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The Infestor: An Honest Discussion

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 00:28:31
August 24 2011 23:59 GMT
#1
Lets talk about:
[image loading]

90 health, armored.

Without upgrades, it can take 7 shots from a stalker, 5 shots from a marauder, 4 shots from a mobile tank, 2 shots from a siege tank, 10 ticks of the void ray's laser (starting from 0 charge), and three hits from an Ultralisk.



It is known mostly for Fungal Growth.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Fungal Growth costs 75 energy, which the Infestor can be upgraded to spawn with.

Fungal Growth deals 4.5 damage every 0.5 seconds for 4 seconds, dealing 36 total damage to all effected units. Armored units take 47 damage over 4 seconds. It has a range of 9, and a radius of 2, having a maximum effective range of 11.

Units effected by fungal growth cannot use any movement ability, including "move" "patrol" "attack" "blink" "charge" and "burrow".

[image loading]

  • Fungal growth prevents vikings and siege tanks from changing attack modes.
  • Fungal growth effects a carrier's interceptors, and PREVENTS THEM FROM ATTACKING
  • Fungal growth kills a patch of larvae in 1 shot.
  • Fungal growth prevents units from being loaded into a dropship of any type.

Fungal growth, rapidly reapplied to workers kills them in a short amount of time:
  • Drones: 5 seconds
  • SCVs: 5 seconds
  • Probes: 4.5 seconds

An entire mineral line can die in 5 seconds, but the infestors only need to live for 2 seconds after their first cast. It would take 2 infestors to kill the entire mineral line.



The second ability it is known for is:

[image loading]

[image loading]

Infested Terran costs 25 energy, and can be cast while burrowed. It summons the unit "Infested Terran".
The Infested Terran has 50 health, and 9.3 DPS unupgraded. The Infested Terran moves at a speed of 0.94 off creep, and 1.22 speed on creep.

For comparison:

  • a base marine has 45 health and 7 DPS.
  • an upgraded marine has 55 health and 7 DPS.
  • An upgraded and stimmed marine has 45 (55-10=45) health and 10.5 DPS.
  • The averages of the maximum and minimum starting health and DPS of a marine is 50 health and 8.75 DPS, meaning on average, Infested Terrans are slightly stronger in combat.
  • A marine costs 1 food, 50 minerals, and has greatly higher mobility. An infested Terran costs no food, no money, and has less mobility.
  • In a fight with equal upgrades and the same amount of marines vs. Infested Terrans, Infested Terrans kill marines, even with combat shield and stimpack.


[image loading]

Infested Terrans commit suicide when their time runs out. They lift their rifles up, and they blow their brains out.

5 Infestors can make 40 Infested Terrans while burrowed. Assuming none of them die, that's 372 DPS for 30 seconds. That's a maximum of 11,160 damage, a little more than 11 gateways worth of damage. That's with 0 attack upgrades.

5 Infestors can make 40 Infested Terrans while burrowed. With +3 ranged attacks, that's 516 DPS for 30 seconds. That is a maximum total of 15,480 damage. More than enough to kill 4 Barracks, 4 attachments, 1 Command Center, and 152 supply of supply depots.



The final ability of the Infestor is:

[image loading]

[image loading]

This ability requires 100 energy, and must be researched before it can be used.

Neural Parasite can mind control any permanent unit in the game, with the single exception of the Ultralisk. This effect lasts 15 seconds. It is similar to the Orbital Command's "scan" abillity, in the sense that the inappropriate use of this ability is a waste of precious energy, however when used correctly, it is the difference between winning and losing.

[image loading]

  • You can neural parasite an enemy Zerg's larvae. The unit you construct will be yours.
  • You can neural parasite enemy workers to take over the enemy race. This is comparable to other taunts such as manner MULES and manner Nexuses.
  • Enemy transports which have units loaded may not be the target of Neural Parasite.




[image loading]

The Infestor is the pinnacle of Zerg spell casting. He has with him what is most probably the highest maximum potential damage output of any unit in the game. But what he has in offensive capability is not simply delivered unto any player who spawns him. His damage is entirely based on player skill. However, for all his power, he lacks the simple defensive capability of even a stalker.

What is your take on this unit? Is it too difficult to utilize because of its lack of defensive capability? Is its maximum offensive potential too great? Have any crazy stories or replays of the infestor being used in a game you played? Lets hear about it or see it.


[image loading]

A message from Mr. Infestor Bubblesworth:
"Be civilized, don't just say 'OP' and leave. I am a highly intelligent being and I deserve to be treated with respect."
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Jesushooves
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada553 Posts
August 25 2011 00:02 GMT
#2
Sick OP :D
Lose its good, after will be win.
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
August 25 2011 00:03 GMT
#3
the infestor fungal reminds me of a storm that freezes units, i never understood it.
:]
dbosworld
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States317 Posts
August 25 2011 00:03 GMT
#4
Wow! nice write up. Love dem infestors
Former CAL-I/CPL CounterStrike Player - Halo1PC CPL/CAL Player
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 00:05:06
August 25 2011 00:03 GMT
#5
I don't think anyone above master level thinks they're hard to use. I mean, it's basic positioning and then F click F click F click. Pretty much like templars.

Anyway, I am a T and Z user and I see no problem with them. I just don't see what imbalances they create. Would I want them to be harder to use? Of course, I want the game to have more micro in general, for every race. The only race that has even slightly interesting micro, in my opinion, is Terran. And Terran could still use more.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Stam
Profile Joined April 2011
24 Posts
August 25 2011 00:04 GMT
#6
Obligatory link to ITG discussion:

Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
August 25 2011 00:04 GMT
#7
I think all the spellcasters in the game are really powerful.

It's a unit with a lot of power, but is also accordingly extremely expensive and dies incredibly easy, making it difficult to manage successfully.

It also creates nice micro tensions between HT and Infestor and Ghost and Infestor - each other spellcaster can hard counter an Infestor, so I don't think there's any grounds to say they're OP. I think Ghosts and High Templar are equally powerful.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 00:05:37
August 25 2011 00:04 GMT
#8
On August 25 2011 09:03 vOdToasT wrote:
I don't think anyone above master level thinks they're hard to use. I mean, it's basic positioning and then F click F click F click. Pretty much like templars.

Anyway, I am a T and Z user and I see no problem with them. I just don't see what imbalances they create.


I agree, in a sense. Their ability scales with player skill, and thus they are only "imbalanced" when utilized by a greater player vs. a weaker player.

On August 25 2011 09:04 Stam wrote:
Obligatory link to ITG discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ul3LEtMQzw


That was a good episode.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
DomiNater
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States527 Posts
August 25 2011 00:04 GMT
#9
I <3 Infestors. If your control sucks with them go play a couple of FFA's and just mass infestors.

You'll get the hang of them pretty soon. =D
After I captured the elephant in the room, swept her under the rug for the hell of it... I welcome you to the melting through, of a planet that was selfish in its development of a healthy view.
pulpSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States31 Posts
August 25 2011 00:06 GMT
#10
At the cost of all that stuff the infestor can do, it is a fragile as a wet piece of paper.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
August 25 2011 00:06 GMT
#11
On August 25 2011 09:06 pulpSC wrote:
At the cost of all that stuff the infestor can do, it is a fragile as a wet piece of paper.


Quite.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 00:08:06
August 25 2011 00:07 GMT
#12
Infested terran is probably too strong a spell as is, if you sneak a couple infestors into a base an spam them while forces are out of position, you'll take down command centers. Dealing with them without AoE is pretty much impossible for protoss, and thrown into big engagements they can do absurd amounts of damage while soaking hits.

I have no issue with fungal growth or neural parasite though.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
MK4512
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada938 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 00:09:43
August 25 2011 00:08 GMT
#13
I feel like fungal is a little bit OP right now, whereas most zerg units are UP, so it kind of balances out, but I don't think in the correct way. Infested terrans seem a little OP right now, because of how hard eggs are to kill and how quickly they can be cast.

As a protoss, having 46 damage + lack of mobility kills any kind of play other than 'deathball' play. Because blink stalkers, etc. becomes rather un-viable.

Combined with lings, ultras, or broods, infestors get even better.

Personally I think that infestors should be nerfed a bit, but not before other z units are buffed.
Chill: "Please let us know when you will be streaming yourself eating a hat so I can put it on the calendar. Thanks."
Kevincible
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada70 Posts
August 25 2011 00:09 GMT
#14
It's big too.. in comparison to protoss and terran spell caster equivalents such as ghost and HT, meaning AOE attacks are less effective.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 25 2011 00:10 GMT
#15
There is never honesty in Balance discussions :\

I actually think its pretty balanced. But I don't think i will say anything more than that because after participating in a few balance discussion threads I don't think I can not rage over some of the comments people make :\
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
whoopingchow
Profile Joined June 2011
United States293 Posts
August 25 2011 00:10 GMT
#16
I think it'd also be relevant to mention the costs of the unit itself and corresponding upgrades.

It always makes me laugh when I watch a replay and the player obviously has the Infestors in the same control group as his roaches. XD

And I don't think they're any more OP than psi storms or cloak+nukes. I think they all sort of even out with the amount of damage cast, time to cast, and energy needed to cast.
Rasun
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States787 Posts
August 25 2011 00:10 GMT
#17
Very well done OP, Infestors are my favorite unit in the game. Seeing incredible infestor play is awesome to watch and can be so much fun to execute. As for balance.....I really like where the infestor is at right now but then again, they are my favorite unit in the game. I think the power that FG has is necessary. If anything, I could see an energy cost increase to IT's being possible, I don't know though, its a very controversial topic.
"People need to just settle the fuck down!"- Djwheat <3
Juvant
Profile Joined April 2011
United States723 Posts
August 25 2011 00:11 GMT
#18
Have there been any balance complaints about them on the highest level? (Korea)

Just wondering, feel like there are bigger, more obvious fish to fry before anything else should be adjusted. But I guess a discussion can't hurt.

I do agree they are easier to use than to counter, but the same could be said with a great many strategies in the game.
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 00:12:50
August 25 2011 00:11 GMT
#19
On August 25 2011 09:09 Kevincible wrote:
It's big too.. in comparison to protoss and terran spell caster equivalents such as ghost and HT, meaning AOE attacks are less effective.


I think this may have been done on purpose, to limit the extreme vs. armored splash damage of Siege Tanks against them. If they were as large as a templar, it would be all too easy to kill a dozen in one shot. It's really the only spellcaster who is supposed to go out on his own, and do his own thing, with the exception of Ghosts nuking bases. So it is necessary, I believe.

On August 25 2011 09:10 Rasun wrote:
Very well done OP, Infestors are my favorite unit in the game. Seeing incredible infestor play is awesome to watch and can be so much fun to execute. As for balance.....I really like where the infestor is at right now but then again, they are my favorite unit in the game. I think the power that FG has is necessary. If anything, I could see an energy cost increase to IT's being possible, I don't know though, its a very controversial topic.


Good infestor play is what keeps me on the edge of my seat when I watch a tournament.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
seoulsun
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands80 Posts
August 25 2011 00:13 GMT
#20
u do know that without infestors zerg were pretty shit

this was blizzard attempt to fix a broken race

User was warned for this post
o/
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