EPTTL Mafia XXXVI
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
| ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
It's 5 am and I don't have time to read the past 3-4 pages, so I'll start tomorrow. Dun dun duuuuuun. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Bodyguard You have been chosen by the mayor to protect their life at all costs. While you are alive, the mayor cannot be killed or roleblocked. [Mafia-aligned players chosen as bodyguards will not protect town-aligned mayors. So if mayor WILL pick scum bodyguards, they just won't be much of a body-guard. Sure it would reveal who they are if mayor turns up dead with no bodyguards dying pre-flop, but then again, it also gives a scum mayor great opportunities to: a) pick townie bodyguards and then 2-3 days later start whining that they're not dying, therefore they must be scum b) pick one townie, one scum, have their mafia buddies kill the townie and then ask for a medic to protect the other bodyguard ...etc. So, the only awesome scenario is when mayor picks BOTH bodyguards scum. And the chances of that are somewhat non-existent, since if we knew who scum were, then we might as well lynch them, not place them as bodyguards for trolling purposes. Admittedly, I do not have much experience playing in Bodyguard games with this rule, so I might be missing out on some alternatives. Also, a note for the census ability: I believe the order they should get information is: 1. Number of Mafia 2. Number of SKs 3. Number of Godfathers Being the mayor, this information can/should be posted in the thread after each night, as I believe it is useful information for everyone, correct? I can't really tell if number of godfathers is more/less important than number of mafia/sk. I am guessing less, since it's probably just 1/2 godfathers anyway. 4. Number of blues After finding out the number of blues, only share with the PM circle if you have been recruited, as it will help keeping track of the blues and the possibly-fake blues. I don't see why the entire town would need to know this, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Since it's the very start of the game, we cannot be sure of the alignment of anyone. So, on the bodyguard selection issue, I would have to say that RnG-ing with the option of Veto would be my choice if I ran for mayor. It would work like this, mayor randomly chooses two people (out of everyone, or specially selected groups, like say... everyone else who ran for mayor). Post their name in the thread. If said people do not wish to be BG, they can veto. This will obviously put tremendous pressure on everyone who uses veto, but the reasons can be various: a) You're a townie but too scared to be a target b) You're a blue but your role is too important to risk being targeted early c) You're a mafia and if you get picked the mayor is imba! I know it sound scummy at first, but it can also gives town useful information. Here is why: a) A clever townie can say veto and then take a hit from Mafia because they think he is blue b) A blue player can hide in BG because mafia thinks he is green c) A mafia who has accepted being BG can easily be uncovered if he is role-checked (unless he is GF but in that case mayor will live for a long time anyway) I'm just putting it out there, if you think this is too helpful for scum, then please try to come up with another solution that is not completely random and has a high chance of picking scum/non-blues as BG on day one. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On January 24 2011 05:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Actually, I just thought of this: What if we chose the bodyguards based on volunteers? This could protect our blues from dying, as they only have to not volunteer. I'm also sure we won't get 24 people volunteering, as most people have some self-interest or sense of self-preservation. This would be most useful if we wanted two greens to be bodyguards. Anyone who volunteers will be put under instant scrutiny, so this would discourage mafia. Also, mafia would not put more than one member into the volunteer pool, or else there would be a high chance of picking two mafia bodyguards, which isn't really good for mafia, no matter mayoral alignment. The only problem is if we get a mafia mayor, he would have two townies protecting him. This set-up would rely heavily on DTs, as they would need to check and somehow release the information about the bodyguards right away, so that we knew they were town. This would force mafia to have to waste hits on the greens, or else make it look too much like the mayor is mafia. The problem arise though, when the mafia just leave the bodyguards, who are town, to try to get us to lynch our own mayor. What do you guys think? I think that there are a few flaws with this: - the best option for a townie mayor would be to have 2 mafia BGs (or at least one), but this setup will probably lead to him having 0 mafia BGs - the town will see who doesn't volunteer, but so will the mafia, so from the left-overs, they can subtract themselves and have a pool of players, a good deal of which are probably blue Either way, it's not a bad idea. I'm sure that no matter what we choose it will still have flaws in it. It'll be a matter of luck in the end imo. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
If the picks go wrong and mayor is dealt with during the first night, we will have absolutely 0 information from census. So the best scenario would be hope that one of the picks is a blue-vet. That way, it will take at least 3KPs to get to the mayor (assuming that the other BG is red). And it's not really worth saying what we should risk sacrificing for a scum until we figure out a way to pick BGs. Because if we're gonna pick volunteers, I'm pretty sure neither will be a scum. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On January 24 2011 09:08 BrownBear wrote: Actually, a thought provoking idea. Would it be worth it to have veterans claim, and select them as bodyguards? I'm not convinced that it would work that well, but I'd like to hear some debate on it. Actually, our best best case scenario is to have the SK picked as a bodyguard... I thought about that myself, but the main idea behind why vets are good is because mafia don't know that it takes two hits to kill them. If mafia doesn't know what the BGs are, then they will probably have to stack hits on them anyway, assuming that they will be protected by a medic as well. If they would know, then it's only a matter of distributing KPs. Of course, medics will be able to protect, but do you really want the medics protecting just two targets for the game and have the rest of the town picked off? Best case scenario? The SK and the GF both as bodyguards (with a blue DT mayor or something).  | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Unless we try something like "we're picking volunteers" and then the mayor picks two random people out of those who did not volunteer. Which would have a higher chance of getting red/sk, but would make the rest of the town go WTF /hate. If I manage to come up with a good enough plan to do that I'll run for mayor myself lol. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
But I would like to hear more about the picking of Bodyguards, because it can possibly make or break this game. From everyone, not just mayor candidates. It would be nice to cook up a plan and come up with reds as BGs, or at least a higher chance than RnG-ing. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
The reason I'm not going for RoL is that, if he's mafia, the town is as good as dead. Kav may be more open to everyone's suggestions (including RoL), but I'm not sure what RoL would do. Be it scum or not. I won't deny that he's very experienced, but that would make the game incredibly difficult if he's red. Also, Kav someone semi-claimed of having a cool blue role. I don't know if that was a joke or not, but I'm gonna put a bit of trust into him. After all, if he does turn up scum-ish, we could always lynch him right? | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
So, it seems like Kav is gonna be our mayor. We're running out of time, so please state how BGs will be picked so we can come in with ideas while we still can. And as for census, sure, you do what you want, or what town wants, it doesn't really matter. But it makes most sense to go: - total mafia -> tell town - total SK -> tell town - total blues -> don't tell town (town doesn't need to know, unless you risk dying or something, but Mafia might benefit a lot from this piece of information) - then count doctors/dts/vigs/etc. (just in case someone checks GF, we may be able to flush him out if the blue role he fakes gets too many claims) - total GF is also ok, but let's see how many mafia there are. I doubt there will be too many GFs anyway I'd say... if anyone has a DIFFERENT idea, then feel free to share. My belief is that picking the BGs will have a much greater impact on the game. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
It's not perfect, but I believe it has a good chance (20-30%ish) of hitting a red in the BGs: Step 1: RnG 8 people (out of everyone BUT mayor candidates and people who already volunteered as BG), ask them to confirm/veto if they wanna be BG Step 2: Tally up the number of vetos, and lurkers, and mayor candidates (not relevant in this case, since it's just 1-2 other ppl). Step 3: a) If the number of vetos is high (4 or more), pick 2 BGs from the people who veto-ed. Sure, some might be blues, but not all of them, so there's a high chance a Mafia/SK didn't want BG. If it's a scared townie, then you're not losing much anyway. b) If the number of vetos is low (<=3), then pick one BG from that and 1 from lurkers. This is the suckiest scenario, but it still has a decent shot of picking a Maifa out of luck. Technically, 8 ppl is about 1/3 of the players if you exclude candidates and ppl who asked for BG role, so there should be roughly 2 mafia in there. At least one. c) If the number of vetos is 0 (everyone agrees), pick 2 people out of the 8, as mafias would try to blend in, and blues that agreed would be ok (maybe vets or so). __________________________________________________________________________ Of course, this will not work if everyone knows the selection criteria, and it's not even polished. I didn't put too much thought into it as I figured I wouldn't get to use it. Also, the criteria would've been posted on a different forum or hidden somewhere with a date stamp, so that the town knows you're not just making them up AFTER you know the results of the tally. They would later be revealed to town. So I know you can't use this (especially since there's no time for people to accept/veto), but maybe I gave you some ideas. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
| ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Greens can also veto if they don't want to be targets and/or attract mafia hits, so in the end it can be a coin-flip, but my idea was that, since we ARE gonna put pressure on two BGs anyway, why not put pressure on a third of the players? It seems like a decent amount to start with. But I digress, it's not gonna work as long as the criteria are public, and it's not gonna work due to lack of time. Which brings me to your Option 6. It looks ok to me, but do we have time to set up a vote? And even if we do, I think it still helps the Mafia more, because they can push someone they want dead as a a BG and hit two birds with one stone. Townies are clueless at this point, so they'll probably random-vote anyway, and it's not like it's "better" that a BG is someone with experience, or something like that, so what criteria would we pick for votes? | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On January 26 2011 05:29 darmousseh wrote: I think this one is the best. upside. Vets are tough to kill, and can be protected if necessary, mayor can live a long time. Anyone that claims to be a vet and ends up not being a vet as a bodyguard would be instantly identified as scum. Scum will probably have 1 person claim vet, in which case we can use role checks to check out the identities. Also, in the end, if vets aren't used to soak up kills, then they are wasted. By volunteering for bodyguards we can almost ensure that their abilities are used for the benefit of town. Also if we get lucky and get 2 vets then the mayor can be alive for almost the entire game if played correctly. The other thing too is that we would be less likely to lynch a vet since they will be selected as bodyguards and not in the pool of people we would want to lynch. downside. Reds can claim and mess it up, but they will be identified more quickly and it will be more of a risk since that will mean 2 reds lynched and 2 vets still in town. I'm still trying to think of the risk of an SK getting chosen to be a bodyguard. I'd have to agree with this. Just one thing though: we don't know the Mafia KPs. This is important because: a) If mafia has only 2KPs to start with, they probably won't risk hitting the Vets. This is because with one medic on them, 2KPs will not kill one person, and a night with no deaths is sad for the mafia. This will make them mow down townies until get bored (knowing that a vet is likely not among them), and then handle the vets when needed. b) If mafia have 3KPs or more, then they can easily land 2 on a vet (and if medic protted, then at least they get one life off), and one on someone else. OR, they can just go 3 on a vet and kill him right there. Actually, the 1-town 1-mafia is not so bad because we would lose mayor and kill a red. And after the first night we will know total number of reds so that helps a lot imo. But having the vets revealed, kind-of defeats the purpose of being a vet IMO. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On January 26 2011 05:44 darmousseh wrote: Well, what is the purpose of being a vet? To hope that you get randomly targeted by the mafia? or to soak up kills? Maybe a compromise would be 1 vet, 1 green. Both. You need to soak up HITS not kills. Mafia will not always know if the target that didn't die was protected by a medic, or was a vet, or who-knows-what. If they know you are vet, and it takes 2 hits to kill you, they will just use 2kp and that's that. They'll probably need to get rid of vets anyway, so it only makes it easier for them. On January 26 2011 05:46 BrownBear wrote: Honestly, I hope to god they do this. Part of the point of setting up the vote is to provide a ton of fodder for discussion and analysis, and if we notice that a group of people moved to place someone as a BG who died that night... well, that's something to work with then, isn't it? Yeah I guess you have a point, but then we get back to the question: What criteria does town vote on? Because if I were to guess right now, I'd say most of town will vote for RoL. And judging by past games, RoL will be a main target for Mafia due to him being an experienced player (which mafia likes to kill asap). So you'll end up with a bunch of people who voted for RoL because they like him and/or he's experienced and/or he volunteered already and/or they are mafia. Then, it won't be of much use. I mean, if 8 people vote for someone out of the blue, then hell yeah, but I doubt that's gonna happen. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On January 26 2011 06:45 darmousseh wrote: I don't think the sks have any motivation to be bodyguards then. I still think having at least 1 vet is good for bodyguard Nobody is denying that. The trick would be to get a Vet as BG without letting everyone (and thus, the mafia) know. That would be by far the best choice for one of the BGs. As for the other one, the Godfather, but that's not gonna happen because GF gets chosen on night 1, and BGs get chosen before that. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
That being said, I dislike the option of RnG-ing mayor as well. Sorry, but it sounds like something a scum would come up with when their choice of a mayor is not winning. Now, I'm not saying that RoL is red, but maybe both candidates are blue and Mafia is desperately trying to come up with a plan to get a red on the hot chair. I'm not liking it. Maybe if the idea came out sooner, it would work, but now when there are only a few hours left, a good deal of the players won't even have time to catch up. That being said: If the majority decides to follow this, just pretend I picked 2, but I strongly suggest we just take our chances with Kav or RoL. You are right on one behalf though, Mafia would have a FCKTON to gain if they got a red mayor, and the census ability is so so sooooooo easily forged, as it can only truly be verified by mafia. Other numbers won't really come up 'till the very end of the game. To the more experienced players, a question: Were there mafia games where mayor was revealed as scum soon after he was elected? Or does it usually end in tears like when DrH was mayor/scum last time? | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I scanned over the thread, got one question: Kav, why Beneather? I get GMarshal, but what was your reasoning for the second BG pick? I think it's important that we know, and I didn't see an explanation or him volunteering. I might have missed it, in which case I'm sorry, but I do believe it's crucial information. Also, I believe it's important to know number of SKs. Especially if Mafia turns up 4-5-6 people, because that could mean that there are more than one SK. Basically, in theory, mayor should be safe until at least one of the BGs die. If both BG are mafia (or Mafia+SK) then we lose mayor but get 2 good lynches, which is worth the census ability. So my point is, until at least one BG dies, then we have a bit of wiggle room with the census. Which is why we could use an SK count in night 2, imo. Also, in case you guys didn't notice, black is sort-of a recurrent theme in this game, so we shouldn't put TOO much emphasis on that when analyzing clues. I'm just saying, because this night it says there are no clues, but there are references to black anyway. | ||
|
CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On January 26 2011 21:06 Jackal58 wrote: It will also tell them the # of vigis we have. That's not really an issue in this game. Vigilantes get to fire a shot once per game. That means that if Mafia doesn't hit a Vig before he fires, then it's useless to kill them afterwards, as they used up their power. So yeah, they could maybe tell that a Vigilante did use their power, but it's useless information if you ask me. | ||
| ||
