EPTHe still played low econ , however more then yellows.
ZvT finals curse? - Page last
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kefkalives
Australia1272 Posts
He still played low econ , however more then yellows. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On February 17 2007 20:20 davidgurt wrote: Savior said Nada has nothing on him. die savior. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4148 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On February 17 2007 22:45 Hot_Bid wrote: it is true that an OSL win is valued more and considered more prestigious than an MSL win, but is it really harder? probably a bit, but not as much as people think. it's ridiculously hard to qualify for either, and even harder to win either. if MSL was really that much easier than OSL, why has July never made an MSL finals? Same reason why it took Savior this long to make the OSL: it's fucking hard, either league. if you look at the list of MSL finals, there aren't really any "fluke" finalists, no Sync, no GoodFriend, et cetera. many of the MSL finalists have multiple appearances or wins, and many consider the league to have better, more balanced maps. what it lacks is the "OSL Mystique," that magical feeling you have when you watch it. there's simply no way to duplicate that crazy atmosphere during OSL finals. but does mean that we should value an OSL victory over an MSL one? should July's 2 be considered greater than Savior's 3 (possible 4)? is an OSL victory really quantified as "more" than a MSL victory simply because of the history, mystique, and public opinion? in a way you could say that the OSL caters more to the "hot" player with more controversial maps, so you could say that its harder to be consistent in it... but i mean they are two leagues both with qualification systems and brackets and whatever, so how can one really be significantly "tougher"? i just think OSL has been around longer and has a deeper history, and thats what makes valued more, but i don't think it's significantly "tougher" or "harder" to win. if that was true, wouldn't multiple osl winners like nada or july or whoever have many more MSL wins? it doesn't make any sense that two players who were so dominant in the OSL somehow can't even make many recent MSL finals. it's a testament to how tough the MSL is and how it should be viewed more equally as the OSL (note how i said more equally, not exactly equal). and the argument about only being able to practice for one league doesn't hold, nal_ra, iloveoov, and now savior have been able make two finals in both leagues relatively at the same time, which shows just how dominant those players were during those time periods. the only difference - but what a huge difference it is - is the incredibly increased pressure in an OSL final. other than that, they're obviously the same | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On February 17 2007 22:45 Hot_Bid wrote: + Show Spoiler + it is true that an OSL win is valued more and considered more prestigious than an MSL win, but is it really harder? probably a bit, but not as much as people think. it's ridiculously hard to qualify for either, and even harder to win either. if MSL was really that much easier than OSL, why has July never made an MSL finals? Same reason why it took Savior this long to make the OSL: it's fucking hard, either league. if you look at the list of MSL finals, there aren't really any "fluke" finalists, no Sync, no GoodFriend, et cetera. many of the MSL finalists have multiple appearances or wins, and many consider the league to have better, more balanced maps. what it lacks is the "OSL Mystique," that magical feeling you have when you watch it. there's simply no way to duplicate that crazy atmosphere during OSL finals. but does mean that we should value an OSL victory over an MSL one? should July's 2 be considered greater than Savior's 3 (possible 4)? is an OSL victory really quantified as "more" than a MSL victory simply because of the history, mystique, and public opinion? in a way you could say that the OSL caters more to the "hot" player with more controversial maps, so you could say that its harder to be consistent in it... but i mean they are two leagues both with qualification systems and brackets and whatever, so how can one really be significantly "tougher"? i just think OSL has been around longer and has a deeper history, and thats what makes valued more, but i don't think it's significantly "tougher" or "harder" to win. if that was true, wouldn't multiple osl winners like nada or july or whoever have many more MSL wins? it doesn't make any sense that two players who were so dominant in the OSL somehow can't even make many recent MSL finals. it's a testament to how tough the MSL is and how it should be viewed more equally as the OSL (note how i said more equally, not exactly equal). and the argument about only being able to practice for one league doesn't hold, nal_ra, iloveoov, and now savior have been able make two finals in both leagues relatively at the same time, which shows just how dominant those players were during those time periods. Actually that sounds completely right. But why did it take so long for Savior to emerge in the OSL then? Did he concentrate more on the MSL before or was there no particular reason? | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4148 Posts
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On February 18 2007 07:38 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: that's because he was facing a lot of zerg players in the qualify games for OSL ah, ZvZ. That explains it. At least his ZvZ seems to have improved now though. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On February 18 2007 07:44 tKd_ wrote: I think it's fairly obvious at this point in time that Savior is better than July, it doesn't have to be in terms of wins or titles, you just have to see for yourself by games. Of course, July has been getting better and better, but his game sense is nowhere Savior's. July to this day, has incredible army micro though, it's so fun to watch, but it's not enough to win games 100%. This is exactly the kind of intergenerational subjective measurements that is far too personal & unfounded to be of use. The only fair way is to compare a person to their peers - you can point to Savior's win percentage, his MSL dominance, or things like that - actual stats to indicate how well Savior plays against people playing in the same era. But if you just want to say you 'feel' that Savior is better, there are a million issues that get in the way. Players back in July's era didn't have the same approach to today's game; the game flow was different; build orders were different; and especially maps were different. It's unfair to July in his prime to compare him to Savior simply because everyone in today's era is better than they were back then. Everyone has benefited from more study and a deeper understanding, and so the playing field is level only during the same time period; not between two different generations of players | ||
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bine
United States2352 Posts
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StreaK
Canada580 Posts
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Pressure
7326 Posts
On February:26 StreaK wrote: I think sAviOr will choke in the finals vs NaDa. go go 3-0 NaDa! ahahhaahah | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
On February 17 2007 20:45 tomatriedes wrote: Unfortunately YellOw  | ||
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baelrog
Austria705 Posts
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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kiddo
China5 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 18 2007 12:56 baelrog wrote: why is gorush never mentined when takled about july/savioor. in his prime he was also nearly unbeatable only that his prime was a bit shorter than julys. to me gorush always comes off as savior's predecessor so he kind of gets overshadowed, especially since his dominating period lasted only a season or so, he had the similar great game managment, usually macro oriented style that was basically a less fine tuned savior. | ||
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
On February 18 2007 07:24 tomatriedes wrote: Actually that sounds completely right. But why did it take so long for Savior to emerge in the OSL then? Did he concentrate more on the MSL before or was there no particular reason? why does july not do well in the MSL? why can't he qualify for most of them? how come anytime does so well in OSL but hasn't ever qualified for MSL? it goes both ways, just bcuz it took longer for a couple players to make it into the OSL doesn't make it harder. MSLs old format, if anything, was much more difficult than the OSLs. OSLs format depends heavily on a bit of luck and draw for group stages, and it also depends a lot on how the other players in your group play out. in the old MSL double elimination, the best player at the time usually won. | ||
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falis
United States20 Posts
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