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Active: 8031 users

[grammar] i.e. & e.g.

Forum Index > General Forum
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omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-19 08:31:27
October 19 2009 06:21 GMT
#1
Greetings fellow forum users.

I am now going to teach a small lesson in the proper usage of the Latin phrases id est (i.e.) and exempli gratia (e.g.).

id est (i.e.) that is "That is (to say)" in the sense of "that means" and "which means", or "in other words", or sometimes "in this case", depending on the context; may be followed by a comma, or not, depending on style.
He did not answer, i.e., he remained quiet.

exempli gratia (e.g.) 'for the sake of example' or simply 'for example'
...a basketball player (e.g., Allen Iverson, Michael Jordan)

Both reference words synonymous with the preceding statement. Both are always punctuated as shown, sometimes in parentheses. Their usage is quite different and they are oftentimes confused with each other.

Here is the example from a recent post in the general forum that finally pushed me over the edge, i.e., i was thereafter compelled to write this post.

Can i make the background music myself, IE guitar?

Substituting i.e., with "that is to say" we get the following run-on gibberish: "Can i make the background music myself, that is to say guitar."

Here the gentleman's intention is to inquire whether or not his own guitar will be acceptable for producing the required background music. The guitar in question is provided as a possible example to his previous inquiry and so the abbreviation e.g. is more suitable:

"Can i make the background music myself, e.g., with guitar?"

Substituting e.g. with "for example" and adding one word we get a slightly more comprehensible question: "Can i make the background music myself, for example, with guitar?"

These two abbreviations are seldom used in questions, however. The above examples are only used to provide the strict explanation of how the words function in the sentence.
Of course, he should have just written "Can I make the music myself with guitar?"

What follows are some TL/SC themed examples to hopefully illustrate the difference between these two often confused Latin phrases:

"With all the offensive memes being thrown around the SC forum-scene these days, e.g., rickroll, fail, hwaiting,1a2a3a, I'm glad to be in the presence of such proactive and ban-happy moderators, i.e. I love TL mods"

"At the start of the 09/10 Proleague season Zerg was arguably the dominant race with two of its strongest members, e.g., Jaedong and Calm, having won the recent OSL and MSL tournaments respectively.

+ Show Spoiler [trick question] +
both e.g. and i.e. can work here. i had it as i.e. originally but changed it. e.g. is more appropriate since JD and Calm are not the only strong zerg users. e.g. is more correct since i am listing merely listing examples of strong Zerg players and not trying to identify THE definitive strongest two. trick question!

"Certain builds are better or worse depending on your opponent's style and the map, (e.g. 14 Nexus on Python can catch a Terran opponent off-guard if he scouts it too late and is unprepared for a counter) i.e., "the optimal build order" varies from game to game.


"The recent trend of high-level players, e.g., Lzgamer, Ret, and Kawaiirice, broadcasting their live streamed games is a windfall for all noobs who take the time to watch and learn.

"Bobby is not a fan of the high-money BGH style maps, i.e., he only plays Iccup maps on the ladder."



Saddened Izzy
Profile Joined July 2009
United States198 Posts
October 19 2009 06:24 GMT
#2
Just felt i should post here
I don't use AIM/MSN/ etc stop asking...
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
October 19 2009 06:33 GMT
#3
i always mix these up :C

thanks!
HEY MEYT
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
October 19 2009 06:33 GMT
#4
lol Izzy...

I didn't really know how to use these properly tbh.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-19 06:36:07
October 19 2009 06:35 GMT
#5
Hey thanks for that, apparently I've always been using i.e. wrongly. We don't have those two abbreviations in German and I've always assumed i.e. meant in exemplo.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
datscilly
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States529 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-19 06:38:08
October 19 2009 06:37 GMT
#6
This isn't taught in schools that I know of and is usually something picked up unconsciously. I think of them as "as in" and "for example".
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-19 06:48:28
October 19 2009 06:39 GMT
#7
On October 19 2009 15:35 Orome wrote:
Hey thanks for that, apparently I've always been using i.e. wrongly. We don't have those two abbreviations in German and I've always assumed i.e. meant in exemplo.


glad to help. interestingly, i learned the meanings of these as well as the 3rd most often used latin abbreviation from reading translations of German philosophy

videlicet (viz.) "namely", "that is to say", "as follows".


KrAzYfoOL
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Australia3037 Posts
October 19 2009 06:41 GMT
#8
Please do another one of these for your/you're because I notice an embarrassingly large amount of people don't know the difference.
It's better to burn out than to fade away
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
October 19 2009 06:49 GMT
#9
i understand the difference! but remembering which one is which is harder :D but thanks.
caldo149
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States469 Posts
October 19 2009 06:49 GMT
#10
Nice one, i.e. I liked your post and am now 100 percent sure that I am using these abbreviated phrases correctly.
Hellions are my homeboys
pangshai
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Chinatown5333 Posts
October 19 2009 06:56 GMT
#11
On October 19 2009 15:41 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
Please do another one of these for your/you're because I notice an embarrassingly large amount of people don't know the difference.

i see "would of" instead of "would have" so frequently it makes me wanna cry.
#1 midas fan
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-19 07:09:29
October 19 2009 07:02 GMT
#12
For the longest time, I thought 'i.e.' stood for 'In English'. This notion took a very long time to dispel since it barely changes the usage.

It's/its is also bizarre, because normally 'apostrophe s' indicates property, whereas "it's" is a contraction of 'it is', and 'its' is the possessive.

On October 19 2009 15:56 pangshai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2009 15:41 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
Please do another one of these for your/you're because I notice an embarrassingly large amount of people don't know the difference.

i see "would of" instead of "would have" so frequently it makes me wanna cry.

"Would've" is a contraction of 'would have', but is pronounced like 'would of'. Hence the confusion.
My strategy is to fork people.
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5725 Posts
October 19 2009 07:04 GMT
#13
On October 19 2009 15:56 pangshai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2009 15:41 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
Please do another one of these for your/you're because I notice an embarrassingly large amount of people don't know the difference.

i see "would of" instead of "would have" so frequently it makes me wanna cry.


those guys dont know that their gonna go theyre for there lunch break.
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
October 19 2009 07:07 GMT
#14
On October 19 2009 15:21 omninmo wrote:


Here is the example from a recent post in the general forum that finally pushed me over the edge, i.e., i was thereafter compelled to write this post.

Show nested quote +
Can i make the background music myself, IE guitar?

Hahaha I read IE as an abbreviation for Internet Explorer and thought it had some kind of guitar app.



On October 19 2009 15:21 omninmo wrote:

"At the start of the 09/10 Proleague season Zerg was arguably the dominant race with two of its strongest members, e.g., Jaedong and Calm, having won the recent OSL and MSL tournaments respectively."
Pretty sure the "e.g." here should be an i.e., i.e., "At the start of the 09/10 Proleague season Zerg was arguably the dominant race with two of its strongest members, i.e., Jaedong and Calm, having won the recent OSL and MSL tournaments respectively."
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
October 19 2009 07:07 GMT
#15
On October 19 2009 16:04 29 fps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2009 15:56 pangshai wrote:
On October 19 2009 15:41 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
Please do another one of these for your/you're because I notice an embarrassingly large amount of people don't know the difference.

i see "would of" instead of "would have" so frequently it makes me wanna cry.


those guys dont know that their gonna go theyre for there lunch break.

I see what you did their.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
October 19 2009 07:08 GMT
#16
On October 19 2009 16:04 29 fps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2009 15:56 pangshai wrote:
On October 19 2009 15:41 KrAzYfoOL wrote:
Please do another one of these for your/you're because I notice an embarrassingly large amount of people don't know the difference.

i see "would of" instead of "would have" so frequently it makes me wanna cry.


those guys dont know that their gonna go theyre for there lunch break.

Haha my eyes are bleeding now.
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
October 19 2009 07:10 GMT
#17
Weird. I remeber my Latin teacher telling us that "e.g." is an abbreviation for "ex gregis", something like "out of the many".
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
eMbrace
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1300 Posts
October 19 2009 07:11 GMT
#18
oh they are latin phrases? i figured out what they imply from reading experience, but didn't know what they actually stood for
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
October 19 2009 07:14 GMT
#19
I always thought i.e. meant In Example, but I guess that works.
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
October 19 2009 07:17 GMT
#20
lol thansk , very informative ! :D:D

oh and i absolutely detest "of" being substituted for " 've " -_-;;;;;;;;
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
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