filler between games, to check the previous game and discuss some of the presented stats. Agree completely. They can analyze a little better what happened during the game. Except for that cannon rush... OP, can you make a graph with the upgrades and researches during the game as well? The upgrade timings for mirror matches and TvP is so important, that could be useful information as well.
I was trying to get the upgrades into the release for HEAT, but couldn't do it in time. It is definitely high on the list, though. It would add much depth to the army composition analysis, especially when comparing with the opponent, as it would signify timing pushes, etc.
As for putting the output into the map itself: I am unsure if this is possible. I do not think that the map editor itself is powerful enough to do that.
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Is it possible with that software to make a heat map over lets say 1k games to see where battles occur more often?
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It should be possible to do that. TBO and I believe it is possible to do this from replays with a bit of work.
If it is, we can definitely do this over time.
We both have plans for where we'd like this to go, so any suggestions can help us shape up what's most important.
As for the integration tools, yes, that should be doable also. Currently if I want to add it to a map it's 4 steps (copy all triggers from one map, open new map, delete all triggers and paste in mine, so even if it's not possible, posting how to do it should be sufficient, be sure to use maps that already support observers, though!).
Thanks for all your responses so far, it's great to see that people are positive about it!
Edit: The main reason for modified maps is that Blizzard takes a dim view of hooking into the game. This way it's all done with the Blizzard map editor, etc.
Edit2: The games I managed to capture from HEAT are here!
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Would be really cool to see TvT graphs. It will tell you exactly where the pro gamers tend to contest for position. In some maps its really obvious eg Xelnaga caverns but on Taldarim, it gets confusing where you should position your army.
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Very novel. This idea has potential.
I noticed that your axis is food-based. Would resource usage be a better indicator?
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There's a plan for a combined resource based army linegraph (which can then show both players on the same graph). The idea behind it being food-based is that it's generally what's discussed during a game (supply lead, etc)
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Have you consider just keeping the axis at 200 food then? otherwise a short game like TLO vs Real can produce some ugly graphs.
Love the heat mapping thing you have to the right. It'd be more amazing if it's animated!
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It is a tossup. If you cap it at 200, then in short games it's hard to gauge the army sizes, I might have set values 20, 50, 100, 200 instead.
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I don't want to be mean, but what use would this serve ever? Viewers have just watched the game, they know where the majority of the fights and such happened. It's not even interesting information, because it only gives you a vague idea of what kind of game just happened anyway. People can make those observations for themselves. I really don't want starcraft casts to end up with endless talk about pointless statistics.
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EPT
