On August 25 2011 11:08 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 11:05 iGrok wrote:
##Vote Mig
Lets start this day off right.
Kurumi, you couldn't have shot someone a little more scummy? Palmar-Mig-hiro protagonist-supersoft circle was worrying me. Palmar was clearly cluttering the thread when the day was about to end also he aimed to a no-lynch. I feared that supersoft could've been scum doc'd if there is one present. Lack of RB is just wifom. Someone wants to claim rb? _________ Btw, supersoft earns my vote. He said nothing from his own perspective and always parrotted/sheeped Palmar. I will talk about it a little bit more when it is not 4am.
Okay you obviously didn't read the thread. I sheeped Palmar one single time at the start of the game to initiate any action because nothing was going on. It was completely random, that I picked Palmars accuses on DB. As I said before I just wanted to initiate any discussion.
On August 19 2011 18:39 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 18:34 Varpulis wrote:
hey guys, your pressure won't work if you say that it's pressure.
just sayin. When you vote, vote for scum. Vote with the intention of lynching whoever you're voting for. Don't just mindlessly vote for people for "pressure," and if you are, for the love of god don't tell the person that you're voting for that it's pressure. okay well, it's not exactly pressure what i wanted to achieve, i think it's more like get this game going.but you're right. Maybe it's not good to explain everything you do.
________________
After that I started to accuse xtfftc.
[QUOTE]On August 20 2011 07:53 supersoft wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 20 2011 07:38 BrownBear wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 20 2011 05:09 xtfftc wrote:
##Vote: Palmar
He obviously had something in mind and there's no way he wasn't aware of how his accusations would be perceived by the rest of us.
However, his strategy hasn't benefited town by now. He has until the deadline to convince me to vote DropBear or BrownBear. If nothing meaningful comes out of the discussion initiated by him, I'd rather have one less player who throws arbitrary accusations around.
I'd also like to point out that it shouldn't be that difficult to convince me to switch to DropBear, considering DropBear's behaviour. [/QUOTE]
ah, okay I understand, you vote for palmar, not because you think he's scum, but because he didn't convince you to vote for DB. This is scumlogic. Town doesn't vote people for playing bad. Town votes for scum.
Compared to DP, who proposed some really useless plans like this unnecessary mayorthing, your stuff seems more scummy to me.
##unvote
##vote: xtfftc[/QUOTE]
after that I defended severyn right when the accuses against him began. At the same time I encouraged people to vote, because I think it's good to see early where the majority of the votes will probably go. It's just better for the discussion in my eyes. Otherwise there are hectic voteswitches at the end of the day and the whole thing is just a lot more random, but noone would listen. Especially the dear members of our scumteam xtfftc and nard.
Consequently, because my both mainsuspects at this point of time didn't vote for severyn, I voted him because I doubted his innocence at this moment.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 21 2011 03:33 supersoft wrote:
perfect, xtfftc and nard both refuse to vote for sevryn and say they want to wait until he defends himself. There is no reason not to vote him until he defends himself. Not only does this behavior back up my doubts on your innocence. But it also changes my mind about sevryn.
Since noone is going to follow my vote on xtfftc who is my primetarget I am going to switch on sevryn.
When I realized, that he wouldn't defend himself, I told him to get up and do something, what was very important, because if he were scum, we would get more informations out of him:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 21 2011 08:22 supersoft wrote:
sevryn, if you are innocent, defend yourself. it's not too late. If you are town, you should try to.
Only scum doesn't self-defend, because they could give away important information to the town.
Prove your innocence by contributing a lot!
If not, we may end this day now. You got about 15 votes - counted without the people that claimed to switch their votes to achieve a majoritysituation. On August 21 2011 08:27 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 05:26 Sevryn wrote:
/in this looks awesome and I am about to die in XLIV good god, you're such a douche. Why exactly do you even play this game? "awww there are 15 votes on me and the day ends in 5 hours - okay i give up"
He defended himself and jackal proposed another target: Rayzorflash
The case against RayzorFlash was much better and I tryed to swing the votes from sev to him.
people who agreed me there were:
Sevryn (dead town)
Jackal58 (dead town)
supersoft
Foolishness
Trotske (now iGrok)
Navillus
hiro protagonist (dead town)
wherebugsgo
varpulis
curu
hiro (dead town)
I believe amongst those people, there is probably no scum - and rayzorflash is probably scum.
I believe the scumteam stayed afk there.
ANYWAY:
Day2 started and people started accusing mig. I wasn't sure about him (and still aren't) so i tried to get a discussion about the rayzorflash incident going.
In the progress xtfftc crossed my way again:
[QUOTE]On August 23 2011 03:52 supersoft wrote:
funny how xtfftc, vain and rayzorflash defend each other ;-)
[QUOTE]On August 23 2011 02:58 Vain wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 23 2011 02:44 supersoft wrote:
why don't we lynch RayzorFlash? He's probably gotten coached and his death would give us a lot of information to work with...[/QUOTE]
Can you write out what information we get then? In my opinion that only creates more wifom[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On August 23 2011 03:30 xtfftc wrote:
He (Vain) is saying that if we agree on one single target for a vigilante, mafia would know who to protect.[/QUOTE]
@vain:
you want an answer to your question? filter me.
[/QUOTE]
after that the stupid DB thing happened and I had to explain why the DT-checks are worthless. I gave away my role in that thing... I still am VT.
when the DB thing was over with him claiming medic etc. I went back on xtfftc because he refused to answer my questions about other players I was suspicious of like nard.
Suddenly people went on hiro. I didn't understand this badwagon and I still don't.
I told you so and refused to vote him:
[QUOTE]On August 24 2011 05:30 supersoft wrote:
i believe hero is innocent and mafia is superhappy because they save xtfftc today...
at least i am schocked how fast that hiro bandwagon started out of the nowhere...[/QUOTE]
i admit, I could have explained my reasons a little bit better, but basically thats it.
ah no I also remebered that hiro helped with the severyn/rayzorflash thing and I didn't want to lynch anyone from that rayzorflahsvoting-list.
turned out I was correct.
now people hate me for pushing lynches on scum and defending townies. *clap*
|
Okay, my promised analysis is coming up. (I am now on a laptop).
Mig is a hard player to analyze. IMO, it's because he's good. A good scum will be hard to analyze. The goal of scum during the day is to achieve their agenda while deceiving the town into believing that they are one of us. Mig is no exception, but I think he has made mistakes in attempting to cover himself.
WALL OF TEXT INCOMING. The post only truly makes sense with everything, but if you are short on time, skip to the bottom, my conclusion. To make this easier I've put all my analysis prior to the conclusion into spoilers to save space.
On August 21 2011 08:56 Mig wrote:
The Vet point for chaoser is accurate but there is a pretty huge difference between being such a dominating force and providing detailed and good scum hunting and his play this game. The main thing to look at is chaoser's motivation. In 39 he ran a gambit where he pressure voted early just to try and get a read on a player. He was actively searching for scum, he was questioning people repeatedly early on. This game he has been completely MIA he asked nav like 2 questions, which he didn't follow up on at all. He is putting 0 effort into helping the town when he very capable.
+ Show Spoiler +From what I understand of your meta, you've been playing pretty differently for being town too. I highlighted this sentence because, IMO, it draws attention away from your own "town flaws" this game; e.g. lack of effort, asking questions, analysis. Your first post in the game has been identified numerous times by other people as being scummy. If you replace chaoser with your own name, your argument would still hold.
My argument here is that, this post makes sense as mafia only for a good player. A good mafia player will want to shift the suspicion off themselves by establishing themselves as a good town player early. This fucks with the town greatly, because it induces a sense of paranoia when a player who seems town begins to show signs of scumminess, but leaves few obvious, objective tells.
In 39 chaoser absolutely dominated as town single handedly taking out half the scum team within the first 2 days. In that game he didn't make any fluff posts giving generic advice, he spent all his time actively pressuring people and doing real scum hunting. And now look at his play and his activity this game. It is the polar opposite.
I still think sevryn is scummy but his play is at least similar to his town meta, chaoser is playing completely out of character for his town play and is contributing nothing when he is a very strong player.
Vote: Chaoser
If people don't switch I will go back to sevryn before the deadline.
Alone, this line is not fishy. But with the following:
On August 21 2011 09:50 Mig wrote:
Lynch is definitely better than no lynch. But so no one is suspicious of chaoser besides me/db? Jackal/palmar/supersoft what do you think of him?
+ Show Spoiler +Why do you need to reiterate that lynch is better than no lynch? We know that. Why repeat it?
This is the third post you push after chaoser, but each one is just looking for someone who also shares a suspicion of him. You do nothing to actually further your case, just keep asking if anyone else is willing to back you up. This is a little suspicious, but nothing definitive. It only makes sense in the context of other things you've done.
Again, it is my opinion that Mig continues to try to establish himself as a contributing townie. His failure is in that there actually is little contribution, just things on the surface. Mig, as a good player, has seen holes in chaoser's play and is attempting to take advantage of that to paint chaoser as mafia.
Caveat:
+ Show Spoiler +This doesn't rule out the possibility that chaoser could still be mafia, though. The pressure that Mig put on chaoser wasn't serious; no matter chaoser's alignment, it was always unlikely that he would get lynched. Thus, no matter what chaoser's alignment ultimately is, Mig benefits from pushing for his lynch.
1. If chaoser is town, Mig can push his lynch softly and not expect the lynch to actually follow; however, by pretending to contribute, he can build towncred for himself.
2. If chaoser is mafia, Mig can potentially bus him at the right opportunity and gain a LOT of towncred for himself. Palmar did this with hiro, for example, among the last days in one of the mini-mafias that I read over today and yesterday, if I remember correctly.
On August 22 2011 17:57 Mig wrote:
Super if I am mafia and I was trying to save rayzor why did I even post saying why I was going to keep my vote on sevryn? Why was I putting the effort in to try and get people to switch to chaoser before the end of the day? If I knew sevryn was green and I was mafia I could have just sat back and pretended I wasn't there to avoid suspicion.
You say it was obvious sevryn was green but after reading rayzor's post about being willing to take the blame if sevryn flipped green, sevryn seemed a lot more likely to be mafia. I agree if rayzor is actually red I look very bad but I put my vote on who I thought was most likely to be scum.
+ Show Spoiler +The answer to your question is that you're a better player than that. You know that it would be suspicious for you to sit back and let Sevryn get lynched by bandwagoning him, without any real analysis of your own (because, as mafia, you often have little real analysis to make unless a townie fucks up) So, instead, you chose to target chaoser because you thought you could capitalize on his change in behavior. This makes you less suspicious, as by pushing forward a different lynch target, when Sevryn flipped green you could go back and say, "well I wanted to lynch chaoser."
In addition, by presenting a semi-valid argument (that chaoser's meta suggested he's acting as mafia) you can pretend to contribute, and avoid suspicion by taking on the role of an active townie.
Of course, it was also effective in throwing suspicion off of yourself for that really scummy first post about Sevryn. It wasn't necessary, but the mark of a careful player, as by the time you began to push for chaoser it was already obvious that Sevryn was probably going to die/be one of the main lynch targets.
And, as for Rayzor, we'll get to that later.
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
My activity this game has been a lot lower than most of my games. I am really burned out on mafia right now. I have played too many games recently and I am going to take a break after this game. I have to force myself just to actually read the thread. It is no excuse for my poor play but it is the truth. So if I am lynched because of it my apologies for sucking.
But is no one else seeing the extremely poor reasoning behind some of the people jumping on my bandwagon?
Jackal - gives no reason whatsoever for voting me
dropbear - First you say you are ok with hiro because he tried to lead the lynch off of sevryn. Wtf I was trying to get people to vote chaoser before the rayzor bandwagon even really got started. And you even agreed with me while I was trying to make it happen. You then proceed to vote for me without giving a single reason.
Varp - Did you even read my post about meta arguments or did you just intentionally ignore the meaning of it? I am not against meta arguments. I used meta arguments to help get you lynched in the last game we played together. I use meta pretty much every game I play. My entire point was foolishness' meta argument was trash and didn't actually show I was scum at all.
Curu - just a pure meta reason
Nobody has defended me at all this game. Has my play really been so scummy this game that if I were mafia not a single one of my team members would be willing to try and save me?
If am lynched because of my poor play it's my own fault but people should take a look at everything surrounding my bandwagon.
Anyway it doesn't appear I have any shot at convincing people to vote chaoser so I will write up a case on who I feel is the next scummiest in the next few minutes.
Alright, let's break this one down a bit.
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
My activity this game has been a lot lower than most of my games. I am really burned out on mafia right now. I have played too many games recently and I am going to take a break after this game. I have to force myself just to actually read the thread. It is no excuse for my poor play but it is the truth. So if I am lynched because of it my apologies for sucking.
But is no one else seeing the extremely poor reasoning behind some of the people jumping on my bandwagon?
+ Show Spoiler +In red is the appeal to emotion. Mig isn't tired, he's just fucking with us.
Then comes the defense of himself. At the time he posted it, I thought it was a good defense. I really did, and I'm pretty sure it's because the emotional appeal primed me to believe him. But look at how he shifts the attention away from himself immediately before he becomes the majority lynch target:
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
Jackal - gives no reason whatsoever for voting me
+ Show Spoiler +False, Jackal cited Mig's scummy first post on Sevryn and also his late vote.
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
dropbear - First you say you are ok with hiro because he tried to lead the lynch off of sevryn. Wtf I was trying to get people to vote chaoser before the rayzor bandwagon even really got started. And you even agreed with me while I was trying to make it happen. You then proceed to vote for me without giving a single reason.
+ Show Spoiler +Mig highlighting a bad townie play
I have nothing really to say on the meta stuff, you guys form your own conclusions on that (did Mig contradict himself on the meta arguments? Iunno.)
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
Chaos did you even read my posts from yesterday? Did you see my case against DB? Every person who has voted me foolish/chaoser/you has completely ignored everything I did day2. Tell me how I wasn't helpful yesterday? I actively scum hunted and I provided GOOD analysis. Were my points against DB inaccurate? Was I stretching the truth to try and make him appear scummy? Actually look at my case and ask yourself whether that was a scum or townie driven analysis.
+ Show Spoiler +Actually, we all ignored DB because DB's actions were so farfetched and attention grabbing that he had to be town. That's why I ignored him, at least. Mafia would lie about a roleclaim, but not in the fashion that DB did. Mafia would roleclaim more like how hiro did, IMO.
drumroll....
CONCLUSION FOLLOWS:
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
One last thing. Why did jackal die last night? Was anyone else getting blue vibes from him? I wasn't. Had he been especially active or provided any strong analysis? No. So why was he shot instead of someone like Curu or you barundar?
My conclusion is that you shot him.
He was one of the players you were annoyed at for voting you, and then you saw the opportunity to paint chaos as the perpetrator. You are a good player. You can think ahead.
Yet, you had a problem with Jackal calling you out for being scum for "no reason whatsoever," whereas you're completely fine with Jackal being convinced that chaos is mafia based on almost nothing as well? That's pretty hypocritical.
However, more important is this, and if you're town and reading this, please bear with me. The conclusion I made above might seem really strange to you right now, and you don't have to agree with it. Here goes:
The following post has great relevance.
On August 21 2011 05:57 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 04:58 RayzorFlash wrote:
/in ... My first Mafia game, but I've been doing the research and it seems fun :D Somebody is being coached. + Show Spoiler +On August 19 2011 09:44 RayzorFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 09:37 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 09:34 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:32 ghrur wrote:On August 19 2011 09:31 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:02 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 08:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lol da eff?
I think the whole "single out kurumi" is pretty funny. He's "annoying"=lynch lol.
I'm sure there'll be clues to help us identify scum pretty quickly as people post. See, I am like "ok guys if You're clever enough I won't troll!" Then Mig fails his test. Navillus. Here's one for You! If You answer this correctly, I won't troll this game. You are in a room with three doors. The walls are sturdy and cold. You have full pack of dry lights. Scratching light against the pack will ignite it. How will You get out of here? Door 1: It has a very small window You can't see through, it's kind of foggy. Door 2: It has little opening in the lower bottom. Door 3: It's like one solid block. ooh ooh give me one!! There are 6 mafia in a town of thirty. Here is the discussion of the thirty people. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174Find all mafia. jackal, xfftc, poncho, foolishness, nard and palmar. that was easy, I wanted a hard one JeeJee I understand You like riddles, but could You say something about Navillus? He has the biggest posts in the thread and there are couple of them. I'd like to know what do You think about him. It does seem highly strange and suspicious that in a game full of lurkers, he's gone above and beyond to draw attention to himself... On August 19 2011 09:56 RayzorFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 09:48 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:46 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 09:42 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:37 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 09:34 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:32 ghrur wrote:On August 19 2011 09:31 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:02 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 08:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lol da eff?
I think the whole "single out kurumi" is pretty funny. He's "annoying"=lynch lol.
I'm sure there'll be clues to help us identify scum pretty quickly as people post. See, I am like "ok guys if You're clever enough I won't troll!" Then Mig fails his test. Navillus. Here's one for You! If You answer this correctly, I won't troll this game. You are in a room with three doors. The walls are sturdy and cold. You have full pack of dry lights. Scratching light against the pack will ignite it. How will Yu get out of here? Door 1: It has a very small window You can't see through, it's kind of foggy. Door 2: It has little opening in the lower bottom. Door 3: It's like one solid block. ooh ooh give me one!! There are 6 mafia in a town of thirty. Here is the discussion of the thirty people. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174Find all mafia. jackal, xfftc, poncho, foolishness, nard and palmar. that was easy, I wanted a hard one JeeJee I understand You like riddles, but could You say something about Navillus? He has the biggest posts in the thread and there are couple of them. I'd like to know what do You think about him. Just re-read hist posts.. he's using lots of words to basically say kill lurkers. Complete null-read, everyone of any alignment will agree to this. When he starts contributing opinions on players, we'll see. So You admitted that Navillus is only posting fluff so he looks like he is contributing without contributing? "everyone of any alignment" part is budging me. Yep, but what else are you gonna do in the beginning? Everything starts from fluff. If fluff continues, it's a different story of course. P.S. would totally appreciate it if you stopped capitalizing 'you'  On August 19 2011 09:44 RayzorFlash wrote:On August 19 2011 09:37 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 09:34 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:32 ghrur wrote:On August 19 2011 09:31 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:02 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 08:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lol da eff?
I think the whole "single out kurumi" is pretty funny. He's "annoying"=lynch lol.
I'm sure there'll be clues to help us identify scum pretty quickly as people post. See, I am like "ok guys if You're clever enough I won't troll!" Then Mig fails his test. Navillus. Here's one for You! If You answer this correctly, I won't troll this game. You are in a room with three doors. The walls are sturdy and cold. You have full pack of dry lights. Scratching light against the pack will ignite it. How will You get out of here? Door 1: It has a very small window You can't see through, it's kind of foggy. Door 2: It has little opening in the lower bottom. Door 3: It's like one solid block. ooh ooh give me one!! There are 6 mafia in a town of thirty. Here is the discussion of the thirty people. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174Find all mafia. jackal, xfftc, poncho, foolishness, nard and palmar. that was easy, I wanted a hard one JeeJee I understand You like riddles, but could You say something about Navillus? He has the biggest posts in the thread and there are couple of them. I'd like to know what do You think about him. It does seem highly strange and suspicious that in a game full of lurkers, he's gone above and beyond to draw attention to himself... how so? It would be very easy for scum to abide by the "three post a day" criteria if they wanted to... I just don't think it would be that effective, because just based on the sheer number of new people, and the ratio of scum-to-townie, there are inevitably going to be a lot of townies in the lurker list, and wasting town KPs on them would only make it easier for the scum... On August 19 2011 13:42 RayzorFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 12:00 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:56 RayzorFlash wrote:On August 19 2011 09:48 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:46 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 09:42 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:37 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 09:34 JeeJee wrote:jackal, xfftc, poncho, foolishness, nard and palmar. that was easy, I wanted a hard one JeeJee I understand You like riddles, but could You say something about Navillus? He has the biggest posts in the thread and there are couple of them. I'd like to know what do You think about him. Just re-read hist posts.. he's using lots of words to basically say kill lurkers. Complete null-read, everyone of any alignment will agree to this. When he starts contributing opinions on players, we'll see. So You admitted that Navillus is only posting fluff so he looks like he is contributing without contributing? "everyone of any alignment" part is budging me. Yep, but what else are you gonna do in the beginning? Everything starts from fluff. If fluff continues, it's a different story of course. P.S. would totally appreciate it if you stopped capitalizing 'you' On August 19 2011 09:44 RayzorFlash wrote:On August 19 2011 09:37 Kurumi wrote:On August 19 2011 09:34 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:32 ghrur wrote:On August 19 2011 09:31 JeeJee wrote:On August 19 2011 09:02 Kurumi wrote:
[quote]
See, I am like "ok guys if You're clever enough I won't troll!"
Then Mig fails his test.
Navillus.
Here's one for You!
If You answer this correctly, I won't troll this game.
You are in a room with three doors. The walls are sturdy and cold. You have full pack of dry lights. Scratching light against the pack will ignite it. How will You get out of here?
Door 1:
It has a very small window You can't see through, it's kind of foggy.
Door 2:
It has little opening in the lower bottom.
Door 3:
It's like one solid block. ooh ooh give me one!! There are 6 mafia in a town of thirty. Here is the discussion of the thirty people. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174Find all mafia. jackal, xfftc, poncho, foolishness, nard and palmar. that was easy, I wanted a hard one JeeJee I understand You like riddles, but could You say something about Navillus? He has the biggest posts in the thread and there are couple of them. I'd like to know what do You think about him. It does seem highly strange and suspicious that in a game full of lurkers, he's gone above and beyond to draw attention to himself... how so? It would be very easy for scum to abide by the "three post a day" criteria if they wanted to... I just don't think it would be that effective, because just based on the sheer number of new people, and the ratio of scum-to-townie, there are inevitably going to be a lot of townies in the lurker list, and wasting town KPs on them would only make it easier for the scum... What does this have to do with what I asked you? I asked you why you think navi's actions are highly strange and suspicious? And there shouldn't be "inevitably .. a lot of townies in the lurker list", why would there be? Are you going to lurk? And why did you call this game full of lurkers? Wtf this post just raised so many questions I said in my previous post how having us waste KPs on lurkers would further scum agenda, and thats why I think the actions seem suspicious, especially considering that we know there are a lot of new players here, and scum do too. New players generally have more a tendency to lurk, or become inactive, and thus, if we put together a lurker list, there WILL be a fairly large amount of people on it. This is especially true if they're townies or blues, as if they're mafia they will try their hardest to stay OFF that list... I think its NOT a good idea to just declare that everyone start killing off lurkers, unless there is actually a REASON to kill them, not just because they're lurking. Its a double-edged sword for sure, it does make the cultists come out and have to participate, which might reveal them, but it also runs the risk of killing a lot of townies... If we want to put together a lurker list, by all means do it, I just hope we exercise a little bit of restraint and use the kills given good reasons, since we don't want to make this EASIER for the mafia On August 20 2011 01:40 RayzorFlash wrote:Your post seemed like obvious scum to me, the scummiest post so far, and I will most likely be away for the rest of the day so I put in a vote against you... I'll check back later and see if I have to change it, but I doubt if I will :p On August 20 2011 13:32 RayzorFlash wrote:
I'm sticking with my vote on Sevryn unless something ridiculously obvious jumps out in the next 24 hours... I think by far that he has had the scummiest behaviour, both in terms of the vote, and then the defensive roll-back after he was called out on it...
I'm hesitant on Palmar just because he's been creating a far from ideal first Day in here... He contributed the main talking point sure, but his argument for that talking point was very weak... However, Dropbear has definitely acted a bit suspicious and got overly defensive, and the mayor idea seems scummy because he recommended himself for it right off the bat...
Those 3 seem like the major suspects this first day... I think (at least) ONE of Palmar or DropBear is definitely a scum, and if we start nearing a majority on either of them I will switch my vote from Sevryn and get him at a later date... I am most definitely voting for one of those 3 though On August 21 2011 04:55 RayzorFlash wrote:Supersoft, you seem to be trying wayyyy too hard to get Sevryn not lynched... Since the start you've tried putting up 3-4 different reasons to direct the vote away from Sevryn, first with a weak defense, then when called out on the defense being wishywashy, you quickly backtracked on it and said that you were just pointing out how anyone could have done that, and immediately started pressuring Xtfftc. While Xtfftc has definitely acted suspiciously, I see it as more suspicious that you (and Palmar, to a degree) were the two who along with Sevryn caused the pressure-vote issue at the start of the game anyway, and that you (and Palmar, to a degree  ) are working so hard to get attention away from Sevryn and on to other people. At this point, I would expect scum to just leave Sev to defend himself since they wouldnt want to get caught defending him, and try to either set-up a subsequent lynch away from them, or try to redirect attention away from him entirely. Town right now loses NOTHING by lynching Sev. If he flips red, we immediately know who to go after next, i.e. the people defending him, or the people trying to get someone else lynched first. If he flips green, we can target the ones who have most aggressively tried to get him lynched. Its a win-win situation.
Then, take a look at this:
+ Show Spoiler + On August 21 2011 06:02 RayzorFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 05:13 Sevryn wrote:Rayzorflash im calling you out. Most of his posts before I become the lynch target are speculation on what mafia would or would not want and i view this is as slightly scummy. Then he ninja votes on me and when called out On August 20 2011 01:40 RayzorFlash wrote:On August 20 2011 01:07 Sevryn wrote:
Nice stealth vote ray Your post seemed like obvious scum to me, the scummiest post so far, and I will most likely be away for the rest of the day so I put in a vote against you... I'll check back later and see if I have to change it, but I doubt if I will :p My stealth vote for you was what an actual pressure vote looks like. All of a sudden, the pressure on you made you get all defensive and even pull your vote off DropBear. I'd say it was quite successful in exposing scummy behavior.Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 05:13 Sevryn wrote:
Yes you do lose something you lose a townie when i flip green and going after the people who most aggressively tried to get me lynched is all WIFOM.
We lose a townie who has, for the entire first day contributed absolutely nothing towards discussion except a really scummy first accusation, and since then has just focused on defending himself? I don't think that's losing too much. (OOC: What does WIFOM mean??) Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 05:37 xtfftc wrote:
To be fair, I sort of agree with this. Kudos to Rayzor for pointing out supersoft's witchhunt but this statement was ridiculous. Mafia is unlikely to go so aggressively against a townie and by encouraging us to go after Sevryn's most vicious accusers in case he is innocent, he might secure another town lynch. Especially considering that Sevryn did get himself into a mess of his own... It's not like someone fabricated it all.
So, in case Sevryn turns out to be a townie after the lynch, Rayzor is a good lead, and if Sevryn is indeed mafia, Rayzor is probably clean.
Sure, I'll gladly take the fall if Sev proves to be green, but I don't think there was anything scummy at all about my post. I think it would be good leads to go after anyone aggressively pushing for Sev if he's green, and I know i'm included in that list :S.
Since day 1, Rayzorflash has gone under the radar. I didn't think much about this post until now, when I remembered Mig made a remark about Rayzor:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 21 2011 10:34 Mig wrote:
Meh did you guys see the post foolish quoted? This is rayzor's first ever game if he were mafia would he really put himself out there like that if he knew sevryn was green? Seems to be the opposite of how most new mafia players would play.
I am going to stick with sevryn.
Now, look at both of these posts together, and look at the parts I've highlighted in red.
My questions:
How does Rayzor know what a "real pressure vote" is, but not know what WIFOM means? He's showing knowledge of the game while simultaneously showing ignorance. It's like he's feigning ignorance, or just trying too hard. Both suggest he's probably mafia, and the simultaneity suggests he's being coached. If he was genuinely interested in contributing he could've googled WIFOM, he would've hit mafia wiki as the first hit.
He's fine with losing a townie who's contributed nothing day 1? Does anyone contribute significantly day 1?
He's fine with being on the hitlist when Sevryn flips green? This struck me as suspicious. If he's coached, he'll be led into doing things that confuse the town; things that we would not expect a new player to do. Clearly it's not expected for a new player, playing as scum, to put himself on the line.
This is where Mig comes in. Look at Mig's post: he points out exactly this. MIG IS A GOOD PLAYER. He wanted us to believe that, because Rayzor is a new player, it would be incredibly strange for him to say such things as mafia, and to therefore ignore him. Rayzor the next day, of course, went under the radar despite saying that he was willing to be on the chopping block for Sevryn's lynch.
BUT THEN, what if Mig is coaching Rayzor? Then, to me, it makes sense: Mig wants Rayzor to push a town image and say things "mafia would never say," particularly a NEW mafia player. And of course, none of us can deny that Mig is certainly capable of coaching Rayzor.
Now, Jackal dies. Mig has asked us, who would kill Jackal? The last person we'd expect to pin the blame on is Mig. Mig wants us to believe this. He's playing us, like he's played us for two days. He and Rayzor are scum.
Mig killed Jackal.
This is my opinion. Take of it what you want.
I already voted Mig. I am pushing for his lynch today.
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EPT
