• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:56
CEST 08:56
KST 15:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy13
Community News
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris48Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Speculation of future Wardii series
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September
Tourneys
Is there English video for group selection for ASL [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1271 users

Balancing for rookies

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
EffectS
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium795 Posts
January 07 2011 17:04 GMT
#1
Intro:
Hi, this is a guide for people who have a passion for making maps, but don't really know who to balance their maps to the fullest. Ofcourse, I'm not saying that I'm perfect in any way or sort, I've made maps that aren't balanced aswell so this guide is also something for me to reflect to and practice more in the current maps I'm working on.

Location, location, location:
Most of the maps I've published are macro based maps, which is short for somewhat bigger maps. Maps where positioning, simcity, etc. matters. And by having this style of maps in mind, I often look back on SC1 maps and how the main, natural and other expo's are layed out. And bearing in mind the own idea of the mapper, I set up some guidelines that will increase the chance of your map being balanced for all races.

  • Mains size should vary from 23-35 CC big to ensure every race has enough compability to build every building they need.
  • The smaller the main is, the bigger the natural should be. The natural should compensate for lack of room in the main if there is any.
  • Distance between main and natural should be maximum 2 creep tumors in between.
  • Distance between mains should be 150+ to every other main. This can vary whether you use rotational symetry or reflection symetry.


Chokes and you:
like to work with chokes. I enjoy FE builds from which a good wall-in ensures a secure FE or another wall-in that will hold of attacks from which you can tech in secrecy. Because of this, most of my maps will follow these guidelines:

  • Main-to-Natural choke should be a small choke that's easily to block of with 1 big building (9 hexes) and 2 smaller buildings (4 hexes) when you block off on a ramp and 4/5/6 hexes wide when blocking off on same level ground.
  • Natural choke should be able to be blocked by 2 big buildings, 1 small building and a unit or 2 big buildings a small building or a unit.

Also because macro-oriented games give FE-builds a better rate of succes. I like to have only 1 entrance to the natural and 1 entrance going from Main-to-Natural. If you choose to go for 2 entrances to the natural, blocking off 1 entrance with destructable rocks will still guarantee a good succes rate for FE-builds. For mains, if you need to have a second entrance, as before, block it off with rocks (For hatin' on Blistering Sands, increase the HP on those rocks to make sure they won't be broken easily).

Expo's galore:
In every good map, there's enough expo's to go around for everyone. Today, we're focusing mostly on 1v1 maps so most maps will go vary from 2 to 4 spawning locations.
  • For 4-player maps most of the time I think having a main, natural and third are enough for 1v1 play. This depends entirely on the positioning of the mains and the size of the map ofcourse. Plus, it's never bad to put neutral expo's on the map.
  • On 2-player maps however, I think there should be atleast a main, natural, third and fourth for each player.
  • Additionally expo's should increase in risk as the game progresses, so basically expo's should run towards the opponent instead of away from it.
  • Gold bases should be very hard to secure especially for terrans.


Get harassed:
Harassing is an important factor in macro-based play. Therefor every base should be able to be harassed by muta/banshee/phoenix/voidray but also by ground units. So let's say you've got a main that's hard to harass (mineral lines towards boundries of the map with clear vision of incoming troops), then to compensate for the main, the natural should be easily harassable. Same goes for other expo's, everytime you lay out a new expo, think about the previous one's and compensate for their pro's/cons.



[This will be updated with picture's as soon as possible for me.]
[These are all guidelines and not rules, don't follow them if you don't want to.]
[Please comment below and state what you think.]
TEEHEE
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
January 07 2011 17:41 GMT
#2
For 4-player maps most of the time I think having a main, natural and third are enough for 1v1 play. This depends entirely on the positioning of the mains and the size of the map ofcourse. Plus, it's never bad to put neutral expo's on the map.
I'd rather have the expos favor one player or another. It gives the player an easier choice when taking an expo. It's not really a bad thing but it's much easier to make a good map that has clear expo choices.

Good start, I look forward to when you update it.
ESV Mapmaking Team
baskerville
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
541 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-09 23:47:44
January 09 2011 23:40 GMT
#3
mighty interesting!
http://www.teamliquid.net/mirror/smilies/random-big.gif
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-11 20:29:32
January 11 2011 20:14 GMT
#4
Hello mappers!

Since, this is a balancing for rookies thread and I am a complete beginner at map making I thought I'd ask my questions here to hopefully get some advice from the community. I have recently just started to make layouts of maps and think Im starting to get the hang of it. I'm going to post 3 different maps that have the same base layout but have 3 different overall layouts. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on them on how you guys think they are when taking about balance issues.

Since I haven't begun to mess around with texturing at all I will just show you all the sc2 map analyzer and hopefully that is good enough to get some feedback on the overall layout!

First Layout:
I was thinking of making more of a rectangular map with closer air positions. I wanted the first expansion to be very easy to get then the other ones to start get to harder and harder as you move closer to the map. I was told it seems just waaaay too big to go from main to main when using a ground army. Take a look for yourself and let me know! I also wanted to try something with the xel'naga towers on the bottom corners to make them a lot more useful for offensive use but not so great for defensive use
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]


Second Layout:
I decided that maybe the ground distance was too long and maybe the air distance was too short. Also the middle I just wasn't so sure about. So I made this layout a lot smaller with still the same expansion layout. I've been told this map would be bad due to the middle of the map being the choke of all chokes (even though there are the 2 ramps to let you get around) my friend told me that a terran could just bunker/tank/turret up the complete middle where both xel'nagas are and just starve you out. Just wondering your thoughts on this one.
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]]


Third Layout:
Finally I decided why not try to transform it into a 4 player map. Problem with this is now cross positions are just as long as the ground positions were in the first layout I showed you. Maybe it's too big? Maybe the 3rd/4th are way too easy to defend? *ps im on my laptop and don't have a shortest paths for this one, but from 10 o'clock main to 4 o'clock main it takes an scv about 65 in game seconds (on fastest).
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Again, I just started off map making and would like to get some community feedback on these layouts so I can slowly start to design better and better layouts for sc2. Please if you could tell me what you like, what you hate, what you think is balanced, what you think isn't, etc etc etc.

Also effects, if you want me to move this to my own thread let me know, I just thought I'm a rookie looking for some balance feedback and didn't want to make my own thread showing some random pieces of work! :D
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
January 11 2011 20:24 GMT
#5
please resize the images or use the TL upload thingy :p
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
January 11 2011 20:28 GMT
#6
fixed, sorry bout that haha.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
baskerville
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
541 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-11 23:51:24
January 11 2011 22:59 GMT
#7
on the first one: it looks like a mask? was that how you drew it or just how it turned out...?
can't wait to see your "coloring inside of the lines" of said mask

the green one (picture) looks like a piece of puzzle thwarted unto itself or something

those are sick long, as long as mine probably, i wouldn't know how to do a 1v1 rectangle map
+ Show Spoiler +
100% square, 256/256 to boot, still need to look at the last


can we at least get a teaser: texture "base" set used for the map?

edit;+ Show Spoiler +
took time answering after answering on "just" the first layout

http://www.teamliquid.net/mirror/smilies/random-big.gif
BoomStevo
Profile Joined August 2010
United States332 Posts
January 11 2011 23:33 GMT
#8
@SidianTheBard, those maps are definitely quite big. Rookies tend to create these long paths that are like arms that reach across the map. These are quite unnatural and make the flow very awkward. My greatest advice would be this: Try creating a standard 2-player map first. Start in the editor and create a new map with a playable size of 124x124. Put 5 bases on it for each player (a total of 10 bases). Just going through the challenge of fitting those 10 bases on that size of a map may help you understand how to use each bit of space to it's fullest. Notice that both Steppes of War and Xel'Naga Caverns are 124x124 sized maps with 10 bases, yet one is infinitely better.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158246 - My Maps
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
03:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Cham vs ShoWTimELIVE!
CranKy Ducklings168
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 2600
sSak 273
Leta 111
Noble 105
Free 94
Bale 27
JulyZerg 21
Nal_rA 10
Icarus 7
NotJumperer 6
League of Legends
C9.Mang0329
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K801
Other Games
summit1g6404
shahzam746
WinterStarcraft572
JimRising 491
Maynarde121
NeuroSwarm44
semphis_33
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH314
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt496
Other Games
• Shiphtur496
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 4m
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
Maestros of the Game
10h 4m
Serral vs Ryung
ByuN vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
12h 4m
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 3h
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
1d 7h
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
1d 10h
Solar vs Bunny
Clem vs Rogue
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 11h
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
[ Show More ]
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025: Warsaw LAN
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.