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The more I look over Protac's case, the more I disagree.
He's silent during the time between DrH winning and Kav getting flipped, even though he was conveniently defending Kav strongly before this time. And guess what? Although Coag was adamantly against the lynch earlier and attacks the lynch right after it occurs, he is mysteriously silent right before the lynch and doesn't bother saving Kav at a moment where his arguments could be critical. It didn’t look like kav was going to get lynched until the last minute vote switch by prot himself and chaoser. The situation 5 minutes before night time was:
1) GMarshal was ahead with no intention of lynching kav.
2) DrH talked about lynching me over Kav
Prot and chaoser last minute vote switch 1 minute before night time, and DrH posts his lynch post 5 minutes past. So protact’s argument is that coag should have convinced DrH otherwise in 6 minute.
The most blatant contradiction is how Protac says that Coag is useless and spam, when coag actively argued against lynching an active analyzer, while Protac himself got the active analyzer lynched.
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Ok people. Here's the fucking situation broken out into it's various possibilities
[code]
1) Prot is Assassin
2) Prot is Mafia
3) Prot is Blue
[/codes]
Assassin
On April 13 2011 17:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Let me stress this again one more time.
The only way Protactinium can get a win off this play is if he and Coagulation are the two assassins.
This assumes that:
-Coagulation is an assassin
-There are only two assassins in the game.
I find the second prospect highly unlikely. In the event of 3 assassins, Protactinium is almost guaranteed loss.
I seriously doubt this is a bid for medic protection and honestly I don't care because:
a)In order to get the medic protection he'd have to be correct about Coag. This is a huge gamble.
b)This will still give him a real check on night 2 to use again in our favor, particularly if he strikes red with it. This benefits town.
However this play could also make sense under a third condition:
Protactinium and Coagulation are both red. An early bus like this puts Protactinium in a position where he is trusted and he could simply spend the rest of the game saying he never got another red check while busting out misleading analysis.
I find this very unlikely. Detective is imo the trickiest and worst claim for a mafia to make and he really had no reason to be desperate. If he wanted to avoid getting hit by assassins he could have just made a safe claim that's easy to fake like Veteran or Vigilante.
Mafia
He's either bussing a teammate or he's lying. If Coag flips red, awesome, we killed a read. If Coag flips green we know he's lying. Either way, we don't protect and let assassins deal with it. Cool? If he is mafia, he just died to night kills. Awesome.
Detective
People are saying his moves don't make sense when they actually do.
1) He claims assassin to draw out opposition against him from mafia/assassins
2) He "messes" up the assassin count to throw assassins off. At the same time, he gives a count to take mafia off his back. Why use a KP on an assassin when others will take care of him soon? (even so, it's not like they can do anything anyway Night 1)
3) He checks one off the list that appears of people who are 100% against him
4) He hits red, he tells town. EZ LYNCH
So whether he is assassin, mafia, or detective, all we need to do is lynch coag and don't protect prot for a win-win situation. If he's lying, he'll get killed by assassins since they wouldn't want to risk him actually being assassin. If he's telling the truth, we just lynched mafia, pat ourselves on the back. Either way we don't protect him and let assassins deal with it. Cool?
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1) Prot is Assassin
2) Prot is Mafia
3) Prot is Blue
;_;
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All the detractors really can't argue against
1) Lynch Coag
2) Don't protect Prot
Best Move For Town. Doesn't matter what happens, it removes WIFOM and it catches us atleast one red. If Prot is black he wouldn't be doing this.
If you're going to claim he's doing this all for the lulz then I'mma laugh at you because you're fucking scum for trying to push the point that he's playing a move that's less logical than the situation I've explained.
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On April 13 2011 23:45 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 23:31 Jackal58 wrote:On April 13 2011 22:34 DarthThienAn wrote:
a townie has no reason to lie about this.
Therefore, it's win-win. If Coag is town and Pro is mafia, I'll take the 1-1. If they're both mafia, then even better lol. Why lynch Proact? An assassin or scum will kill him tonight. Don't protect him let him die. If he doesn't ignore him. He's a liar. Anything he says is now pushing a liars agenda. We don't know what he is. All we know is anything he says has to justify his lies. Which one is the lie? How the fuck do I know? All I know is he has 0 credibility with me. He's not worth wasting a lynch on atm. Lynches are priceless to us. Why waste one on an Assassin/DT/Liar? Let the assassins deal with him. How does that go against lynching Coag? ... o.O. If Proact dies tonight, then someone did our job for us, assuming he's mafia...
I'm not arguing for or against lynching Coag. I'm saying don't lynch Coag based upon anything a confirmed liar posted. I'm saying don't waste a lynch on Proact.
Coag claimed to be a vet. Somebody shoot him.
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United States22154 Posts
I can argue against it!
Here is why: we have a *confirmed* liar telling us to lynch someone who you think *might* be lying, normally I would argue that we lynch the liar first and take it from there. But you point out that both are going to die is irrlevant, as policy we don't lynch on a liar's claims, period.
This is a waste of a lynch if coag is what he claims, a vet.
I have an alternate suggestion, ignore the two, have a vigi hit coag tonight, if his claim is false then coag is dead, wham we got scum, if he is telling the truth we have a confirmed townie.
In the meantime assassins take care of protac for us, no need to expend a lynch on a situation that is easily resolvable. Instead we can direct our lynch at a real scum supect, like M0nster or AO.
I think this is the best solution to the problem.
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United States22154 Posts
Jackal you ninja! 
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On April 14 2011 00:32 GMarshal wrote:
I can argue against it!
Here is why: we have a *confirmed* liar telling us to lynch someone who you think *might* be lying, normally I would argue that we lynch the liar first and take it from there. But you point out that both are going to die is irrlevant, as policy we don't lynch on a liar's claims, period.
This is a waste of a lynch if coag is what he claims, a vet.
I have an alternate suggestion, ignore the two, have a vigi hit coag tonight, if his claim is false then coag is dead, wham we got scum, if he is telling the truth we have a confirmed townie.
In the meantime assassins take care of protac for us, no need to expend a lynch on a situation that is easily resolvable. Instead we can direct our lynch at a real scum supect, like M0nster or AO.
I think this is the best solution to the problem.
lol. Why is it a waste again? We get a 1 for 1. There's almost no way FW is assassin. The chances of him being assassin are so low it's not even feasible in my mind. If he is assassin this is the worst play ever and would only work out in his favor if coag is the only other assassin around.
But even considering that he MIGHT be assassin and that he is making the worst play ever, we don't protect him and it all sorts itself out by end of night. Liars shouldn't be trusted when they lead us into a mindfuck of a situation where the moves we make will have unclear results and the results are varied, some in out favor, some not. In this situation, every result is in our favor if we
1) lynch coag
2) don't protect prot
In that situation I say we do it
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Once again, the rewards we reap from this situation far outweighs the negatives
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United States22154 Posts
Why are you suggesting we waste our lynch? There is litereally no chance of prot/fw being dt. None.
fw is a vet, he knows what he is doing. What "advantages" does he gain from fakeclaiming assassin day 1? he "lures out reds?" He self proclaims his ability as a scum hunter yet he runs claiming a third party wincon? As a dt he could claim dt, get in office and rape scum with both analysis and his dt checks. Instead he uses a convoluted plan?
This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people.
See what he did last day and what he’s doing now. He is gambling on getting med protection. His actions have shown he is in no means a dt. It is anti town to play the way he has and he certainly cannot claim inexperience.
In a setup with a known liar claiming dt and finding scum you lynch the accuser. Lynching the accused tells you nothing about the accuser. You always lynch the accuser first. Add in the rule of Lynch all Liars you have the person you should be lynching first.
Coag has also claimed a role that is provable with a night hit. Shoot him and get a confirmed townie to rally around! Mafia has to waste hits killing him, medics can prot him and we make the mafia uncomfortable. Seems like a better investment than lynching and moving on.
It makes most sense to
Lynch neither of them.
Vigi coag
Assassins will almost deff shoot prot, and we lynch someone that we aren’t relying on a third parties “word” is red.
Seriously is it that hard to see?
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At the same time, we should continue to scum hunt and I will be once I finish all my work today
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On April 14 2011 01:01 GMarshal wrote:
Why are you suggesting we waste our lynch? There is litereally no chance of prot/fw being dt. None.
fw is a vet, he knows what he is doing. What "advantages" does he gain from fakeclaiming assassin day 1? he "lures out reds?" He self proclaims his ability as a scum hunter yet he runs claiming a third party wincon? As a dt he could claim dt, get in office and rape scum with both analysis and his dt checks. Instead he uses a convoluted plan?
This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people.
See what he did last day and what he’s doing now. He is gambling on getting med protection. His actions have shown he is in no means a dt. It is anti town to play the way he has and he certainly cannot claim inexperience.
In a setup with a known liar claiming dt and finding scum you lynch the accuser. Lynching the accused tells you nothing about the accuser. You always lynch the accuser first. Add in the rule of Lynch all Liars you have the person you should be lynching first.
Coag has also claimed a role that is provable with a night hit. Shoot him and get a confirmed townie to rally around! Mafia has to waste hits killing him, medics can prot him and we make the mafia uncomfortable. Seems like a better investment than lynching and moving on.
It makes most sense to
Lynch neither of them.
Vigi coag
Assassins will almost deff shoot prot, and we lynch someone that we aren’t relying on a third parties “word” is red.
Seriously is it that hard to see?
Nah yo, if you're mafia then this is the BEST reason to lynch coag. Mafia's best play if coag was mafia is to pardon him. We're forcing your hand if that's the case. Why put off something we're sure of. Why waste a shot on coag when we could use them on other scum?
As a dt he could claim dt, get in office and rape scum with both analysis and his dt checks.
You saw what happened to Pandain when he claimed DT. He was destroyed by town. A DT claim would cause massive scrutiny by all and in the end he would learn nothing. An assassin claim would only really cause scum, another blacks, and a few townies to be against him. It's a brilliant plan
This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people.
If he thinks you're mafia then this play would make sense. Rather have a townie mayor make a mistake Day 1 Lynch than a mafia in office. You yourself even said that you might consider Kav as the day went on yesterday btw. You even said he was acting scummy and posting for the sake of posting with his "help". Are you backtracking that?
See what he did last day and what he’s doing now. He is gambling on getting med protection.
Whatever happens we don't give him medic protect. BAM. Resolves your issue.
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BTW, if you're so fiercely LAL, day one you would have said you were lynching pandain. but you didn't. =/ contradictionnnnnnn
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SUPER HOST TO SAVE THE DAY!!!
First things first, Coag, please cut out the personal attacks, flaming, and allcaps. This is the last time I'll ask nicely. Also, Doc H, you've done it a couple times too, so please don't 
Second, CubEdIn is indeed back, replacing Latrommi. What is up with all these people dropping I don't even.
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I'm not sure I agree with you chaoser that it's smarter to use a lynch on coag than to let protac die to assassin. But I agree with you that we shouldn't stop scum hunting.
Jaminez I want to hear your opinion on this situation and your mafia/town reads. Same for you conversion.
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Also, @Dr.H I'm willing to consider a kav lynch, if you provide me with solid reasoning, I have a 70% town read on kav atm, can you point out what he has said that makes you think he is scum? It dosn't have to be terribly detailed, just the salient points of why.
Kavdragon- He has some really scummy posts, give him a looksee
Kav, are you aware that there is a guide that pretty much covers that?
Also I hate to say this, but that is a major example of a noncontributing post that looks like a fucking huge wall of text imo, because it is actualy irrelevant to the current situation, it in no way helps the newbies choose a mayor or make any major decisions at the moment.
I applaud the effort though, and I agree with the majority of the ideas contained therein
My only worry about you in power kav is that your 3rd party play in insane 2 was so good that Im afraid you could be scum and be getting away with it here.
Look at this wishy washy bullshit. You pepper, IN THE SAME POSTS, positions that Kav might be scum....OR MIGHT BE TOWN. And then you post this stuff:
This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people.
Like you were compeletely against Kav's lynch the whole entire time. Yeah, ok lol
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On April 13 2011 05:54 redFF wrote:
Since we are posting scum lists:
M0nsterChef
OriginalName
Kevconsim
GM
Go read my previous posts for those 4
Mig- not sure about. He was acting very scummy early on, and voting for GM. ON also did a contentless PBPA on him and concluded town. All this did is make him look far more suspicious in my eyes.
I also think coag is an assassin, because of how batshit crazy he went every time protact got a vote for mayor.
On April 13 2011 12:41 redFF wrote:
Going to sleep, might as well post some final thoughts in case i die.
My personal Scum list-
GM
OriginalName
m0nsterChef
My possible scum list-
Mig- very suspicious early on. and ON gave him a townie read with an awful PBPA.
AO- Started out as a huge scum read. But he's requesting the lynch of ON and m0nsterChef so it's hard to tell.
I think coag is an assassin for what it's worth at this point.
Please don't waste any time talking about serejai, focus on catching and lynching scum.
Bum and DrH are town, listen to them.
Since you never answered my question. Why am i not on here. I did not post one time in between lists. What changed in you mind about me? [b]REDFF[/b]
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United States22154 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:09 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 01:01 GMarshal wrote:
Why are you suggesting we waste our lynch? There is litereally no chance of prot/fw being dt. None.
fw is a vet, he knows what he is doing. What "advantages" does he gain from fakeclaiming assassin day 1? he "lures out reds?" He self proclaims his ability as a scum hunter yet he runs claiming a third party wincon? As a dt he could claim dt, get in office and rape scum with both analysis and his dt checks. Instead he uses a convoluted plan?
This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people.
See what he did last day and what he’s doing now. He is gambling on getting med protection. His actions have shown he is in no means a dt. It is anti town to play the way he has and he certainly cannot claim inexperience.
In a setup with a known liar claiming dt and finding scum you lynch the accuser. Lynching the accused tells you nothing about the accuser. You always lynch the accuser first. Add in the rule of Lynch all Liars you have the person you should be lynching first.
Coag has also claimed a role that is provable with a night hit. Shoot him and get a confirmed townie to rally around! Mafia has to waste hits killing him, medics can prot him and we make the mafia uncomfortable. Seems like a better investment than lynching and moving on.
It makes most sense to
Lynch neither of them.
Vigi coag
Assassins will almost deff shoot prot, and we lynch someone that we aren’t relying on a third parties “word” is red.
Seriously is it that hard to see? Nah yo, if you're mafia then this is the BEST reason to lynch coag. Mafia's best play if coag was mafia is to pardon him. We're forcing your hand if that's the case. Why put off something we're sure of. Why waste a shot on coag when we could use them on other scum? Show nested quote +As a dt he could claim dt, get in office and rape scum with both analysis and his dt checks. You saw what happened to Pandain when he claimed DT. He was destroyed by town. A DT claim would cause massive scrutiny by all and in the end he would learn nothing. An assassin claim would only really cause scum, another blacks, and a few townies to be against him. It's a brilliant plan Show nested quote +This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people. If he thinks you're mafia then this play would make sense. Rather have a townie mayor make a mistake Day 1 Lynch than a mafia in office. You yourself even said that you might consider Kav as the day went on yesterday btw. You even said he was acting scummy and posting for the sake of posting with his "help". Are you backtracking that? Show nested quote +See what he did last day and what he’s doing now. He is gambling on getting med protection. Whatever happens we don't give him medic protect. BAM. Resolves your issue.
I thought I made it clear that while I endorse LaL i'd rather see it enforced by vigis? Policy lynches are impossible to analyze because the mafia can happily jump on them and this makes the lynch much less effective at granting information. I explained this earlier.
Also fw didn't have to claim dt, he could have run on "Im a fucking god among analysts" and most of the town, including me would have probably voted him in.
Claiming assassin if you are not is 100% stupid, I dont care what "brilliant" justifications he is coming up with now, this smacks of LSB's bait and switch.
And while I said that I considered that kav deserved scrutiny you'll notice that I was going to lynch an inactive or a lurker, not kav.
Also when did this turn into a personal attack on me? I'm trying to stop you from making a mistake
Also you seem to be considering that the vigi shot is super valuable, more often than not vigi shots end up going into the town, with coag at least theres a clear target. If coag *is* a vet then we have a confirmed townie who we can rally around, who mafia have no choice but to waste kp on while our medics protect him. If by some miracle he isn't shot tonight and all kp are accounted then he is definitely mafia, probably the gf since he seems to want a dt check so bad
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United States22154 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:35 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Also, @Dr.H I'm willing to consider a kav lynch, if you provide me with solid reasoning, I have a 70% town read on kav atm, can you point out what he has said that makes you think he is scum? It dosn't have to be terribly detailed, just the salient points of why. Show nested quote +Kav, are you aware that there is a guide that pretty much covers that?
Also I hate to say this, but that is a major example of a noncontributing post that looks like a fucking huge wall of text imo, because it is actualy irrelevant to the current situation, it in no way helps the newbies choose a mayor or make any major decisions at the moment.
I applaud the effort though, and I agree with the majority of the ideas contained therein Show nested quote +My only worry about you in power kav is that your 3rd party play in insane 2 was so good that Im afraid you could be scum and be getting away with it here. Look at this wishy washy bullshit. You pepper, IN THE SAME POSTS, positions that Kav might be scum....OR MIGHT BE TOWN. And then you post this stuff: Show nested quote +This is the same experienced player that then last minute voteswings a mayoral vote and gets a known town analyzer killed. A town member who was posting helpfully to new players, as well as analyzing people. Like you were compeletely against Kav's lynch the whole entire time. Yeah, ok lol
I never said I was against kav's lynch, ever. Please stop putting words in my mouth, I agreed that kav looked scummy, but in retrospect you can't deny that his posts were helpful to newbies.
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Will you two stop it please and start pressuring people that are content just letting you fight it out.
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EPT
