EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXVII - Page 75
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Atreides-
United States103 Posts
| ||
|
sharky246
1197 Posts
| ||
|
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 26 2012 11:43 sharky246 wrote: it's funny, what actually happened was i was half-awake in the morning, doubting that thrawn would be mafia, but it was 7 am in the morning and i was too tired to get up and change my vote. FML. What happens if it becomes a draw (thrawn vs debears 4:4)? First person to get their 4th vote would be lynched. | ||
|
kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 26 2012 11:42 Atreides- wrote: yep, by far my favorite book series I've only read the first two. I liked the 2nd more than the first but the ending was just kinda.... depressing? Not really in a bad way... just ..... idk. Made me feel weird I've heard the ones by his son are ass, is it true? I know kevin j anderson wrote some of it and I read a lot of his star wars stuff in middle school and liked em. (not as much as the stuff by timothy zahn if you get the reference in my username) | ||
|
kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On September 26 2012 11:54 thrawn2112 wrote: I've only read the first two. I liked the 2nd more than the first but the ending was just kinda.... depressing? Not really in a bad way... just ..... idk. Made me feel weird I've heard the ones by his son are ass, is it true? I know kevin j anderson wrote some of it and I read a lot of his star wars stuff in middle school and liked em. (not as much as the stuff by timothy zahn if you get the reference in my username) the ending of the first one was pretty random and bad IMO. Why do all sci fi books have bad endings? | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
not all of em have bad endings..... i'd say michael crichton and asimov do a good job with their endings | ||
|
Atreides-
United States103 Posts
And yeah the ones by his son are supposed to be awful, I've heard that from everyone so I've decided not to touch them and spoil the series for myself. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'll do individual player commentary and game-summary tomorrow, but I just wanted to comment on some of the overall themes of the game. Mafia This was a really interesting game from the mafia perspective, and goes to show how much you can get away with as active mafia in newbie games. The mafia team meshed really well personality-wise and did a great job interacting with each other over the course of the game. They burned connections between them by accusing each other a healthy amount, and it worked really well (though you'll notice that they never followed through with any of this). The NK's were also very good all around - especially the SDM kill D1. While it was nice he turned up blue, killing the most coherent townie was a great idea, and the town really missed SDM's active presence in later days. This game really illustrates a key theme of mafia play. The goal as mafia isn't necessarily to blend into the town, but to confuse the town and destroy its ability to coordinate. All three mafia members were catchable, but they created enough chaos to never be under severe threat. Mafia really directed the suspicions of the town and created a very pro-mafia environment throughout the game. MVP: debears This was a tough decision, but debears improved really quickly as the game went on. His actions toward the later days (case on Thrawn especially) secured the mafia victory. The Thrawn case put the town under a spell that they never awoke in time from on the final day. Though as I've said, the mafia were definitely catchable. debears: His main slip was his early town-read on Thrawn: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548&user=282962 This is a really absurd thing to post this early in the game, and his confidence showed that he had extra-information. In addition, people should have questioned how he turned around and made Thrawn his main scumread later in the game. It made very little sense from a town-perspective, especially since so many people were suspicious of Thrawn around that time. Otherwise, he played very well (hence the MVP), his long posts were a great way to make it look like he was contributing. He blended in well until the very end, and by then it was far too late for town. Thrawn had a really excellent case on him at the end of the day: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=64#1275 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=65#1282 Kushm4sta: Kush played balls-to-the-wall and really took advantage of his meta to confuse the hell out of the town. There were however a couple of key differences between townie and scum kush: namely his overall mentality. In his previous town games, Kush is capable of getting angry when accused, but is overall quite peaceable and cooperative. He drops the occasional f-bomb, but it's rarely directly insulting to other players. In this game, Kush was just really really angry for no reason. He was dropping "fuck-you's" left and right and completely unprovoked. There's no reason for a town member to be this deliberately insulting to other townies (unless provoked of course) when they're trying to create a cooperative atmosphere. Kush sometimes even cursed out people who he thought were town, which is just not town motivated at all. Like check out how he defends himself in Newbie XXVI against Drazak, then compare it to his defenses here - Kush is a completely different person. But there was one slip that really stuck out to me in his filter: I don't want to lynch stutters because I think he's mafia. I want to lynch stutters because I think you are mafia thrawn. and fuck hapahuli if he thinks that's a scumtell. I.don't even care ...now townie kush is capable of lynching people he thinks could be bad townie (and I was convinced he was scum for it last game). However, this is just over the top and contains several instances of mafia-mentality. 1) Why is he deliberately not voting Thrawn? Lynching someone you think is bad town is one thing, but not lynching your top scumread is an entirely different matter. Not lynching your top scumread is directly against town objectives! 2) "I don't even care." He doesn't give a shit about who gets lynched. 3) Why is he doing all this in-spite of the postgame comments in Newbie XXVI? 4) Why is he so angry (again)? There's no reason for him to be this pissed off. There are more scumslips (read Jacob's case, lol), but his play goes to show how activity can make you look incredibly innocent despite your motives. Many townies had strong town reads on Kush throughout the game. Jacob: Jacob played a really solid game, but he had a habit of building large cases and never pushing them. For example, he builds a huge case on Kush: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=49#980 ...then drops it for some really sketchy reasons (because no one was following him and his scumread was defending himself...) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=50#988 Jacob really never seriously questions Kush, he kinda just accepts or doesn't address Kush's defenses. In addition, his initial case on Thrawn was really wonky: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=55#1097 He opens stating that he thinks Thrawn is town, then builds a case on him? Makes absolutely no sense. But Jacob's whole strategy this game seemed to be to build giant cases and see what stuck. He has huge cases against multiple players in the game that he never seriously pushed. He really tried to sow suspicion in the town, and it worked well. Also, all the mafia members basically scum-claimed at the end of the game, where Thrawn was pushing the debears case. Look how unwilling Kush and Jacob were to address the debears case. Kush tries to relentlessly tunnel Thrawn for sketchy reasons, while Jacob dances around with irrelevant comments without ever committing. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Town There's not much to say really. Town was very lurky and let mafia control and direct suspicions in the game. Never be afraid to post as town. Silence is a one-way ticket to attracting suspicion (see the drazak mislynch on D1). Townies should be active and never afraid to post their suspicions. I felt that some of the more vocal townies were very unfocused. There were several townies that were pursuing multiple scum-reads at once, and this is generally a bad idea. It becomes hard to keep track of your suspicions, and mafia can simply chose to agree with your bad reads. As general advice, pick one target and pursue them until you think they're scum or town. Having focus is important, or it's really easy to get lost in the game and create chaos in the thread. As a general scumhunting note, inconsistent behavior isn't necessarily a mafia trait. In fact, inconsistency can be very townie (townies are naturally suspicious having no information and all). When you build cases, you have to look for inconsistencies that show mafia-mentality. The mentality is the key part. As mentioned previously, Thrawn's case on debears did a great job showing his mafia-mentality, as opposed to simple inconsistency. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=64#1275 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=65#1282 I would highly suggest the town to read some of the guides before you sign up for your next game. In particular, Ver's guide should be mandatory reading and will vastly improve your town play: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 MVP: Thrawn Even though Thrawn was the SK, he did the most scumhunting out of any of the townies. Plus, he was forced to be pretty pro-town throughout the game due (and hunt mafia) to the early mislynches. He made the best case in the game (on debears) and was active in all phases of the game. Part 3 + 4 (individual player commentary + game summary) coming tonight or tomorrow | ||
|
JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
Lol at SK being town MVP | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 26 2012 12:48 JacobStrangelove wrote: Yeah Debears was def MVP, kush and I were just running around like chickens with our heads cut off confusing everybody. xD His case on thrawn almost convinced me thrawn was scum and considering it was his first game... Lol at SK being town MVP I considered giving it to SDM (he played a really good D1), but in a game where town get's flawless-victory'd, I had to give it to the player who got a case right for the right reasons. Debears improved so quickly this game - he went from an awful scumslip on D1 (Townie Thrawn case) to some very solid mafia play in the later stages of the game. Very impressive showing. | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
dandel lon when I claimed vig did you still think I was sk? | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
2) "I don't even care." He doesn't give a shit about who gets lynched. 3) Why is he doing all this in-spite of the postgame comments in Newbie XXVI? 4) Why is he so angry (again)? There's no reason for him to be this pissed off. 2 I didn't mean i don't care about who gets lynched. I meant I don't care about what you think. I know you think that's an impossibility. 3 I didn't read those. 4 My mood swings a lot regardless of if I'm scum I think. It's called marijuana and it's a drug I do a lot. Hapahauli, you were sure I was scum last game when I wasn't so yeah. kush 1 hapahauli 0 as far as im concerned. And you completely disregard our ownage busing strategy. | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On September 26 2012 13:29 kushm4sta wrote:4 My mood swings a lot regardless of if I'm scum I think. On August 24 2012 17:54 kushm4sta wrote: Wow guys everyone wants to kill me because I'm annoying or something and everyone hates me?? Reading this thread makes me want to cry. Honestly I will try harder but if you kill me let me just say that would be a huge mistake beacuse I am no ordinary townsperson. I am the jailkeeper so yeah you really shouldn't kill me. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Individual Players: Mafia debears: As mentioned previously, you played really well, especially considering it was your first game! You improved very quickly, and your case on Thrawn sealed the mafia victory. Post quality was very high for a mafia-player, and you blended in with the town very well because of it. Not much to say - well played! Jacob: Yeah Debears was def MVP, kush and I were just running around like chickens with our heads cut off confusing everybody. xD I wouldn't go that far, but there's some truth to that statement. Your activity was a huge plus, but you definitely seemed a bit too out of control at times, especially when accusing other players. When you build a case against another player, you have to push it. You got a bit wild spreading suspicion on other players and never really followed-through with your cases. You will not be able to get away with this in regular games - it is a huge scumtell. You have to be more mindful of the "story" you're trying to tell. Really try to think what you'd do as town and follow a townie thought process. Making multiple big cases and not pursuing them is the opposite of that. Kush: Very ballsy play, and I really enjoyed your playstyle this game. However, you will not be able to get away with this in regular games. The only reason people thought you were town is due to the amount of people who played with you in XXVI - if you're not more mindful of your posting in normal games, you'll get lynched very quickly. DarthPunk wasn't kidding when he made those comments in the XXVIII thread. As a general note for both your town and scum play, you need to think more before you post (As a side note, I definetely don't follow my own advice as much as I should tbh). Really think about what you're trying to accomplish with every post. Your activity is great, but there are certain things (lynching for information, not lynching your top scumread, etc) that are completely unnecessary for you to write as either alignment. You don't need to post every single one of your thoughts - post what you need to in order to fulfill your objectives. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 26 2012 13:29 kushm4sta wrote: Wow I feel like hapahauli just accused me of being scum now I have to defend. 2 I didn't mean i don't care about who gets lynched. I meant I don't care about what you think. I know you think that's an impossibility. 3 I didn't read those. 4 My mood swings a lot regardless of if I'm scum I think. It's called marijuana and it's a drug I do a lot. Hapahauli, you were sure I was scum last game when I wasn't so yeah. kush 1 hapahauli 0 as far as im concerned. And you completely disregard our ownage busing strategy. Well I'm just telling you what I picked up on. Feel free to use or discard my advice. As for your other game, I will admit that I was completely wrong with my read, but I'm slowly starting to realize why. Townies are capable of voting for unconventional reasons, and I didn't give enough credit to that. However, not voting for your top scumread is a pretty big deal and shows very clear mafia-mentality. Also, weed shouldn't make you angry o_O EDIT: Oh, I didn't mean to criticize your play or anything - I apologize if it came across that way. These are post-game comments for everyone, and looking at the slips from all three scumplayers are pretty educational for all the players in the game. | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
My very first fucking post in mafia ever was a ridiculous essay about the threat of serial killers: On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote: Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player. If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK. Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. so painful to read | ||
| ||
