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Extinction of Religion

Forum Index > Closed
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TMStarcraft
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia686 Posts
March 23 2011 01:24 GMT
#1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

A study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.

The study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.

The team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.

The result, reported at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas, US, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.

The team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.


Nonlinear dynamics is invoked to explain a wide range of physical phenomena in which a number of factors play a part.

One of the team, Daniel Abrams of Northwestern University, put forth a similar model in 2003 to put a numerical basis behind the decline of lesser-spoken world languages.

At its heart is the competition between speakers of different languages, and the "utility" of speaking one instead of another.

"The idea is pretty simple," said Richard Wiener of the Research Corporation for Science Advancement, and the University of Arizona.

"It posits that social groups that have more members are going to be more attractive to join, and it posits that social groups have a social status or utility.

"For example in languages, there can be greater utility or status in speaking Spanish instead of [the dying language] Quechuan in Peru, and similarly there's some kind of status or utility in being a member of a religion or not."

Some of the census data the team used date from the 19th century

Dr Wiener continued: "In a large number of modern secular democracies, there's been a trend that folk are identifying themselves as non-affiliated with religion; in the Netherlands the number was 40%, and the highest we saw was in the Czech Republic, where the number was 60%."

The team then applied their nonlinear dynamics model, adjusting parameters for the relative social and utilitarian merits of membership of the "non-religious" category.

They found, in a study published online, that those parameters were similar across all the countries studied, suggesting that similar behaviour drives the mathematics in all of them.

And in all the countries, the indications were that religion was headed toward extinction.

However, Dr Wiener told the conference that the team was working to update the model with a "network structure" more representative of the one at work in the world.

"Obviously we don't really believe this is the network structure of a modern society, where each person is influenced equally by all the other people in society," he said.

However, he told BBC News that he thought it was "a suggestive result".

"It's interesting that a fairly simple model captures the data, and if those simple ideas are correct, it suggests where this might be going.

"Obviously much more complicated things are going on with any one individual, but maybe a lot of that averages out."


I just wanted post yay! and end it there. But I'm truly glad that Australia was included in that list. Frankly I'm suprised that such a list can actually exist. Will religion ever disappear? Probably not, but small steps towards something cannot be a bad thing.

What do you guys think? How do you feel about your country being/not being listed? Religion is a touchy subject but it is one the definitely needs to be discussed.
||
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9858 Posts
March 23 2011 01:28 GMT
#2
Hmm, I'm not suprised Canada is on that list.

Personally I think it's a good thing, in the modern world I just don't feel it plays such an important role. It will lower religious conflicts and I just believe it's not something necessary anymore.

Crazy to think that 500 years ago religion controlled much of the world - and now it's turning into this.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
TheRhox
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada868 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 01:30:17
March 23 2011 01:29 GMT
#3
This thread cant go well.
Glaven
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada554 Posts
March 23 2011 01:30 GMT
#4
^ Same, as a canadian, here's to hoping. (Though religion threads will usually get shut down)
Special Tactics
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 23 2011 01:30 GMT
#5
On March 23 2011 10:28 Skillz_Man wrote:
Hmm, I'm not suprised Canada is on that list.

Personally I think it's a good thing, in the modern world I just don't feel it plays such an important role. It will lower religious conflicts and I just believe it's not something necessary anymore.

Crazy to think that 500 years ago religion controlled much of the world - and now it's turning into this.

I'm kind of wondering why Canada would be there and not the US with its "separation of church and state". I guess it's more a cultural thing than legal.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19053 Posts
March 23 2011 01:31 GMT
#6
Religion is a scourge and I'm glad it's suggested it's going to die out (as this is only a suggestion). The US is full of nutjobs, and a lot of those nutjubs also tend to be religious. Coincidence? Probably. But nobody has ever let that stop them from using such an argument.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 01:32:53
March 23 2011 01:31 GMT
#7
I wish my country were listed (the united states) but certain people here would gladly welcome a theocracy. Just recently we had legislation being run through the house of reps to confirm the "Under God" portion of the pledge of allegiance.

On March 23 2011 10:30 Roe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2011 10:28 Skillz_Man wrote:
Hmm, I'm not suprised Canada is on that list.

Personally I think it's a good thing, in the modern world I just don't feel it plays such an important role. It will lower religious conflicts and I just believe it's not something necessary anymore.

Crazy to think that 500 years ago religion controlled much of the world - and now it's turning into this.

I'm kind of wondering why Canada would be there and not the US with its "separation of church and state". I guess it's more a cultural thing than legal.


The US is easily one of the most religious western nations. It isn't about separation of church and state it about separation of church and mind.
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
Dolky
Profile Joined August 2004
Finland67 Posts
March 23 2011 01:31 GMT
#8
I'm really happy to see Finland on the list, as in my opinion religion doesn't really belong to a modern, civilized society.
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
March 23 2011 01:32 GMT
#9
On March 23 2011 10:29 TheRhox wrote:
This thread cant go well.


I'll be interested to see some of these comments.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 01:40:19
March 23 2011 01:32 GMT
#10
On March 23 2011 10:24 TMStarcraft wrote:

I just wanted post yay! and end it there. But I'm truly glad that Australia was included in that list. Frankly I'm suprised that such a list can actually exist. Will religion ever disappear? Probably not, but small steps towards something cannot be a bad thing.

What do you guys think? How do you feel about your country being/not being listed? Religion is a touchy subject but it is one the definitely needs to be discussed.

While you certainly have the right to your opinion, the rhetoric used here seems like it will start a flame war.

After all, we're not here to bash religion, are we?

On the article, horribly worded. Religion will never go extinct. It may have gone down in certain regions. Will it lower its prevalance in, say, the middle east? Or a large portion of America? Probably not. Beliefs are passed down from generation to generation, and in these regions, not being religiously affiliated makes one a pariah to an extent.

Btw, I'm lutheran, and won't renounce my beliefs. Ever.

Also, I'm expecting a lot of red text in this thread in a few moments.
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
March 23 2011 01:32 GMT
#11
As some one who has been a christian for his entire life, you eventually are going to have to start killing people before you make religion extinct. Whether that is sad to hear or not, it's the truth.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44313 Posts
March 23 2011 01:32 GMT
#12
Congratulations to those countries

I wonder if it's becoming less religious here in America too. I'm pretty sure that the number of non-theists (agnostics, atheists, etc.) has been increasing, although we have a loooong way to go before we're truly a secularist country, let alone rid of religion entirely.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Malgrif
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1095 Posts
March 23 2011 01:32 GMT
#13
"God is dead" -Nietzsche, 1882

"Hell, it's about time" -Starcraft 2, 2010
for there to be pro there has to be noob.
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
March 23 2011 01:32 GMT
#14
On March 23 2011 10:24 TMStarcraft wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

Show nested quote +
A study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.

The study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.

The team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.

The result, reported at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas, US, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.

The team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.


Nonlinear dynamics is invoked to explain a wide range of physical phenomena in which a number of factors play a part.

One of the team, Daniel Abrams of Northwestern University, put forth a similar model in 2003 to put a numerical basis behind the decline of lesser-spoken world languages.

At its heart is the competition between speakers of different languages, and the "utility" of speaking one instead of another.

"The idea is pretty simple," said Richard Wiener of the Research Corporation for Science Advancement, and the University of Arizona.

"It posits that social groups that have more members are going to be more attractive to join, and it posits that social groups have a social status or utility.

"For example in languages, there can be greater utility or status in speaking Spanish instead of [the dying language] Quechuan in Peru, and similarly there's some kind of status or utility in being a member of a religion or not."

Some of the census data the team used date from the 19th century

Dr Wiener continued: "In a large number of modern secular democracies, there's been a trend that folk are identifying themselves as non-affiliated with religion; in the Netherlands the number was 40%, and the highest we saw was in the Czech Republic, where the number was 60%."

The team then applied their nonlinear dynamics model, adjusting parameters for the relative social and utilitarian merits of membership of the "non-religious" category.

They found, in a study published online, that those parameters were similar across all the countries studied, suggesting that similar behaviour drives the mathematics in all of them.

And in all the countries, the indications were that religion was headed toward extinction.

However, Dr Wiener told the conference that the team was working to update the model with a "network structure" more representative of the one at work in the world.

"Obviously we don't really believe this is the network structure of a modern society, where each person is influenced equally by all the other people in society," he said.

However, he told BBC News that he thought it was "a suggestive result".

"It's interesting that a fairly simple model captures the data, and if those simple ideas are correct, it suggests where this might be going.

"Obviously much more complicated things are going on with any one individual, but maybe a lot of that averages out."


I just wanted post yay! and end it there. But I'm truly glad that Australia was included in that list. Frankly I'm suprised that such a list can actually exist. Will religion ever disappear? Probably not, but small steps towards something cannot be a bad thing.

What do you guys think? How do you feel about your country being/not being listed? Religion is a touchy subject but it is one the definitely needs to be discussed.


You just wanted to post yay that religion is becoming extinct? Really? I think everyone deserves their own opinions but I would not post something like this... If something is going to offend people, why make a thread on it and start a flame war?
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
goiflin
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1218 Posts
March 23 2011 01:33 GMT
#15
This is totally going to get shut down, but I'm pretty happy that it'll die out. There's alot of issues that religion causes nowadays that far outweigh any benefits that it provides. It served it's purpose getting us to where we are, though.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
March 23 2011 01:34 GMT
#16
On March 23 2011 10:31 Nothingtosay wrote:
I wish my country were listed (the united states) but certain people here would gladly welcome a theocracy. Just recently we had legislation being run through the house of reps to confirm the "Under God" portion of the pledge of allegiance.

Fun Fact: The phrase "Under God" was not in the original pledge, but rather was added in the 40's or early 50's. It was basically a little jab at the soviet union. The USSR strongly denied any and all religion, and adding "Under God" to the pledge was just another way to rile up the populace with anti-soviet sentiment.
Who called in the fleet?
Warf
Profile Joined June 2010
Netherlands71 Posts
March 23 2011 01:34 GMT
#17
i got the list from this study from highest percentage of non believers in god(s) to lowest
[image loading]

Kinetik_Inferno
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1431 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-23 01:36:06
March 23 2011 01:34 GMT
#18
"religion today is the descendant of the explanation for lightning."-me, just now.

as an agnostic, i believe that if religion helps see someone trough their life, and guides them an helps them be a better person, then they can just keep on believing, an good for them.
Marl
Profile Joined January 2010
United States692 Posts
March 23 2011 01:35 GMT
#19
One less thing for people to find different about each other. I'm sure those in power will find something to replace it though.
Consolidate
Profile Joined February 2010
United States829 Posts
March 23 2011 01:35 GMT
#20
I'm liking the trend. The study is just based on a mathematical trend though. As for real world factors, the Catholic Church's curious habit of molesting children has left a lot of Europeans disillusioned with Catholicism.

Eh, but here's hoping that increased standards of living and universal education will eradicate religion eventually.
Creature posessed the the spirit of inquiry and bloodlust - Adventure Time
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