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Active: 7733 users

iloveoov...most dominant of all time?

Forum Index > BW General
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dras
Profile Joined August 2010
Kazakhstan376 Posts
January 13 2011 14:09 GMT
#1
[image loading]

I've been watching a lot of Brood War lately, and it has occured to me that oov's stretch of play in '03 - '04, was pretty unbelievable:

- Had a stretch from 2003.10.23 to 2004.02.03, in which he went 33–3 (according to TLPD). This is the best streak by a player of all time.

- Has the longest TvZ winning streak: 25 wins from 2003.11.08 to 2004.07.01 according to YGosu.Com (26 wins from 2003.10.25 to 2004.07.01 according to TLPD, but TLPD is incomplete)

- Oov won all 5 major finals he has been to.

More or less, in a fairly short time window, he won as many titles as just about any other player. For whatever reason (could someone perhaps elaborate on this), be it health or desire, he was not able to sustain his amazing success as long as some other progamers have. Crisium's great topic, seen here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164280 further exemplifies oov's dominance.

Most OSL and MSL wins:

1. (T)NaDa 6
+ Show Spoiler +
2. (Z)Jaedong 5
2. (T)Flash 5
2. (T)iloveoov 5
5. (Z)sAviOr 4
6. (T)BoxeR 3
6. (Z)July 3
6. (P)Bisu 3
9. (P)GARIMTO 2
9. (P)Nal_rA 2




Finally, a list of the most Ro16 appearances in the OSL. This shows the long term success of many players, even if they never graced the top 4 very often.

1. (T)BoxeR 13
1. (P)Stork 13 (14)
3. (Z)YellOw 11
3. (T)NaDa 11
3. (Z)July 11
6. (P)Reach 10
6. (T)Flash 10(11)
8. (P)Rock 9
8. (P)Bisu 9
10. (T)XellOs 8
10. (Z)GGPlay 8
12. (Z)ChoJJa 7
12. (Z)Gorush 7
12. (Z)JJu 7
12. (T)Goodfriend 7
12. (Z)YellOw[ArnC] 7
12. (T)Hwasin 7
18. (Z)Jaedong 6(7)

Total MSL Ro16 appearances:

1. (T)NaDa 15
2. (Z)ChoJJa 11
2. (T)XellOs 11
2. (P)Nal_rA 11
5. (T)Hwasin 10
6. (T)BoxeR 9
6. (T)iloveoov 9
6. (Z)sAviOr 9
9. (Z)YellOw 8
9. (Z)Jaedong 8
11. (T)TheMarine 7
11. (P)Zeus 7
11. (Z)JJu 7
11. (T)Light 7
11. (T)Flash 7

Notice how oov is right up there with the greatest players ever in terms of titles, yet accomplished this in a much shorter period of time. To summarize, it seems to me that oov is definitely the most dominant player of all time. What he accomplished during his prime is unmatched by any other player. I don't think its unreasonable to consider oov the greatest of all time either.

Of course, there is only one player who I think could legitimately challenge oov for this...:

ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
January 13 2011 14:12 GMT
#2
5-0 in finals. what a beast.
masterbreti
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)2711 Posts
January 13 2011 14:14 GMT
#3
do we have a rep pack of him at all?
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 13 2011 14:18 GMT
#4
I think Flash's 2010 is more ridculous.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
elf_01
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States168 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 14:19:16
January 13 2011 14:19 GMT
#5
Read Plexa's Final Edits (I Loved Victory, Parts 1 and 2) on oov. It more or less sums up his entire career/dominance and its an amazing read.
STORK//SEA | SAMSUNG KHAN!
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6256 Posts
January 13 2011 14:23 GMT
#6
iloveoov ultimately took the H.O.T-Forever route of team welfare > selfish individual attempts at stardom. Also, he got married. But I'd agree with Holgerius, how can you look at sAviOr's measly run and ignore Flash? A whole host of Zergs were ZvP gods.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
January 13 2011 14:24 GMT
#7
Flash's 2010 certainly is a contender.
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
January 13 2011 14:28 GMT
#8
On January 13 2011 23:19 elf_01 wrote:
Read Plexa's Final Edits (I Loved Victory, Parts 1 and 2) on oov. It more or less sums up his entire career/dominance and its an amazing read.
Forget Plexa's articles: this article (which btw is what brought Ver to public notice) is the best article on iloveoov out there, hands down.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
elf_01
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States168 Posts
January 13 2011 14:30 GMT
#9
Yea Ver's is a masterpiece too. I was trying to find it earlier, actually. Bookmarked.
STORK//SEA | SAMSUNG KHAN!
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
January 13 2011 14:36 GMT
#10
To me Flash's dominance this year was more impressive than Oov...everyone seems better than they were back then, so it's even harder to pull off something like that.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
shucklesors
Profile Joined May 2010
Singapore1176 Posts
January 13 2011 14:38 GMT
#11
dominance wise is always a controversial topic, if we stretch the period to around 6 months or so, a few more would pop out, like jaedong, around 8 months would probably a very one-sided victory for savior as the contender, while around a year could be flash.
the 33-3 statistic you pulled out of oov's was over around 4 months, its always hard to measure.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
January 13 2011 14:40 GMT
#12
Oov didnt have a Jaedong during his time, so his dominance was much more stronger felt, than 2010 Flash.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
January 13 2011 14:47 GMT
#13
I don't think anything can compare to getting into every finals for a year, including wcg while dominating proleague.

imo iloveoov's run was fantastic, but flash's run is of other dimensions.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
MisteR
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands595 Posts
January 13 2011 14:47 GMT
#14
mdb, what about July? I remember iloveoov and July having some sort of a rivalry, or did that come later?
Nal_Ra/Much/Horang2/Flying fighting!~
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 13 2011 14:49 GMT
#15
JD is the second most accomplished player of all time (2 others have as many titles, but he has more silvers than both of them) and he had a magnificent year himself reaching 4/6 finals, and still Flash dominanted the way he did last year. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why Flash's 2010 is truly the winner when it comes to domination.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3161 Posts
January 13 2011 14:49 GMT
#16
Sounds like someone didn't see flash play the entire year before he joined TL.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
January 13 2011 15:06 GMT
#17
On January 13 2011 23:49 integral wrote:
Sounds like someone didn't see flash play the entire year before he joined TL.


Well even his current PL run is still incredible (23-2 or something very close ^_^ ).

The only mistake Flash made is to let EffOrt catch up on him and win the Korean Air OSL Season 1 while he was up 2-0. Oov would never had let this happen.
ॐ
Ricjames
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Czech Republic1047 Posts
January 13 2011 15:07 GMT
#18
This makes me want even more for Stork to win both individual leagues this season. I mean he is fucking tied on first place with Lim yo Hwan with 13 appearances in Ro16 and no win for him ;(
Iloveoov changed the meaning of term macro mechanics, yeah he was great. I don't really remember how dominant he was, but the percentage speaks for itself. You can't really compare Flash to Iloveoov, it's like apples and pears.
Brood War is the best RTS that has ever been created.
NrG.GoD-
Profile Joined November 2009
Australia63 Posts
January 13 2011 15:08 GMT
#19
ive started seriously playing starcraft in late 2007, but i knew the game since ive watched proscene since 2001 and occasionally played the game every now and then

to me the most dominant player relative to other players of their time is Flash

i mean in terms of statistics flash and iloveoov are probably close but like the way you feel about a player, like this "wow this guy just doesn't lose" kind of feeling, flash is king

1 big difference between iloveoov and flash from my perspective is that iloveoov just mass up units and crush opponents, but flash wins impossible games. iloveoov felt very powerful and strong but flash feels like he is a perfect player.

also in terms of greatness, we learned from iloveoov, improved from his gameplay, and starcraft today is much much more complicated than iloveoov's time. and also much more difficult. if there was a time machine and i could go back to his time, i could probably win OSL/MSL like 5 tiems in a row. it is ridiculously remarkable how flash is so dominant when starcraft gameplay has almost reached theoretically perfect.

in terms of dominance.. or the "aura", i would rank
1. flash
2. oov
3. savior (if you watched bw in 2005~2006.. you would know)
4. jaedong
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-13 15:11:16
January 13 2011 15:11 GMT
#20
Flash over oov, no doubt. Oov does have his perfect finals record though
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
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