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Couldn't find a good discussion for this in the strategy forum after a search so I'm starting a new discussion on this.
As a Terran player, in general against all races, when should one go for an Orbital Command to maximize resource intake? Specifically, the Orbital Command gives you a mule which will boost your mineral income in the long run. But going for an Orbital Command earlier - at say the 13/14 scv mark - leaves you with less scvs that you could use to get gas, etc.
(Edit: Stripped a nonsensical comment by me)
Anyways, here are the questions:
1) When do the top platinum Terran players go for their Orbital Commands? Specifically, after how many SCVs produced should one go for an Orbital Command?
2) Should you get an Orbital Command before your first refinery? Or should you build a refinery before an Orbital Command?
PS. I understand there are race specific strategies to consider, but I'm considering a general case for this discussion
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i get it right after rax.
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I'm assuming that most decent Terran builds will go for a barracks before an Orbital Command to prevent early rushes but if you have a good reason why you should get an Orbital Command before a barracks, feel free to explain!
well the main strategical reason you go for a barracks before an orbital command is because having a barracks is a prerequisite of building an orbital command.
edit: you should pretty much always build your orbital command right when your barracks finishes, I cant really think of any reason not to.
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On March 27 2010 12:09 StarcraftMan wrote:
I'm assuming that most decent Terran builds will go for a barracks before an Orbital Command to prevent early rushes but if you have a good reason why you should get an Orbital Command before a barracks, feel free to explain!
Orbital Command requires that you have a barracks. That's a good reason.
EDIT: beaten : /
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On March 27 2010 12:16 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +I'm assuming that most decent Terran builds will go for a barracks before an Orbital Command to prevent early rushes but if you have a good reason why you should get an Orbital Command before a barracks, feel free to explain! well the main strategical reason you go for a barracks before an orbital command is because having a barracks is a prerequisite of building an orbital command. edit: you should pretty much always build your orbital command right when your barracks finishes, I cant really think of any reason not to.
My bad, lol.
But should you get an Orbital Command before getting a refinery?
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I let that last SCV finish, but I go to Orbital on the next time the CC is available to train. Every time, every MU... its worth it, even at say 15 supply.
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On March 27 2010 12:19 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 12:16 Rice wrote:I'm assuming that most decent Terran builds will go for a barracks before an Orbital Command to prevent early rushes but if you have a good reason why you should get an Orbital Command before a barracks, feel free to explain! well the main strategical reason you go for a barracks before an orbital command is because having a barracks is a prerequisite of building an orbital command. edit: you should pretty much always build your orbital command right when your barracks finishes, I cant really think of any reason not to. My bad, lol. But should you get an Orbital Command before getting a refinery?
yes, orbital command pays for itself in like 15 seconds, iirc.
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You can build a refinery after barracks (on 13 or sometimes 14) and still have enough money for an orbital command once the rax finishes. If you have constant SCV production it syncs up really nicely with the last SCV finishing just as the rax finishes so you can start the orbital command right then.
And yeah unless they're doing some super early cheese rush it's almost always a good idea to get the orbital command as soon as your barracks finishes because it pays for itself incredibly fast and then gives you a huge boost in economy, so you want it as early as possible.
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On March 27 2010 12:22 Rice wrote:
yes, orbital command pays for itself in like 15 seconds, iirc.
15 sec? That's a bit fast for the return on the investment. Does anybody have the numbers for this?
Specifically, the time it takes you to build an orbital command, how many minerals/scvs could you have produced in that time period?
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On March 27 2010 12:24 Angra wrote:
You can build a refinery after barracks (on 13 or sometimes 14) and still have enough money for an orbital command once the rax finishes. If you have constant SCV production it syncs up really nicely with the last SCV finishing just as the rax finishes so you can start the orbital command right then.
Nice. Do you have a good link to a video example on YoutTube for this example?
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On March 27 2010 12:32 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 12:24 Angra wrote:
You can build a refinery after barracks (on 13 or sometimes 14) and still have enough money for an orbital command once the rax finishes. If you have constant SCV production it syncs up really nicely with the last SCV finishing just as the rax finishes so you can start the orbital command right then.
Nice. Do you have a good link to a video example on YoutTube for this example?
It's easier to try it out in game or in an unranked game.
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On March 27 2010 12:16 Rice wrote:
edit: you should pretty much always build your orbital command right when your barracks finishes, I cant really think of any reason not to.
I agree but disagree against protoss 1 gate core. I'm trying to figure out why im able to
so well and what to look out for that will stop it but I find it best(still talking about mid and long
run) to right after my rax if i scout 1 gate core from protoss I immediately drop a CC in my nat
then orbital then drop a bunker and fill with rines. By they time they have any kind of early force
I have plenty of marine muraders from 3 rax picking off unit from my cliff. Oh big thing there is
if its a map like LT where I can have units on my cliff back up my bunker I drop to defend nat.
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/431
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Ok, I was on LZ's channel chatting up with other players, and I got a good build order. Let me know if you have any comments/feedback on this order:
10 - Supply Depot
11 - Rax (or 11ish)
13 - Refinery
15 - OC
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On March 28 2010 16:34 StarcraftMan wrote:
Ok, I was on LZ's channel chatting up with other players, and I got a good build order. Let me know if you have any comments/feedback on this order:
10 - Supply Depot
11 - Rax (or 11ish)
13 - Refinery
15 - OC
I do exactly this but I have my own subtle tweak. The first supply depot finishes at about ~90 minerals so the scv that built it just stands there waiting for the 150 to build the rax. I fix this by scouting with this scv. At 100 minerals I send an scv from my mineral line to where I want to build the rax and on most maps it gets there right at 150.
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from the very start I've always done
9 supply
11 rax
12 refinery
14 OC
worked for me thus far
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I pull a 10 rax, 12 ref, 13 orb by cutting a probe or two... so I can get my first siege tank (w/ upgrade) by 25 or so~
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as soon as possible!
The longer u have occ, the more mins you'll get from it. on most maps I'd go for it right after rax.
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Lately I've been going
9 rax
10 depot
11 OC/refinery
I can crank out 1-2 marines while the Orbital Command is building then tech lab right away. The main issue I guess with this BO is that while you can pull ahead/stay even on minerals you have less gas then an OC at 14 because you don't have enough SCVs to double gas.
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There are two popular openings:
first will give you slightly better econ
second will give you faster tech
10 depot
11 rax
12 gas
14 OC
14 rine
..or..
9 rax
10 gas
11OC
11depot
11rine
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I can stress this enough to my friends, OC is amazing*. Get it right after rax, whatever the timing is, get it asap. Unless you beat your opponent with wizards and hobbits, you need minerals.
*see the income gained from one mule(270~300minerals)
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EPT
