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+ Show Spoiler +If Savior is to beat Nada next Saturday he has the odds stacked against him.
In OSL ZvT final series terrans have an incredible 8 wins out of 9 (and 4 out of 6 in the MSL). Does anyone have any theories why the zergs always choke on the final hurdle?
Yellow and Chojja (great players though they were) particularly had this problem- play great throughout a tournament then lose it at the end. If Savior can pull it off (calm down Nada fanboys I said 'if') then surely he would have to be rated as the greatest zerg of all time.
Up till now because he hasn't won the OSL and July has twice I think its too hard to call (OSL>MSL IMO). But if he can beat the greatest terran of all time (in terms of results anyway) for this title then I think he will move ahead of July. (oops, there's another topic)
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on this website we use the tag [spoiler] before any discussion threads over recent games. furthermore you shouldn't give anything away by the title eg [spoiler]preOSL Final Discussion
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The maps have rarely been favorable to zerg but the main reason is that the terran players have just been better historically. There's never been a dominant zerg force like Savior. But Nada has the skill and experience to fight Savior and the map pool should give him the edge. I think it will be 3-2 either way.
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On February 17 2007 19:40 L!MP wrote:
on this website we use the tag [spoiler] before any discussion threads over recent games. furthermore you shouldn't give anything away by the title eg [spoiler]preOSL Final Discussion
Sorry, noob mistake. 
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On February 17 2007 19:42 nova_442 wrote:
The maps have rarely been favorable to zerg but the main reason is that the terran players have just been better historically. There's never been a dominant zerg force like Savior. But Nada has the skill and experience to fight Savior and the map pool should give him the edge. I think it will be 3-2 either way.
But sometimes the zerg players have beaten really good terrans on the way to the finals. If it was just because of terran dominance they wouldn't have even made it to the finals.
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There were NEVER any GREAT zerg players in the past.
Yellow was never great.
Chojja was never great.
The terran players were always great,
Boxer, Nada, Xellos, iloveoov
However, in the past few years, we've seen great zerg players emerge, in the forms of July and Savior.
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I think it comes down to the fact zerg are easy to cheese in single games and theres not really much they can do to prepare for it, so in best of fives they usually lose one sometimes two games to a timing rush of some sort meaning they have to be a fair bit better than thier opponent to win
edit: this is mostly the fault of maps
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I'll just wait until the mad flaming starts.
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On February 17 2007 20:08 nortydog wrote:
I think it comes down to the fact zerg are easy to cheese in single games and theres not really much they can do to prepare for it, so in best of fives they usually lose one sometimes two games to a timing rush of some sort meaning they have to be a fair bit better than thier opponent to win
edit: this is mostly the fault of maps
That sounds like a good explanation. It seems that zerg have more chance of winning a single game or a best of 3 than a best of 5. But hopefully Savior can break the trend. Even on these maps.
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Savior said Nada has nothing on him.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
4 out of 6 in MSL?
I can only think of 1 ZvT final... GoRush vs NaDa on YTGK finals... what's the other one? (after that it was Savior vs Reach, Savior vs ChoJJa, Savior vs Ra, Savior vs Silver)
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04/02 KPGA 1st Tour - (T)BoxeR > (Z)YellOw
06/02 KPGA 2nd Tour - (T)NaDa > (Z)YellOw
10/02 KPGA 3rd Tour - (T)NaDa > (P)Reach
01/03 KPGA 4th Tour - (T)NaDa > (Z)ChOJJa
03/03 KTEC KPGA - (Z)YellOw > (T)BoxeR
07/03 Stout MSL - (P)Nal_rA > NaDa
11/03 Trigem MSL - (T)iloveoov > (Z)YellOw
04/04 HanaFOS CENGAME MSL - (T)iloveoov > (T)NaDa
08/04 SPRIS MSL - (T)iloveoov > (P)Kingdom
02/05 You're the Golf King MSL - (Z)GoRush > (T)NaDa
08/05 UZOO MSL - (Z)sAviOr > (P)Reach
01/06 LG CYON MSL - (Z)ChOJJa > (Z)sAviOr
07/06 Pringles 1 MSL - (Z)sAviOr > (P)Nal_rA
11/06 Pringles 2 MSL - (Z)sAviOr > (Z)SiLvEr
Maybe not called MSL then but was in the history of it.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
THE REAL QUESTION IS:
Poll: Who is bigger choker?
(Vote): YellOw in finals
(Vote): Midas in semifinals
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Unfortunately YellOw
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poor yellOw
<3
just checked, he has had like 7 top 4 finishes in osl/msl, yet he's won like 4 special events xD
As for this "zvt" curse, savior is going to wreck nada, regardless of maps. all maps favor savior, as do all matchups.
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On February 17 2007 20:58 decafchicken wrote:
poor yellOw
<3
As for this "zvt" curse, savior is going to wreck nada, regardless of maps. all maps favor savior, as do all matchups.
hahaha thats definately going in my quote
had to change it a little though =P
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
a mod needs to fix the thread title
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On February 17 2007 21:08 thedeadhaji wrote:
a mod needs to fix the thread title
Yeah, I can't change it now. I also just read about the 100 posts before making a thread unofficial rule. Oh well, let this be a lesson for you other noobs out there!
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On February 17 2007 19:30 tomatriedes wrote:
If Savior is to beat Nada next Saturday he has the odds stacked against him.
No, they're not. The odds are stacked against Nada because Savior at the moment is a better player than Nada
If you're trying to compare Nada vs Savior, then you need to compare Nada vs Savior. You don't compare Nada vs Savior by comparing results of previous zvt finals.
In OSL ZvT final series terrans have an incredible 8 wins out of 9 (and 4 out of 6 in the MSL). Does anyone have any theories why the zergs always choke on the final hurdle?
The answer is pretty obvious. The reason is because the zerg player lost to the better player at the time. I don't see what kind of theory is needed. It's not because there's a curse. It's not because god is on terran's side. It's not because zergs always choke on the final hurdle. It's not because of some predetermined destiny. It's because it just happens that the terran players played better than the zerg players (and/or the maps were good for terran) at the time, and as a result won more finals.
Yellow and Chojja (great players though they were) particularly had this problem- play great throughout a tournament then lose it at the end.
You cited 2 examples to support your opinion, while completely ignoring other examples that does not support your opinion. For example, Gorush did beat Nada in MSL final. Similarly, July has beaten GF in OSL final. Sometimes zerg players win in finals zvt, sometimes they lose. There is nothing really special. Players lose sometimes, win sometimes, depending on their shape, their opponents, the maps, etc. There really is nothing surprising about the past zvt final results. Players win because they played better and/or the maps helped them. Players didn't win because there's some kind of curse.
If Savior can pull it off (calm down Nada fanboys I said 'if') then surely he would have to be rated as the greatest zerg of all time.
Why exactly the statement in parenthesis is needed? It's totally unnecessary
Up till now because he hasn't won the OSL and July has twice I think its too hard to call (OSL>MSL IMO). But if he can beat the greatest terran of all time (in terms of results anyway) for this title then I think he will move ahead of July. (oops, there's another topic)
I can't see how July can be greater than Savior, regardless of the results in the upcoming finals.
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EPT
