This build is designed to be a very hard to deal with 1-1-1 that pushes slightly later than most recent 1-1-1's due to tank count and more cloak banshees. The idea behind it is to cause the player to lose mining time, probes, and miss some macro ultimately leading to not enough units to hold off your large banshee tank marine count you've been building up. You will be pushing at around 10-12 minutes and focusing on your micro from that point on. I'm a mid-masters terran so I don't claim this build to slay Grandmasters or anything but I do think it's fairly powerful.
Keep in mind another reason for this is to give in better detail how and why the build works, so people have a better understanding of what to account for in their builds.
Basic build order 10 depot 12 barracks 13 gas 15 orbital 15 depot [make sure to produce 2 marines then add reactor to barracks] bunker after second marine 18 second gas 21 food factory 21 starport, as soon as it's done start cloak and banshees Some where from here until around 7:00 get on 1 turret at your ramp. Do not lose to dt's. It's worth the small investment. once the second banshee is qued switch to tanks and siege mode until 4 tanks. produce marines during all of this You will be pushing at around 10-12 minutes, before that harassing with banshees at two locations. Read below for more details.
The fundamentals behind the build and things to note. The entire idea of this build is to throw your enemy off of his game and attack with a force he may even have known what as coming but due to your harass he can not hold off. Things that I believe are crucial to the build.
Get TWO marines out of your barracks before slapping down your reactor. The reasoning behind this is to make sure you don't get scouted so easily. If you do not do this they can run a probe up your ramp and see every thing for the cost of one probe, one marine will not kill it fast enough. This is also why I do not wall off with my barracks, so they can't poke and see the reactor.
Secondly, if they expanded you MUST send 1 banshee to each base, do not send them in a pair. Move them both in at the same time or close to the same time and force them to split their attention and units up. Not only does this build force them to build an observer, but if you do this it forces them to make two or take a lot of dmg in mining time in probes killed.
Thirdly, do NOT let your banshees die. The main goal is to get a few probe kills and make them lose lots of mining and macro time as well as extra units to defend two fronts. How ever you want to keep every single banshee alive no matter what for your last push, this is the most important part.
Lastly, when you do push the majority of the time you lose will be to miss micro. Most players currently try to counter 1-1-1 with clossi although I think phoenix zealot is the best way. The way I see most players lose is to lose all their marines in a couple of clossi swings when you have tanks. Leap frog them and don't zoom your marines in.
Micro tips: Due to having 3-4 cloaked banshees, you can use a scan and snipe the observer if possible. Do NOT let your marine ball die. Let your tanks and banshees do the ranged damage and vison, and let your marines act as a way to handle them if they jump into your army. Never let them all die to a couple clossi hits. Leap frog siege tanks if you see any signs of aggression towards your army, getting caught while siegeing up can make you lose a winnable game. Possibly even use a SCV scout first before you push out to locate his army.
Reading your opponents build and reacting accordingly. If you see 3 gateways and lots of chronoboost saved up, expect a 3 gate void ray build. No extra defense really needed although you might want to throw down a turret or two. If you see lots of chrono and low probe count with it only being put to warpgate, expect 4 gate and build 2 bunkers in case. ALWAYS build 1 turret at the ramp incase of DT's. This build does not have the gas to support ravens.
Replays: I spend a little time creating my first ever video. Any comments or constructive criticism is welcome. Keep in mind it's my first video I've ever made.
first of all, your opponent didn't deal very well with the banshee harass. Against a competent player, most of the time you will make the same amount of damage wether you have cloak or not, because he has to account that you have it. so I would skip it.
then the ebay... If you have a wall-in and a starport with techlab, there is really no reason to be afraid of dts. so I would skip the ebay and add a second rax instead and go for 3 marines at a time.
if you want to go for the banshee harass, its really good to add a raven after the second banshee. because your harass will most likely force stalkers the pdd becomes really strong. and of course then you don't have to be afraid of dts at all
I personally prefer skipping cloak AND raven and just get more banshees and 3 marines at a time. edit: for this to work the build order is a little different. I get 3 marines, then factory, reactor, second gas. because you don't need as much gas but a few more minerals. if you want to work in the raven maybe your build is already good for that, because you get the second gas before factory.
as a protoss, i feel the strength of a 1/1/1 is hitting early.
im going to 1gate FE, and then the longer you wait, the further i get ahead. you need to push out with it early and catch him before the expo really kicks in.
This may work against lesser skilled protoss (even up to high master) but a toss with very crisp timings is going to crush you if you wait too long on one base
On September 16 2011 22:12 Chernobyl wrote: If someone beats this shit, please post replay...
I hope the patch help fighting this, its very simple to do, and ten times harder to counter...
I feel 1/1/1 isnt that strong, if OP wants to play some games PM me, im 1100 masters NA
I'f i see this, ill just do the same build i use whenever i play terran and think 1/1/1 is possible. I generally do a 3 stalker rush with 2nd gw hidden against terran these days. The first stalker can completely deny the bunker and kill the 2 rines, the other 2 stalkers are only seconds behind and will get up ramp easy as well. Ive met alot of terrans on NA trying to do this build. Honestly its not worth it, NA terrans just can't execute it. Sometimes they outright lose to the 3 stalkers.
2 gw 3 stalker rush, expo once the last 2 are queud. Drop 2 more gw, a robo, and then a forge slightly later. Its very easy to have 1 canon in each line, with a few immortals, couple sentrys, and LOTS of zealots to counter this and +1 armor by the time your hitting. Might be able to squeeze out charge but I wouldn't try cause its not needed.
On September 16 2011 22:15 L3g3nd_ wrote: as a protoss, i feel the strength of a 1/1/1 is hitting early.
im going to 1gate FE, and then the longer you wait, the further i get ahead. you need to push out with it early and catch him before the expo really kicks in.
This may work against lesser skilled protoss (even up to high master) but a toss with very crisp timings is going to crush you if you wait too long on one base
On September 16 2011 22:15 L3g3nd_ wrote: as a protoss, i feel the strength of a 1/1/1 is hitting early.
im going to 1gate FE, and then the longer you wait, the further i get ahead. you need to push out with it early and catch him before the expo really kicks in.
This may work against lesser skilled protoss (even up to high master) but a toss with very crisp timings is going to crush you if you wait too long on one base
On September 16 2011 22:12 Chernobyl wrote: If someone beats this shit, please post replay...
I hope the patch help fighting this, its very simple to do, and ten times harder to counter...
I feel 1/1/1 isnt that strong, if OP wants to play some games PM me, im 1100 masters NA
1/1/1 is hella strong. Just only Koreans can do it effectively so far.
meh, the korean toss are doing horribly against it. i remember huk saying he hopes MVP 1/1/1's him cos he can stop 1/1/1 fairly easily. although he did lose, he has obviously had a lot of success against it on the ladder/in practice
I don't see the purpose of cloak in this build. Does it do anything other than delay the push and make it weaker? Also most people don't counter 1/1/1 with colossi.
On September 17 2011 01:08 Numy wrote: I don't see the purpose of cloak in this build. Does it do anything other than delay the push and make it weaker? Also most people don't counter 1/1/1 with colossi.
It's all about causing them to lose mining time and some probes. Most protoss won't make two observers and send one at each base and one to yours and have units split up at each base with observers at both in case of banshee harass. I think it's well worth the 200 gas which could only get you one more tank. Cloak banshees at both expansions cause a lot more havoc and panic than one if you ask me.
I prefer it if you don't use my thread to tell me the build is garbage and that yours is better and just advertise your thread. All builds have their strength and weaknesses.
This may work against lesser skilled protoss (even up to high master) but a toss with very crisp timings is going to crush you if you wait too long on one base
This goes for all all-in's. Every single one is possible to hold right now, so that does not really say much about this build that it can be held. If your enemy has seen this specific build ten times and knows you're going to do it chances are he's going to crush it. If he's never seen it before or doesn't expect that kind of a push he's likely going to lose to it.
I'd like for people to keep in mind that this build can be countered just like every other build I don't disagree, and for those trying to counter it I suggest lots of zealots and not stalkers.
he problem with a late 1/1/1 all in is against a fe, i only recommend doing this if u are positive that he didnt 15 nex or 1 gate fe
In mid-high masters players often lose even when going 1 gate FE or 15 nex, due to the massive mining time they lose with cloaked banshees at two bases and forcing them to pull probes and make extra observers until they do and a few probe and time losses. This is of course bad play on their part but it can be effective still.
On September 17 2011 04:09 OutlaW- wrote: if that works for you, its okay if you ever come to a point where it just wont work anymore, try allowing for an earlier timing
Every timing has a vulnerability, this is just the way I find to be most effective. If you're positive they went 15 nexus or 1 gate nexus you can do MVP's 2 rax tank scv push which is almost impossible to hold off doing 15 nex or 1 gate nex as seen vs huk. I think this even works well vs those builds though in most ladder game cases. It gets worse once you get to tip top masters just as all all-in's do.
Great video! Just started playing terran after some time with protoss, and I don't really know any builds atm, so stuff like this is really helping out, thanks!
EPT
