New Build Optimizer T/P/Z SC2BOF

calculator

36 Posts

December 01 2010 00:17 GMT

Starcraft 2 Build Order Finder, aka SC2BOF

It optimizes for all 3 races, but we all know Terran is what everyone has been waiting patiently for

.

Saw a post on Reddit for this but I couldn't find any official discussion forum for it. I thought it would be a big deal around here.

Barbiero

Brazil5259 Posts

December 01 2010 00:32 GMT

oh, it requires net framework 4...

Anyways, I'm installing and I'mma give some feedback asap =)

thx for the work tho

Meldryn

United States7 Posts

December 01 2010 00:47 GMT

At first glance looks okay. At least for Zerg, it is much, much slower than SCBuildOrder.

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 01 2010 01:14 GMT

If the author of SC2BOF reads this I'd love the opportunity to talk and possibly collaborate.

DyEnasTy

United States3714 Posts

December 01 2010 01:18 GMT

Which one is Terran?

frogmelter

United States971 Posts

December 01 2010 01:22 GMT

Is there a certain amount of generations that a build should be stable for before we decide it's the 'fastest'?

Is there a number of generations it runs before it just stops?

Nice work. I've been waiting for one for Terran. Thanks!

Also, for Protoss, it keeps saying "Failed Chronoboost". Is that supposed to happen?

CarbonTwelve

Australia525 Posts

December 01 2010 01:32 GMT

On December 01 2010 10:22 frogmelter wrote:
Also, for Protoss, it keeps saying "Failed Chronoboost". Is that supposed to happen?

I've got a feeling he hasn't implemented chrono boost yet. Most of the chrono boost actions aren't there, and those that are don't seem to work. I tried comparing 5 stalker builds between this app and mine and they get different results, with this app being much slower 'cause it's not using chrono I think.

calculator

36 Posts

December 01 2010 01:33 GMT

On December 01 2010 10:14 CarbonTwelve wrote:
If the author of SC2BOF reads this I'd love the opportunity to talk and possibly collaborate.

I messaged him about this thread as an "issue" on the code.google download site. With any luck he's already a member here.

I don't know how fast or slow it is, but for Terran it produces the build that remains stable after about 15 seconds. Granted I haven't taken it past 300 stable generations. In practice I've only been able to actually get within about 10-20 seconds of the stated times, but that's mindblowing considering what I was able to achieve by trying to calculate all this in my head.

I really hope he comes here for discussion, and that maybe he collabs with you and that other team.

jonv11

Belgium11 Posts

December 01 2010 09:48 GMT

Hi guys, i'm here (sc2bof developer :p) but i'm at work for the moment so i dont have much time

I'll check this forum in the eve

Thanks to all of you for the feedback and encouragements

(BTW no chronobosst yet, and program still in developpement so dont be surprise when something is missing ^^)

Also Improvement, Fix requests and bugs should be filled on google code directly

I'll add a link on google code to this thread too, for feedback and discussion

See you soon SC2 fans =}

chubbs

Cambodia5 Posts

December 01 2010 09:56 GMT

#10

and pylon only costs 50min

icezar

Germany240 Posts

December 01 2010 13:38 GMT

#11

it seems very slow and buggy for zerg. it crashes every time i select autoinject,
But it has some new features that other dont, like time and resource target!

yB.TeH

Germany414 Posts

December 01 2010 14:11 GMT

#12

factories and maybe other buildings can build reactors and techlabs at the same time

Alkolol

1 Post

December 01 2010 15:52 GMT

#13

I'm not sure, but i think if you select you want orbitary command in your build order, i think it doesnt include it in the build as if you wanted to use mule, giving you more income and thus more/faster units? correct me if i'm wrong

zunova

United States83 Posts

December 01 2010 15:53 GMT

#14

I've seen Nony and some other people do something like a 6 stalker push at around 6 minutes in, this got them in 5:27. If chronoboost isn't implemented then it'd be a few seconds faster.

[image loading]

Edit: Actually disregard that, it might end up being around 5:30 with the 50 mineral pylons and the lack of chronoboost.

klownshoes

Canada7 Posts

December 01 2010 16:34 GMT

#15

Cool program.

It seems to hang when I run it with autobuild scv and autocall mule on, but runs fine without these on. I've had failed muled messages again. All in all it's pretty neat and interesting right now, but it could potentially become a lot more useful as the number of features improve.

The ability to set build order constraints (eg, my desired build should start with 10 depot 12 barracks) would make the program a lot more powerful by both improving speed and allowing people to ask more specific questions.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

December 01 2010 17:42 GMT

#16

Something must be wrong with the Terran version. With goal 22 scvs, 7 marauders, 14 marines with constant mules in less than 20 minutes, it says fastest time so far is 7 minutes 37 seconds and has gone through 759 generations and has been stable for 505 generations. I'm sure it could be done a lot faster.

+ Show Spoiler +

1 00:00:00 SCV 0 0 7/11 6 (6/0) 0
00:00:17 +1 SCV 71 0 7/11 7 (7/0) 0
2 SCV 21 0 8/11 7 (7/0) 0
00:00:34 +1 SCV 104 0 8/11 8 (8/0) 0
3 SCV 54 0 9/11 8 (8/0) 0
00:00:51 +1 SCV 149 0 9/11 9 (9/0) 0
4 SCV 99 0 10/11 9 (9/0) 0
5 00:00:52 SupplyDepot 6 0 10/11 9 (8/0) 0
00:01:08 +1 SCV 95 0 10/11 10 (9/0) 0
00:01:22 +1 SupplyDepot 184 0 10/19 10 (10/0) 0
6 Barracks 34 0 10/19 10 (9/0) 0
00:02:22 +1 Barracks 412 0 10/19 10 (10/0) 0
7 Marine 362 0 11/19 10 (10/0) 0
8 OrbitalCommand 212 0 11/19 10 (10/0) 0
9 Refinery 137 0 11/19 10 (9/0) 0
10 SupplyDepot 37 0 11/19 10 (8/0) 0
00:02:47 +1 Marine 177 0 11/19 10 (8/0) 1
00:02:52 +1 Refinery 205 0 11/19 10 (8/1) 1
+1 SupplyDepot 205 0 11/27 10 (9/1) 1
00:02:57 +1 OrbitalCommand 236 3 11/27 10 (9/1) 1
11 SCV 186 3 12/27 10 (9/1) 1
12 CallMule 186 3 12/27 10 (9/1) 1
00:03:14 +1 SCV 370 13 12/27 11 (10/1) 1
13 SCV 320 13 13/27 11 (10/1) 1
14 00:03:21 CommandCenter 0 18 13/27 11 (9/1) 1
00:03:31 +1 SCV 108 24 13/27 12 (10/1) 1
15 SCV 58 24 14/27 12 (10/1) 1
16 Marine 8 24 15/27 12 (10/1) 1
17 00:03:44 Barracks 8 32 15/27 12 (9/1) 1
00:03:48 +1 SCV 51 35 15/27 13 (10/1) 1
00:03:56 +1 Marine 143 40 15/27 13 (10/1) 2
18 Marine 93 40 16/27 13 (10/1) 2
00:04:21 +1 Marine 380 56 16/27 13 (10/1) 3
19 TechLabOnBarracks 330 31 16/27 13 (10/1) 3
20 Barracks 180 31 16/27 13 (9/1) 3
00:04:27 FailedMule 245 35 16/27 13 (9/1) 3
21 CallMule 245 35 16/27 13 (9/1) 3
00:04:44 +1 Barracks 429 45 16/27 13 (10/1) 3
22 Marine 379 45 17/27 13 (10/1) 3
23 SCV 329 45 18/27 13 (10/1) 3
24 Barracks 179 45 18/27 13 (9/1) 3
00:04:46 +1 TechLabOnBarracks 200 47 18/27 13 (9/1) 3
00:05:01 +1 CommandCenter 362 56 18/27 13 (10/1) 3
+1 SCV 362 56 18/27 14 (11/1) 3
25 SCV 312 56 19/27 14 (11/1) 3
26 SupplyDepot 212 56 19/27 14 (10/1) 3
27 Marine 162 56 20/27 14 (10/1) 3
28 Gas 162 56 20/27 14 (9/2) 3
29 OrbitalCommand 12 56 20/27 14 (9/2) 3
00:05:09 +1 Marine 99 66 20/27 14 (9/2) 4
30 TechLabOnBarracks 49 41 20/27 14 (9/2) 4
00:05:18 +1 SCV 146 53 20/27 15 (10/2) 4
00:05:21 +1 Barracks 180 57 20/27 15 (11/2) 4
31 TechLabOnBarracks 130 32 20/27 15 (11/2) 4
00:05:26 +1 Marine 191 38 20/27 15 (11/2) 5
32 Marine 141 38 21/27 15 (11/2) 5
00:05:31 +1 SupplyDepot 202 44 21/35 15 (12/2) 5
00:05:34 +1 TechLabOnBarracks 241 48 21/35 15 (12/2) 5
00:05:36 +1 OrbitalCommand 267 51 21/35 15 (12/2) 5
33 CallExtraSupplies 267 51 21/43 15 (12/2) 5
34 SupplyDepot 167 51 21/43 15 (11/2) 5
35 Marine 117 51 22/43 15 (11/2) 5
00:05:44 +1 Barracks 215 61 22/43 15 (12/2) 5
00:05:46 +1 TechLabOnBarracks 240 63 22/43 15 (12/2) 5
36 Marauder 140 38 24/43 15 (12/2) 5
37 Marine 90 38 25/43 15 (12/2) 5
38 SCV 40 38 26/43 15 (12/2) 5
00:05:51 +1 Marine 105 45 26/43 15 (12/2) 6
39 Marauder 5 20 28/43 15 (12/2) 6
40 00:05:55 SCV 6 25 29/43 15 (12/2) 6
41 00:05:56 CallMule 19 26 29/43 15 (12/2) 6
00:05:57 FailedMule 37 27 29/43 15 (12/2) 6
00:06:01 +1 Marine 88 32 29/43 15 (12/2) 7
00:06:03 +1 SCV 114 35 29/43 16 (13/2) 7
42 SCV 64 35 30/43 16 (13/2) 7
00:06:06 +1 SupplyDepot 105 39 30/51 16 (14/2) 7
43 Marauder 5 14 32/51 16 (14/2) 7
44 Gas 5 14 32/51 16 (13/3) 7
00:06:11 +1 Marine 73 23 32/51 16 (13/3) 8
00:06:12 +1 SCV 87 25 32/51 17 (14/3) 8
45 SCV 37 25 33/51 17 (14/3) 8
46 00:06:13 Marine 1 27 34/51 17 (14/3) 8
00:06:16 +1 Marauder 44 33 34/51 17 (14/3) 10
47 00:06:17 Marine 8 34 35/51 17 (14/3) 10
00:06:20 +1 SCV 51 40 35/51 18 (15/3) 10
48 SCV 1 40 36/51 18 (15/3) 10
00:06:21 +1 Marauder 16 42 36/51 18 (15/3) 12
00:06:29 +1 SCV 136 57 36/51 19 (16/3) 12
49 SCV 86 57 37/51 19 (16/3) 12
50 Marine 36 57 38/51 19 (16/3) 12
00:06:36 +1 Marauder 146 71 38/51 19 (16/3) 14
51 Marauder 46 46 40/51 19 (16/3) 14
00:06:37 +1 SCV 62 47 40/51 20 (17/3) 14
00:06:38 +1 Marine 78 49 40/51 20 (17/3) 15
52 Marine 28 49 41/51 20 (17/3) 15
00:06:42 +1 Marine 94 57 41/51 20 (17/3) 16
53 Marine 44 57 42/51 20 (17/3) 16
54 00:06:43 SCV 10 59 43/51 20 (17/3) 16
00:06:46 +1 SCV 59 65 43/51 21 (18/3) 16
00:06:54 +1 Marine 196 80 43/51 21 (18/3) 17
55 Marauder 96 55 45/51 21 (18/3) 17
00:07:00 +1 SCV 199 66 45/51 22 (19/3) 17
00:07:03 +1 Marine 252 72 45/51 22 (19/3) 18
00:07:06 +1 Marauder 305 78 45/51 22 (19/3) 20
56 Marauder 205 53 47/51 22 (19/3) 20
57 CallMule 205 53 47/51 22 (19/3) 20
00:07:07 +1 Marine 228 54 47/51 22 (19/3) 21
58 Marauder 128 29 49/51 22 (19/3) 21
59 Marine 78 29 50/51 22 (19/3) 21
00:07:24 +1 Marauder 457 62 50/51 22 (19/3) 23
60 00:07:25 CallMule 479 64 50/51 22 (19/3) 23
00:07:26 FailedMule 506 66 50/51 22 (19/3) 23
00:07:32 +1 Marine 640 77 50/51 22 (19/3) 24
00:07:36 +1 Marauder 729 85 50/51 22 (19/3) 26
00:07:37 +1 Marauder 751 86 50/51 22 (19/3) 28

jonv11

Belgium11 Posts

December 01 2010 18:55 GMT

#17

Hi again everybody

First of all i'll give some explanations about the 'Failed' actions, maybe i should renamme it as i see nobody seems to understand it like i was meaning

This action mean, the previously Called action is over (like mule has lived 90 sec so it fail, same for chronoboost (when it'll work))
So it's just like another action and thus not a 'bug' like the action is failed, the action ran and then the action is over, (like the +1 when unites are spawning)

Second i'll encourage everybody who tried the software and found something that seems not to work properly, just go put an entry in the issues on googld code : http://code.google.com/p/sc2bof/issues/list
So everything is centralised the and thus when i need to see what i should improve, i only have one place to go to, and dont need to read all the posts again

I'll keep working on the software and try to finish it as fast as i can so you guys can enjoy it in his full potential

If you have ideas about good missing functionnalities dont hesitate to send me a message or again go fill an issue on google code

I'm doing this software not only for my but well for everybody who want to use it

Thanks again for all the feedbacks/ideas/comments
See ya all ++

Moody

United States750 Posts

December 01 2010 19:15 GMT

#18

Most definitely going to check this out when I get home. I have never downloaded another BO optimizer, because there wasn't one for Terran. Its going to be awesome to find out if theres any more super fast pushes I can do. XD

jonv11

Belgium11 Posts

December 01 2010 19:42 GMT

#19

does 50 marines in 00:07:46 looks normal or should i look for a big bug here :s ?!?
here is the build order (loadable in the editor)
+ Show Spoiler +

calculator

36 Posts

December 01 2010 19:58 GMT

#20

K so I used the Terran part for so many hours last night, here's what I found:

Bugs:
• Second MULE called always fails, not sure about subsequent MULEs. [EDIT: your post above revealed that maybe it's not failing on calling a second mule]
• Subsequent goals (#2, #3, #4, etc) are achieved out of order if at all.
• Sometimes it will show less barracks in the build than it does in the right panel. Not sure how to reproduce this problem I will note it when I find out.
• Once a build has been stable for 10-50 generations, it will not improve even if it obviously isn't optimal (i.e. getting an engineering bay for the goal of marines and marauders). I've only taken it to 1600 generations on default settings and trust me that build wasn't optimal.

Suggestions for the optimizer and the build order tester:
• Allow state saves/loads and profiles and defaults for the left panel in both, and for any settings that are likely to be used/changed often.
• Allow full keyboard navigation/commands
• Allow goals for starting things instead of all goals being only for finishing things. For example a goal of: 1 orbital command, 10 marines, and a refinery STARTED but doesn't need to be completed.
• Custom limits, so it doesn't do unnecessary things, this should also make the program significantly faster. I.e. a quick way, whatever, of telling it "all these things A, B, C etc etc etc don't even need to be considered". Again, allowing state saves and full keyboard and mouse functionality (such as Tab, shift-clicks, ctrl-clicks, arrow keys to navigate and change values) would make the process of setting limits easier.
• Waypoints/rally points/commands in general, so we can manually steer the optimization. For example start with this build/these circumstances and go from there. Or tell SCVs (or any units) where to go upon spawning, or at any time, instead of letting the optimizer do whatever it wants. The goals system seems like it should accomplish some of this very well, but the goals seem broken as I listed above as a bug.
• I think most important is triggers, so we can say:
- do/don't do X before/after Y
Anyone who's used the map editor (or who's played SC2) knows how important timing is. Supply, minerals, gas, current income for gas or minerals, X amount of workers, X amount of workers at a refinery, stop producing workers if X and Y are true, etc etc etc etc.

Suggestions for the build order tester only:
• First, the build order tester is pure genius. I don't know if the other optimizers have something like this, but with a few improvements I for one would find it more useful than the optimizer itself. I would like to be able to input an order consisting of an orbital command and a list full of SCVs, then simply add units/buildings one at a time move them up the list with results/comparisons on-the-fly until i reach the optimal placement. This can be done right now, but it would be MUCH easier and better with a few improvements.
• All the above suggestions, for the optimizer and build order tester.
• Allow full keyboard navigation/commands
• Allow drag and drop order changes, as well as dragging-by-keyboard (i.e. hold control and hit up or down to rearrange a unit/building).
• Auto-update when changes are made! Without changing the scrolling positions.
• After each change, Green/red indicators (like buying/equipping in an RPG) to show what it made faster/slower higher/lower.
• Comparison mode where saved builds are bound to like the Function keys for quick comparison.

I forgot a lot of what I had in mind last night, but these are the ones that stuck our for now. Awesome work on this!! Keep up the work on the optimizer, but don't underestimate the potential of manually crafting and optimizing builds with the build order tester if a few user-interface changes are implemented. Currently the build order tester becomes useless really quick tho because we can't order SCVs around to/from gas/minerals/neither.

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