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Hey guys, heres a little guide of one of my favorite strats in TvZ, its kind of cheesy, but I find it hard to beat TvZ in a straight macro game so I like to favor rush builds.
The start is a regular 2 rax rush, you can incorporate this with a bunker rush or a proxy rax in order to put maximum pressure on the zerg. The goal of this is to deny the natural expansion and delay the lair, if you can keep your bunker hidden until it pops you should be fine.
Build Order:
+ Show Spoiler +
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
@150
Barracks (2)
@100% Barracks
Orbital Command
Marines throughout
You can keep pushing with this rush and it isn't hard to end the game here, but if the zerg plays solid defense or you make a crucial mistake, there is a backup plan.
My backup plan is a cloak banshee rush. Once the hatch at the natural goes down, I grab both gasses and the a factory at 100 gas, and 2 fast starports. While the ports are building, grab 2 tech labs either through your factory or barracks. Transition the starports to the factory, and then immidietly pump out banshees and cloak.
The transition into cloaked banshee is dependent on whether or not you stopped an overlord from scouting your base, and if you managed to put enough pressure on to prevent the zerg from teching to lair.
Tips:
+ Show Spoiler +Be extremely aggressive with your marines, especially if you have a proxy barracks, but do not put them in a situation in which they can be surrounded easily by lings. One of the easiest ways for a zerg to defend a 2 rax is with spine crawlers, so keep unloading your bunkers to poke in, snipe building spine crawlers, and then retreat.
+ Show Spoiler +You can either win with the 2 rax push, or just use it to delay the lair, so don't be afraid if it fails.
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This is a pretty awful guide.
I don't know what league you're in, but most Zergs at Diamond and up can stop 2-Rax pressure easily, without losing their natural. This is especially true on large maps like Tal'darim and Shakuras.
A Zerg that defends your 2-Rax will scout and see you haven't taken your natural, run a ling up the ramp and see the low Marine count, and guess either BFH or Banshees are coming. They'll begin an Evo Chamber and Roach Warren, the produce a Spore at each mineral line, along with Queens and Roaches. They don't even need Lair and Overseer.
Also, you don't even have replays to show this strategy working on someone.
I predict mods are going to close this soon.
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I also 2 rax into banshee, but unlike this guide I don't commit to the two rax. I push out with 6-8 marines (depending on map) and just try to do minor damage. Maybe kill an overlord or a queen and then retreat. Hopefully this gets them to make lings instead of drones.
If you hit the retreat timing cleanly the attack won't cost you anything. Then when the marines get back patrol them to deny scouting.
I also start gas as soon as I can afford it after the 2 rax and orbital, hence nospare minerals for the bunkers. This has a softer early attack, but I think it depends less on Zerg messing up early defense.
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On May 23 2011 03:36 madcow305 wrote:
This is a pretty awful guide.
I don't know what league you're in, but most Zergs at Diamond and up can stop 2-Rax pressure easily, without losing their natural. This is especially true on large maps like Tal'darim and Shakuras.
A Zerg that defends your 2-Rax will scout and see you haven't taken your natural, run a ling up the ramp and see the low Marine count, and guess either BFH or Banshees are coming. They'll begin an Evo Chamber and Roach Warren, the produce a Spore at each mineral line, along with Queens and Roaches. They don't even need Lair and Overseer.
Also, you don't even have replays to show this strategy working on someone.
I predict mods are going to close this soon.
... Well it depend on map and unit control. Hell, I am in master and sometimes I just out right kill the Zerg with 2 rax with out having to touch their natural, and no they see me no the 2 rax I don't proxy it, most of the times.....
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I hate to be a douche, but you just pointed out the obvious for TvZ and then gave a halfway cheesey back up plan. If zerg 1 bases it from the beginning, you are screwed because that means a baneling bust around 6 minutes. Look, you could have some marines to deal with it, but your odds of surviving aren't that great if you lose the marines and then go for banshees.
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On May 23 2011 04:43 NoisyNinja wrote:
I hate to be a douche, but you just pointed out the obvious for TvZ and then gave a halfway cheesey back up plan. If zerg 1 bases it from the beginning, you are screwed because that means a baneling bust around 6 minutes. Look, you could have some marines to deal with it, but your odds of surviving aren't that great if you lose the marines and then go for banshees.
...If a zerg one bases, the natural response is a thicker wall with bunkers, pending roaches or banes inc. Therefore, a 2 rax into 2 port is always a good follow up to a 1 base Z.
Zergs the better the get the better they scout. It's not what they see, as opposed to what they don't see. They don't see nat taken, nor hellions or tanks. Can sac and OL and see very few marines, and even a starport. All it takes is 2-3 MORE queens than normal (4-5 total) and 1-2 spores per base and you just lost. They go lair, take third, and get spire and your 2-1-2 is dead. 1-1-2 is better for this 2 port banshee cheese follow up.
Reactor hellions -> 2 port -> hellion harass and banshees hit queens and minerals. 2 rax just slows up the real cheese, the banshees.
And yes, this is the most common build really... It's been so used it's almost dead now. I don't know why you insisted on posting 'your tvz' as if you watch say.. namchair its all he does most TvZ is 2 port cloak rush.
Nothing new, read and search before posting. Hate to be 'that guy', but this is getting ridiculous. Everyone posting 'their' build which is just already widely used.
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This doesent make sense 2 port banshee with cloak is way to much gas for 1 base.
plus youre 2 racks will never stop him for THAT long. Imo youre guide will only work on very low lvl.
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On May 23 2011 06:05 Shadowcloak wrote:
This doesent make sense 2 port banshee with cloak is way to much gas for 1 base.
plus youre 2 racks will never stop him for THAT long. Imo youre guide will only work on very low lvl.
As ridiculous as it may sound, you can actually support two port banshee with cloak off of one base. I do agree with you saying that this only works at lower levels.
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2 port banshee is supportable off of one base, this strat works for me 90% of the time in high plat low diamond games. Baneling busts are easy to deal with, stack ramp entrance with double layer of supply depots. Its inconveint at times but it saves your base.
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I don't know, I personally this will work a lot of the time if executed properly. 2 rax into 2 port banshee CAN work (albeit probably only once against the same person). Reason i say so is because of the replay pack LiquidWater released. You guys should check it out, he beats top GM players with that build O_O
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216898
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On May 23 2011 07:05 MissPringles wrote:I don't know, I personally this will work a lot of the time if executed properly. 2 rax into 2 port banshee CAN work (albeit probably only once against the same person). Reason i say so is because of the replay pack LiquidWater released. You guys should check it out, he beats top GM players with that build O_O http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216898
This post was before the latest patch changes, with the new spore crawler timing it would be alot easier to defend against this. Also as as zerg if i see a person commiting i throw down 3/4 more spores(depending on severity) and just drone up like a mad man.
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On May 23 2011 07:11 Lewis` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 07:05 MissPringles wrote:I don't know, I personally this will work a lot of the time if executed properly. 2 rax into 2 port banshee CAN work (albeit probably only once against the same person). Reason i say so is because of the replay pack LiquidWater released. You guys should check it out, he beats top GM players with that build O_O http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216898 This post was before the latest patch changes, with the new spore crawler timing it would be alot easier to defend against this. Also as as zerg if i see a person commiting i throw down 3/4 more spores(depending on severity) and just drone up like a mad man.
Ahhh right, I didn't take that into consideration >.<. SIlly me, forgot about the patch!
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Uhh, really? As zerg, I just do a 14 hatch vT and can make the bare number of lings to hold off the attack. You're heavily assuming the zerg will lose their expansion due to poor micro and the belief that the player won't make any lings, which most zergs will build after their hatch finishes.
Once I do hold you off, if I see you stop making marines or anything, I'll just counter push via a baneling bust and take out your economy.
Also, it seems terran players recently just always go banshees so I always end up making 2 spores at each base anyways, because I've already got a huge economic lead from before, so I can afford those spores. I can also just scout their base.
The only problem I see is if the terran goes for a 2 port banshee all-in following the 2 rax pressure.
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The one I used when 2 Rax was kinda not that new any more.
12/14 Rax - Run to zerg base and back
OC
Double Gas
Cut Marines at 6ish in base to deny ovie
Fact -> 2 tech labs
Double Port -> Cloak and 2 Banshees.
It should come out around 7 minutes or so IIRC. Haven't done it in forever.
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EPT
