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I'm curious how much APM (and more generally, good mechanics / macro) correlates with ladder performance. Obviously, developing better APM and mechanics will make any single player do better than they did before, but what I'm really wondering is whether most players around the same ladder ranking have very similar APMs, or whether there's a big range at all skill levels.
I'm a mid-high Diamond random 1v1 player (around 2600 currently and just over a 50/50 win rate with 750-ish games played), but my APM and mechanics are very weak compared to most players at my ladder ranking from what I can tell. I make up for it with really strong game sense and knowledge of the metagame; when I get paired against a good player, most of the time they're faster with their micro, but I have a better idea of what the optimal commands for each unit actually are, so I can generate more advantage with fewer actions. Similarly, my macro tends to slip up (delayed production cycles, slight hiccups in build timing, letting money get a bit too high, etc.) a bit more than theirs, but I use good map control and solid knowledge of what the strengths and weaknesses of my and my opponent's builds are. My mechanics aren't quite as good, but frankly I'm just smarter and more knowledgeable about the game than most of my opponents, so I can win more often than not toward the top of Diamond even though my average APM is typically not much higher than 60 and even my burst APM in combat usually tops out around 100-120, which isn't even that high for an average APM at my level. I'm wondering how common this is (or the reverse, for that matter; people who don't really know the metagame and have a billion different builds to take advantage of any situation, but have a higher ladder ranking than you'd expect simply because their mechanics/apm are exceptional).
So, to open up some discussion on this, I pose the following questions:
1 How do you think your APM and mechanics compare to other players around your ladder ranking? Are you consistently much better or much worse in these areas than your evenly matched opponents on ladder?
2 How consistent do you think other players' APMs/mechanical skills are in general at your level of ladder? Is there a clear average APM and mechanical skill level with a few outliers who break the trend, or does it vary a ton from person to person? If all you knew about some player was their average APM and a couple clips of how well they macro in a mid-late game situation when nothing else is going on, do you think you could give a fairly accurate guess of where they are on the ladder?
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I have enough APM to deal with the situation at hand. As zerg I have about 150-160 APM and this generally deals well with the game. Sometimes, in a faster-paced game, I get up to 180 APM because that's what's necessary. As Terran I average out about 100-110 APM because I play a very macro-heavy Tank-based style and only ever need a lot of APM when doing multiple drops or dealing with muta harass. However, this being said I am high Diamond with Zerg and high Platinum with Terran so my APM may need to increase when I get farther up the ladder. For instance, I have reached an instantaneous APM of 700 when splitting a large hydra ball. There is no average APM. I have faced people in platinum with 200 APM that I have rolled, and those with 60 who legitimately shut down every single thing I did. I'm thinking of one game in particular where the guy had 60 APM and just dummied me.
APM is not something to obsess about, though. Your skill is determined by the actions that you take. Your actions are determined by your APM and knowledge. As long as you have enough APM to support your knowledge(able to do what you are trying to do) then you don't need to worry about APM.
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THE
SEARCH
FUNCTION
GOD. DAMNIT.
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1. In general my apm is usually higher than my opponents (mine is generally ~200), whereas my opponents are 100~. The main reason for that however is because i ladder on more than one account so my "main" is only 1800 diamond, even tho i practicew with master league ppl (prolly why i have gotten relatively higher apm than my opponents during ladder play). In general apm really makes very few differences in the game until the mid-late game. In the mid-late game, macro becomes key, as well as constantly having good unit placement and map awareness, which requires a bit more apm imo. Early game is more of build production buildings, scout, build units, but there isnt alot going on.
2. The ppl i play on ladder vary from 60-over 200 apm, so i guess there isnt a clear consistancy, and knowing some1's apm really doesnt give too much indication on skill. I can easily be beat by ppl with 60 apm, but win against ppl with 400. Apm can be helpful in a game like broodwar, since mechanics are more heavily used imo.
Apm really only helps if you do a lot of micro-oriented/ multipronged attack, if you want to increase it, try spamming abit, or just moving ur units around to get your hands used to faster speeds, but overall it really makes no difference unless you're at the top top level where 60 isnt really going to cut it.
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United States2382 Posts
As for 2, no. You can spam a shitton to boost your APM not doing a damn thing for your actual game. Yes, there is some correlation between speed and efficacy of the player at high levels, but you can literary play faster than NaDa or Jaedong, and still be D- on iCCup. Without the knowledge base, it's useless, you're doing bad stuff faster. There used to be guys on ICCup who played pretty fast, macroed fairly well, but stayed pretty much around D/C range because they just weren't playing effectively. They're different games, but the same concept applies.
I can play really fast and macro excellent as zerg, but if I'm droning while I should be pumping units, I'll never get above silver/gold. If you don't have the knowledge to combine with the good/fast mechanics, it's all useless.
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APM is far less important in SC2 than it is in SC:BW considering Automine, and unlimited building/unit selection
that being said, you only really need around 150~ apm to do everything needed, except in micro situations where your microing while macroing
APM however over time will become more important but i doubt it will ever be important to the point where someone with low apm cannot be competetive like in BW (the highest iCCup rank ive ever heard for some1 who didnt have really REALLY solid mechanics was Chill at B- (possibly B i dont remember that well) there could be others but they were really hammered by the APM needed in BW)
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2600 master T. 60-100 APM. most of the games i lose is not because i didnt move fast enough, its because i made a mistake. IMO 80 or so is all you really need to macro efficiently. the rest come from multitasking and micro.
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I'm at ~150 during battles and ~80 in between. I'm in Master.
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Unfortunately apm means alot less in this game. So 330/180 in bw which for me translates into ~220 sc2 apm doesn't mean shit, 2800 master here.
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APM isn't super important, but hand speed is, and they are different things.
The amount of actions you do per minute isn't so important, but individal actions do need to be quite quick and precise for a lot of purposes.
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Day 9 just did a live show about APM and the best way to use APM. Not just spamming. The technique of APM will determine the better play as long as APM is around 80-90.
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im 2700 masters and i generally have around 100 apm.
its not that i cant have higher apm, when i need it i can play comfortably at around 250 but in sc2 i just dont need it =/
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On February 02 2011 13:31 VPC wrote:
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hopefully i dont get banned or warned for this but... this is amazing
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United States11637 Posts
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EPT
